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Kremlin KOA
In Target: Awakened lands, The Koradji are listed as selling Magical compounds...

how much would you charge for them in your games, and would you make it cheaper if they were "past the use by date"

either overall or in a drug by drug basis please...
GenoSicK
cost : services
avaibility : depends on what you are
outback index : a lot more
spotlite
:brief thread hijack. Sorry, its an ideal place for it and will probably interest the original poster. I'll just get on with it:

What do people think about a player character being able to make these things? There's a PC in my group who has the ability to make them. He's from a tribe in a swamp and I've let them have the ability to make three of the compounds (animal tongue, concealment/confusion and the immunity to toxins one), and since he's the now-exiled tribal shaman, it makes sense that he can make them. Naturally the ingredients are all found in the swamp and require rituals and what not, and at the moment he can only make the ones his tribe can, but undoubtedly at some point he's going to want to learn more. What do people think of letting characters make this kind of stuff? Anyone want to hazard a go at skills, target numbers and tests and the like?

Oh, and fwiw, and just so its not a total thread hijack, I agree with GenoSicK. That's pretty much going to apply to buying any of the compounds from anywhere. There are no prices.
Kremlin KOA
no probs on the thread hijack, IMHO it is inferred that such compound knowledge would require a metamagic but apart from that I would allow appropriate PCs to be allowed to make them...

also with the service answers, I take it then that you goys ignore the part where it says that Aussie Koradji sell that stuff to the Triads
spotlite
I do beleive its an IC document. So you can ignore it if you want. Personally, i just missed it, but I can't see the triads as a worldwide syndicate buying it. Its probably one guy local to Oz who performed some service and gets the stuff from his contact in one tribe which he then sells on to other triads when they need it for specific tasks. Some of it might make it across the world, but I would think for special jobs more than trade. I doubt its done in any large quantities either. Just in my opinion. As I say, its an IC document I think. It could be total fabrication.
Kremlin KOA
It is in the IC section but the reference shows that some but not all tribes sell for cash, so you would say only within OZ and even then probably need aboriginal contact... next question, would the price, either in cash, gear, or service, be cheaper for stuff that is passed the "use by" date and only produces the side effects?
Edward
Would you like to tell them the effect of the one your wanting.

Edward
Kremlin KOA
Edward, no fun. besides I am curious as to them all, I can find uses for all the expired compounds, not just Altyerre
spotlite
I do think that if you were able to actually purchase them with nuyen, the price would be absolutely exhorbitant, and I think it would be considerably more than 5K. If you somehow got it from a talismonger, he'll have had to make certain promises to the person he got it off, or himself paid a hideous monetary cost. Probably to the extent that he'd only sell to someone he knew very very well anyway. I think you're far more likely to need to track down a tribe that makes them, such as the anazasi in the mojave, and beg/plead/pay through the nose/perform some kind of service.

In other words, its GMs discretion. The Gm may decide that nowhere on earth sells them as a commodity, but that it might actually be fairly easy to by modest quantities if you can find the right tribe. I certainly wouldn't rule out ever being able to get hold of them, but like any other magical stuff you just can't mass produce it in enough quantities to sell anywhere but a very few specific places or in a commercially (read - corporate, marketable, and large amounts of profit) viable way. You can make a huge profit margin, true, but you can't make enough individual units to sell to make it worthwhile committing your normal corporate resources to it. In fact, I would've thought only a small independent and highly focussed talismonger would even be able to make an attempt at making a business out of it. The materials are probably impossible to get hold of for most places.

Take the Anasazi, specifically Desert Flower - the name gives it away, the stuff comes from the desert. Not exactly known for its abundance of life or accessibility, is it? If you figure all the Anasazi stuff comes from the desert, then its no wonder they won't sell it is it? They're going to need it for the tribe.
Botch
QUOTE
Take the Anasazi, specifically Desert Flower - the name gives it away, the stuff comes from the desert. Not exactly known for its abundance of life or accessibility, is it? If you figure all the Anasazi stuff comes from the desert, then its no wonder they won't sell it is it? They're going to need it for the tribe.


But, which would the tribe prefer. Sole-access to a very valuable, restricted resource that only the has limited application to tribal survivability as a whole or a large cash injection to the tribal coffers?
spotlite
The anazasi would almost certainly prefer goods if they were going to trade anything - they're a nomadic desert tribe, they have little use for cred the vast majority of the time. While I can see an especially prudent tribe reasoning that having a ton of cash might be useful those few times they need it, they might as equally reason that the money won't actually do anything for them in their day to day lives. And when you live in the mojave desert, day to day is pretty much all you have!

The compounds on the other hand could become not only useful but essential to survival very very quickly, and not having any in reserve could make them nervous to say the least, and get them all killed at worst. Which is why I'd think you'd have to give them goods or perform a service. Water is nearly always good, but they have shaman - i think they probably have all the water and food they need via spells and spirits.

vehicle spares and fuel, however... The few pictures I've seen have them jaunting about the desert in cobbled together off roaders. Vehicle parts and fuel might be well up their street! For enough good quality parts gratis, I can see them offering to part with a couple of doses of something maybe.

:edit: Actually, thinking about it, you could well be able to bribe with cash a single tribesmember who's maybe unhappy with his lot to steal some for you. But that brings its own problems!
Botch
I wonder why tribal groups are thought incapable of using shops? Lug all those trade goods around for when they're necessary or have a tribal elder carry a credstick?

Whilst the bulk of interaction with outsiders might be done on a barter/trade system there is always a need a cash injection. Plus, there is the cheesecake arguement.
spotlite
Its not that they're incapable of using shops! I'm not saying they aren't aware of the value of money. I'm saying they have little use for it. The descriptions in the CalFree book don't lend much in the way of evidence to say they have anything at all to do with 'civilised' society except barter or the occasional raid. There's not a lot of data to be fair though - they may well have some secret bank accounts and triad contacts for all I know. But I don't think it likely, there's no hint of that. They guard their secrets jealously and don't like people trespassing in their desert, especially if they mean harm. But they scavenge from the various desert casualties they come across, which is where they get their stuff from. Vehicle parts as oppose to cash are more useful and valuable to them because with cash, sure they can go buy some really nice vehicles, but that means actually going to a city, finding some, buying them, getting them back to the desert and then getting used to them - half the vehicles are probably living spaces i would imagine, it would make sense. Vehicle parts and spares means keeping the vehicles they already have repairing the ones that are broken, saving the need to do what they are obviously uncomfortable about doing - having contact with outsiders.

They were just an example. No reason to think there might not be any tribes out there at all who would trade the stuff for cash, but I'd say if they are specifically scarce in the books, then there's probably a reason. The recipes are secret and closely guarded, but they will probably (precisely because they are NOT ignorant savages) be aware its possible someone could reverse engineer them, and so be careful who they sell them to. A shaman willing to sell them for something as crass as profit is going to be rare - though again, not impossible depending on the circumstances. Now, if a mage got hold of them and was able to figure out how they were made, well, depending entirely on the mage the results could be totally different. But they still have to get the ingredients even assuming they've got the kit to reverse engineer it. A corp lab probably could, and if they can get samples they can mass produce it as far as you can mass produce anything like that, which probably wouldn't be much.

BUT you'd still run into the problem that in the quantities you produce you can't base as much of a successful (read, profitable) enterprise on it as you could by simply using the produce to supplement your special forces cadre. So you still couldn't buy it. Honestly, I think you really would have to roleplay your way into possession of some. Part of your deal may include money, but you aren't ever going to walk into a shop and just buy four doses of Altyerre.
Kremlin KOA
So fresh stuff almost not for sale, what abpt the expired stuff... My practcal joker side must know.
Edward
If they want goods what value of goods? I can see them saying “yes you can have some. Hear is a shopping list” of cause being a nomadic tribe the goods will need to be easily transported so delivery wont be to difficult.

Also note that aboriginals now appreciate the value of money. The triable elders of the 2060s will have been young adults when the tribes returned to there nomadic lifestyles. It would be inconceivable that a tribe would not carry enough cash or cred to purchase food where it required. I would say there ready cash would amount to at least a week’s food for the tribe (including the value of water). Of cause that is nothing compared to the value of awakened compounds.

For those that are interested goods they would want would include high capacity light water filters, weapons, vehicles and parts, water, luxury foods (special treat items), survival gear in general, radio coms equipment. Any tribe that has completely rejected such things will require a service IFF they are willing to talk to you.

The idea you preposed to me (using the expired compound that inflicts D stun no save to take a toxic shaman for the draco foundation) would be relatively easy. Just find a tribe that is having difficulties with a toxic shaman and can provide you with the compound for that specific purpose. If they still charge you it wont be much.

Edward
Botch
They are aware of value and weight. I spent 6 months exploring the outback in a 22yr old Volvo 244DL. I had a few essential parts in the car, but the other parts I needed had to be sourced at outback garages. These were isolated places and an unusual car, so how did I get the parts?

Plastic and Air Freight.

Cheescake only exists because milk goes off, it is a practical way of maintaining the usefulness of important resources. The awakened resources that the tribes have is a degrading material. Sure, tribe first, but then what do you do with a glut or soon to expire materials? Transform them into a longer lasting resource, money. It has no appreciable weight, does not rot, takes up no space and requires no special storage. How useful is money is a nomadic tribal people? Internally, not much, externally, very.

Sure knowing when to approach the tribe, how and where the contact points are requires plot hooks/RP, but when they do meet there would be no problem playing with cert. cred. although good roleplaying of tasks should allow the runners to pay less "cost". If the materials are expensive, then the size of task would be huge. Which is the lesser of 2 evils? Strangers on your lands for an extended period or having to carry a few cred sticks which can be exchanged at a later date for resources that are required then and there?


spotlite
I understand. I agree with you to an extent. In terms of value of goods, I think for desert tribes in the 2060s who face a lot more varieties of dangers than such tribes do now, it would be a question of need on both sides rather than intrinsic monetary value. The tribe is aware of what their potions are worth, certainly, and I'm not denying they couldn't use cred. But offering them hundreds of thousands of nuyen (say) would be as likely to get you somewhere as offering maybe twenty grand in terms of whether they accept it if instead they can see that you have a bunch of ammo and ultra high quality vehicle BR kit stashed away in your ride which they can use right away and in the case of the toolkit, keep using indefinately.

All I'm saying (probably badly) is that they would be more likely predisposed to accepting useful goods, if you have them, than a big stack of cred. If you don't have them, but DO have a big bag of cred, then you can probably expect to get fleeced. Ah! that's a better way of putting it:

I think you would be more likely to get a better or more honest deal with goods than you would with cash. That's what I'm getting at!
Edward
And if you have a moderate pile of cred and can wait a few days they will probably tell you to go and fetch stuff they would have trouble buying.

If the tribe already has enough cred to by its normal operating assets twice (a few vehicles, fuel, outback survival equipment such as this tribe uses) thay are unlikely to take cred at all. They have more than they could possibly use in the foreseeable future. Then they will be asking for difficult to arrange goods or a service.

Edward
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