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Edward
What to do when the fixer screws you over.

First run of a new game. We are in Perth, Western Australia.

My fixer sends me a message asking me to pull together a teem for a trip north along the coast to render magical healing to a injured dragon. I just met an otaku (pc) so I have him do a matrix search to find me local runners we can use. We get a mouse shaman and a driver (other PCs) I make initial contact with them.

I then go to my fixer (with the otaku because it is his fixer to) and he is very abrasive. He demands that I do this job for him and acts like I should not need any real money. He says that he will cover expenses but they had better not be unreasonable and makes very thinly veiled threats against me if I don’t do the job. And vague illusions to the possibility of there being somebody up there that will give me another job.

So I am left for no guarantied payment taking responsibility for the costs of the run myself. The run involves spending 2-3 days in mana storm country and dealing with a dragon. His idea of compensation for this is the possibility that there is a job waiting for me up there but I am thinking I don’t necessarily want it the way this guy operates.

Have I been spoiled in pervious games with fixers that at least nominally take care of there runners (not do anything to deliberately piss them off) or is this kind of drec normal. If it doesn’t change soon I am thinking I tell my other contacts I am looking for a new fixer/agent to work with in spit of the risks inherent to letting information roam that freely.

Edward
FrostyNSO
Does this fixer belong to a new GM?

Sounds like an A-hole. Give the job a shot but make "contingency plans". I.E. How to get you out safely if it's a bust, and how to take care of the fixer who screwed you over, whether you made it out or not.
Backgammon
Injured dragon, eh? So maybe it's just kinda lying there... Bring C4. Blow up the dragon, and mail the head to the fixer. That'll teach him not to fuck with you.
Quix
If the dragon is so f'ed up that it needs your help healing itself then why not haggle with it? Or since I would assume the dragon contacted your fixer you can always try to convince the dragon to give up on that fixer. That should hurt the bad fixer's buisness.
KillaJ
Here are a few ideas to get you started... devil.gif
Kagetenshi
Levitate in the center of a large room. Leave the door unlocked, and just leave them hanging. Check on them every so often so they don't throw their shoe away from the door and slowly float to it.

If you can afford to leave them there for a week or more, go for it. Maybe a tiny drop of water from the ceiling onto their head so they have to twist to get any, and it hits them regardless.

If you've got the cash to blow and the mage-muscle, insert monowire at various points in the person's arms and legs and then heal the wounds closed. Then tell them that they have to be extremely still or they'll remove some of their own limbs.

~J
Kanada Ten
I wouldn't take the job without enough cash up front to pay the hired hands especially after being threatened. If the fixer is a contact, you should be able to ask the GM about previous experiences with him; if not, then have the otaku do some deep digging. If you can find something to hold over his head, or he is know for a bad bark but good word, then go ahead with the job (provided you get enough to pay the Shaman and Driver).
Bigity
If it's a new GM, maybe the guy just doesn't know how to subtly hint to the players that he really really wants you to take the job and not walk.

I know I've lost game sessions to some player getting a hair up his butt and walking away. biggrin.gif
Tanka
QUOTE (Bigity)
If it's a new GM, maybe the guy just doesn't know how to subtly hint to the players that he really really wants you to take the job and not walk.

I know I've lost game sessions to some player getting a hair up his butt and walking away. biggrin.gif

Sometimes it's the character. Sometimes it really is the GM.

If it's a new GM, explain to him/her about proper hiring techniques and what can happen to those who threaten runners. If he/she still doesn't get it, go into pure character and do what they would do (which is probably walk right then and there, at least).

Continue ad nauseum. If the GM never gets it, politely ask them to not go about hiring that way, or politely tell them that you have a new GM and that they should consider playing for a while before GMing again.
BitBasher
Turn down the run. It's setting off my bullshit alert from an IC point of view.

1) Johnsons are coming to you for a service, abrasive johnsons that dont want to pay runners are amateurs, shills or plants.

2) You Shadowrun to get paid. If you dont get paid, you DONT SHADOWRUN FOR THIS ASSHAT.

3) Rule three here, just like on the streets is "Never deal with a dragon". There's a reason for that. It's not just hyperbole.

3) If there is an injured dragon theres no reason on god's green earth for any healing to happen this way. This smells like a setup, and a very implausible one.

4) You Shadowrun to get paid. If you dont get paid, you DONT SHADOWRUN FOR THIS ASSHAT.

5) did I mention the pay?

----------------------
Just walk away.
Kagetenshi
Small cuts, warm bath. Let him bleed out significantly. You know how you feel after you've given blood? Keep him like that for a few days, maybe longer.

Incidentally, never use my techniques on someone you're going to leave alive. They don't foster goodwill.

~J
FrostyNSO
paralyze his ass.

throw him in a tub.

turn on faucet to slow drip.

let him watch as it slowly slowly fills up and eventually drowns him.
BitBasher
anyone here notice that the Johnson hasn't even screwed him yet? He's screwed himself for taking a crap job.

If someone comes up to you and says "hey, do something for me, and I may think of paying you, but maybe not" You say no.
Bob the Ninja
Not just no--Hell no!
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (BitBasher)
anyone here notice that the Johnson hasn't even screwed him yet? He's screwed himself for taking a crap job.

If someone comes up to you and says "hey, do something for me, and I may think of paying you, but maybe not" You say no.

I noticed. I'm just giving suggestions for when they don't spot it beforehand smile.gif

~J
Deacon
QUOTE (Edward)
My fixer sends me a message asking me to pull together a teem for a trip north along the coast to render magical healing to a injured dragon. [...]
So I am left for no guarantied payment taking responsibility for the costs of the run myself. The run involves spending 2-3 days in mana storm country and dealing with a dragon. His idea of compensation for this is the possibility that there is a job waiting for me up there but I am thinking I donít necessarily want it the way this guy operates.

Injured dragon that can't heal itself? There's your payment, right there. You'd probably be able to make more money off the carcass of the dragon than this fixer will ever see in his lifetime. Dragon bodily fluids, dragon scales, dragon hide, dragon bones, dragon muscle, dragon brain tissue... Good lord, you're set for life, man! Get up there and get that dragon! smile.gif

Actually this sounds like a GM who doesn't quite know what he's doing. You might want to sit down before the next game session and make it clear to the GM that he's essentially sending you to heal what would be millions of nuyen worth of telesma. If you had decided to take the fast cash, the campaign would be over... your characters are now living on easy street. New campaign.

Kincaid
I agree that this entire scenario smacks of GM problems rather than Fixer problems. However, if the GM actually has some interesting plot twists in mind, I would just turn down the job. Generally, when I GM and the group has established itself and everyone is comfortable with the rules I'll toss in a job offer that the players are supposed to turn down (there will be clues about this, of course). Surviving on the streets takes enough smarts to know when to fold 'em.
Johnson
New Campaign, Heal a Dragon. IS your Fixer that confident? Personally if I was some Cybermacy Psycho, Yea maybe.

Rule One. Never deal with a Dragon.
Rule Two. Never deal with those who know a Dragon.


If some fixer who is not a reputable contact on my address book or checks out with a friend of a friend.
I will spend my hard earned Nuyen and put a contract on his head.

Favour for a friend well, I could go the route but he would have to be my eyes on the back of my head. He would tell me everything I need to know. The first signs of a Dead Rat, he will have a bullet with his name on it.

Get details negotiate and interrogate his answers. VSA works well if you have the interrogation skill or cyberware.

Reason for his arrogance maybe he doesn't want you to do the run, but he is being black mailed for some thing shadey. Hence the arrogance.

Maybe his life has been threatened and you are the Target.
Backgammon
I still think you should run with it, but totally screw over your fixer. I also smell the stink of a bad GM, so use this run as a lesson to him. Hopefully, he'll realise something. Then you can go back and say that run never happened, just use it as a learning experience.

But Blow up the dragon and sell his parts. I just can't get the image of a dragon blowing up out of my head. Anyone ever see that clip of a contractor that decided to blow up a beached whale rather than drag the body away? Man, C4 + Dragon = great (and profitable) party.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Backgammon)
I still think you should run with it, but totally screw over your fixer. I also smell the stink of a bad GM, so use this run as a lesson to him. Hopefully, he'll realise something. Then you can go back and say that run never happened, just use it as a learning experience.

But Blow up the dragon and sell his parts. I just can't get the image of a dragon blowing up out of my head. Anyone ever see that clip of a contractor that decided to blow up a beached whale rather than drag the body away? Man, C4 + Dragon = great (and profitable) party.

While the profit in selling dragon parts is absurdly high, anyone who sells dragon parts is not going to have a long life-span. practically every dragon on Earth would be happy to eat a Dragonslayer, especially one who sells the organs of his victims. The GM have to house rule a new level of the Hunted flaw to represent how completely and totaly dead the PCs involved are.

There's also one other thing to consider, there is a wounded Dragon in a Mana Storm. Considering how severe his wounds must to be, he probably can't communicate himself, which would mean someone hired the fixer for him. It could be a good samaritan, but that is unlikely. On the other hand, it could be whoever sent the dragon into danger in the first place. Its not a good idea to anger dragons. It is certainly not a good idea to anger someone who gives orders to dragons.

My assumption is that the GM is trying to set up an fairly intricate plot. Weather the fixer's atitude is bad GMing or good RPing I won't judge without further information. Both are possible.
Tanka
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
While the profit in selling dragon parts is absurdly high, anyone who sells dragon parts is not going to have a long life-span. practically every dragon on Earth would be happy to eat a Dragonslayer, especially one who sells the organs of his victims. The GM have to house rule a new level of the Hunted flaw to represent how completely and totaly dead the PCs involved are.

There's also one other thing to consider, there is a wounded Dragon in a Mana Storm. Considering how severe his wounds must to be, he probably can't communicate himself, which would mean someone hired the fixer for him. It could be a good samaritan, but that is unlikely. On the other hand, it could be whoever sent the dragon into danger in the first place. Its not a good idea to anger dragons. It is certainly not a good idea to anger someone who gives orders to dragons.

My assumption is that the GM is trying to set up an fairly intricate plot. Weather the fixer's atitude is bad GMing or good RPing I won't judge without further information. Both are possible.

Good call on the Hunted bit. The moment your name gets out about selling Dragon bits and pieces, you're dead. Even if you fence it first. The fencer will spill everything to a Dragon. The fencer dies, you die, your family dies, your dog dies, your pet iguana dies, your favorite bar blows up, your best friends all die, so on and so forth.

They say to "Never deal with a Dragon," and I'm pretty sure they aren't joking.
Kagetenshi
I was going to suggest that earlier, but the existence of the module Dragon Hunt pretty much makes it clear it isnít true.

~J
Tanka
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
I was going to suggest that earlier, but the existence of the module Dragon Hunt pretty much makes it clear it isnít true.

~J

Consider this: I have three modules, none of which are Dragon Hunt. nyahnyah.gif

(Basically, I don't count most modules. They're silly.)
BitBasher
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
I was going to suggest that earlier, but the existence of the module Dragon Hunt pretty much makes it clear it isnít true.

~J

And no offense to anyone here that was involved in writing Dragon Hunt, but it was the most implausible silly module ever. It was the SR equivalent of an 80's B movie.
Kagetenshi
I wouldnít know; Iíve never read it grinbig.gif

~J
Backgammon
I don't believe it'd be that bad for a dragon. A Great, yes definatly. An influential Adult, indeed also. But any Dragon that is in a situation that needs a human fixer to hire 4 goons to come by and cast pitiful human Force < 6 Heal on it, is a pretty silly dragon who no one would be sad to see gone. I really don't think anyone (or is that anything) would get off it's lazy dragon ass to have killed these runners. Besides, you don't have to broadcast it to the world. Anyone buying dragon bits similarly doesn't want to make too much noise about it.
Puck Wildhorse, M.D.
Question: What do you do when the fixer screws you over?

Answer: Assuming you survive the betrayal, don't work with that fixer any more. This may be difficult to do if you are just starting out, but the important thing to consider is the health and well-being of you and your team. While vengeance has it's place, consider that a fixer is connected to a lot of people. Do him wrong and you may inherit a world of hurt.

But, based on what you said, your fixer hasn't screwed you. Sure, he has treated you poorly. He has told you what to do but not offered any sure payment. This isn't necessarily bad . . . if could just be part of the story that the GM is creating.

Consider this, you are new characters starting a new campaign. You aren't yet established in the Shadowrun community. You don't have much of a reputation yet. Your fixer is doing you a favor by giving you a job. He probably has other, more established assets he could turn to. Instead, he's throwing you a bone, seeing what you can do. If you do well, he'll have more respect for you and more jobs will come your way.

It's just my opinion, but starting characters with no karma shouldn't expect to be respected by other people in the shadows. You may have written a killer back story, you may have min/maxed your skills and attributes. To most people you meet, none of that matters. You're starting a new job where respect is earned by performance. So get out there and perform a bit.
Herald of Verjigorm
Big Green and Vicious might see it as enough of a reason to take the 9 seconds to slaughter you next time he is within a minutes flight of where you are.
Kagetenshi
Itís possible, but then it comes down to what was discussed in the ďKilling a GreatĒ thread: does Vast Green hunt dragonkillers in general, or was there a specific dragon (or specific dragons) who got killed that heís avenging?

~J
Herald of Verjigorm
The more important question is "do you want to test that question?"

If you did something grotesque enough to get the attention of any great dragon, they may not go out of their way, but when you are in their path...
Backgammon
That could be said even if you didn't do anything. A GD wouldn't think twice about killing anyone, period. The fact he's eating you might just be a coincidence, he might not even know you killed a dragon. So, does blowing up a pathetic wounded dragon in a comical fashion increase by a noticeable factor your odds of getting killed by another dragon? I submit that it does not.
Kanada Ten
On the other hand, helping a dragon from mortal danger will likely be worth more than the millions of nuyen you could hope to make selling its body as spare parts.

If this is a new GM do not "teach him a lesson." The players and GM must work together to craft the story, and one cannot teach by being a bad player. Things only get better if you express your concerns and give feedback. If he or she doesn't listen, then it's time to think about getting out.
Kagetenshi
Dragons are magical.

Dragons fight ALL the time.

The purpose of the dragon is to flip out and eat people.

~J
BitBasher
Once, in this town, some dude in a diner dropped his spoon and the dragon flipped out.... biggrin.gif
Tanka
...I hate you two so much...

(Well, not really. Just that fragging website.)
Backgammon
rotfl.gif rotfl.gif rotfl.gif
Kremlin KOA
Hey a little clarification here, I'm the guy playing the Otaku. cool.gif

Firstly, I know the GM for this game and he wasn't feeling well that day, and that sometimes makes his NPCs grouchy... some would call this bad Gming, but the quality of plot and NPC interaction over all more than makes up for this with this GM.

Also he was going for a Capone motif with the fixer... I will be talking to the GM later this week and mentioning the proverbial "velvet glove" to him.

What worries me is the other players though (not edward) one is a bloody race car driver eek.gif , and the other is deluded ("I'm not a shadowrunner, I just do favors for money."). we are getting a fifth that looks good though.

Reason My char took job are threefold... all shadowruns that the johnson does not explicitly order otherwise, are opportunities to score paydata... and this fixer is my usual paydata fence. nuyen.gif nuyen.gif nuyen.gif

Also the dragon is a young adult (barely out of wyvern stage) who is not an experienced spellcaster yet and thus cannot cast heal on self... I figure dragon owing us favor is definately a good thing, as long as we don't push it biggrin.gif rotfl.gif grinbig.gif
Kagetenshi
First off, dragons are innately magical and require no training to cast magic. Second, I doubt you're going to get much paydata off of this one wink.gif

~J
Kanada Ten
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Sep 14 2004, 06:09 PM)
First off, dragons are innately magical and require no training to cast magic.

Apparently not in his GM's world. [edit] And really, the only innate spell they know is Flamethrower, IIRC.

QUOTE
Second, I doubt you're going to get much paydata off of this one

And if they don't do the job, most likely not through that fixer ever again.

If the Otaku knows the fixer, then I don't see any reason not to take the job.
Edward
Never deal with a dragon may be the truism of the time but there are actually hire rules that lead to it.

Never be the target of an annoyed dragon. Is the ultimate aim. To this end

Never annoy a dragon. Never being the presence of an annoyed dragon, never annoy anybody with control over dragons, never be known to an annoyed dragon, never be known to a dragon. This is rufly the order of import. Failing to accept this job would likely break all of them. taking it only breaks numbers 2 and 5.

Anybody that can’t come up with “never deal in dragon” themselves deserves a
Darwin award.

My current hope is that the fixer was having a bad day. I may be new to the shadows but I am professional and expect to be treated as such. Quality of GMing aside in character a professional (as in ex cop level of professionalism) expects to be treated as such and being told pull together a teem for a job and then later told there was no guarantied money in it. I should have played my other character concept. He would have don’t this for sh** and giggles but he said that character wasn’t professional enough

Pay data related to the job is not going to be forthcoming but our good (and munched) otaku sow fit to run overwatch from LEO. The satellite systems had something useful. This boy hacks red average systems on the flimsiest pretence and scans them for pay data while he is there.

Edward
Kremlin KOA
Edward I am not munched... yet... otaku are difficult to munch for the simple reason that they always start with 5000 nuyen.gif Munching an otaku would require either cannibalism nyahnyah.gif or getting a gm to allow you to be tribless and buy resources... (neither of which is condoned in my games... although I have run a game with a cannibal PC (not a ghoul either) the party rigger had a "brake failure" (his term, not mine) end of cannibal. grinbig.gif biggrin.gif grinbig.gif biggrin.gif
Edward
On reflection I could have been wrong.

When hacking the satellites he went threw without taking any damage or even encountering damaging IC but one more point of security tally would have had pasiv alert, and he still didn’t know about the scout IC looking for him and he wants to be in the system for several more hours watching us.

Edward
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
First off, dragons are innately magical and require no training to cast magic. Second, I doubt you're going to get much paydata off of this one wink.gif

~J

Dragon's need no training to cast spells, knowing spells to cast is a different matter entirely. Dragon's can manipulate astral energy as easily s a human can breath, but they don't automaticly know what patterns to weave to cause a particular effect.
It doesn't matter how powerful a magician you are if you don't know th spell that you want to cast.
tjn
QUOTE (Edward)
but he said that character wasnít professional enough

That's rather ironic in light of how he's portraying the fixer.

As others have said, the character should or should have walked away. No one runs for free. Especially when the Johnson starts making threats for no reason.

But in addition, as a player, you should pull the GM aside and remind him that the fixer wasn't professional in the least bit and that he needs to come at least half way and not force the PC's to accept the run.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Kremlin KOA)
Edward I am not munched... yet... otaku are difficult to munch for the simple reason that they always start with 5000 nuyen.gif Munching an otaku would require either cannibalism nyahnyah.gif or getting a gm to allow you to be tribless and buy resources... (neither of which is condoned in my games...

This is very much untrue. With Otaku, you can do plenty of munching before getting nuyen.

~J
BitBasher
Where is this Dragon's Great Dragon Mentor, which all young and immature dragons have. The one that protects them and teaches them all these things before he goes into the world on his own?
Kanada Ten
QUOTE (BitBasher)
Where is this Dragon's Great Dragon Mentor, which all young and immature dragons have. The one that protects them and teaches them all these things before he goes into the world on his own?

The mentor might be the fixer for all we know - not to mention this dragon might be trapped in the cocoon between wyvern and adult making the mentor nervous about rescuing it and thus degrading it.

On the subject of the fixer, if you had to choose between a smooth talking snake or a butthead but honest, which do you take? I don't agree with the professional criminals ideology, really; it just isn't common. The chance of finding someone who is both polite and trustworthy shouldn't be easy; as a criminal you take what you get until you can find better, in game preferably.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
On the subject of the fixer, if you had to choose between a smooth talking snake or a butthead but honest, which do you take?

Smooth-talking snake. Honesty's unfamiliar. Makes me nervous.

~J
BitBasher
QUOTE
The mentor might be the fixer for all we know - not to mention this dragon might be trapped in the cocoon between wyvern and adult making the mentor nervous about rescuing it and thus degrading it.
I'd have to think that being rescued by your dinner is FAR more degrading wink.gif
grendel
QUOTE
Smooth-talking snake. Honesty's unfamiliar. Makes me nervous.


The question isn't "Are you paranoid?" It's "Are you paranoid enough?"
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