Full Version: SR4
I was sitting back and feeling quit satisfied at the plump stack of Shadowrun books I have amassed and it occured to me, that if and when SR4 comes out, I have to start collecting all over again. Thinking back on the time cycle, it seems about time for a new edition, but man that would really blow. I am all for new rules and updates, but not for throwing down even more money on poorly bound SR books. Hopefully with the State of the Art books, they will hold off on SR4 for a while!!!
I concur. The problem with separating the fluff from the crunch in the way SR does is that every time a new edition rocks around, the previous edition is near-useless as edition changes are largely rules-changes.
Threaten Wizkids! If it ain't broke, don't screw my wallet!
Threaten Wizkids! If it ain't broke, don't screw my wallet!
Didn't this just come up somewhere else a little while ago (I could be mistaken, I've been perusing through the board archives the past few days)? For some reason, I remember 2010 being stated as the date most likely for a 4th Edition to surface. As is, currently I've heard nothing about any plans for it.
I remember a discussion when 2007 was floated as a "not unreasonable" date, but I somehow doubt that they're giving it too much thought until they're certain they've got the book releases back on schedule.
~J
~J
SR4 will not be released until 2013 so they can properly adjust the magic rules to better fit reality. Nothing else will be changed.
Come to think of it, I have noticed the beginnings of an exponential increase in the number of Native Americans…
~J
~J
Log onto Astral Plane
Target: Background Count
Spirit Aid: Spirit Guide
Action: Complex
The operation allows magikers to access the Astral Plane. Summoning a Spirit Guide lowers the target number by its force. Once on the Astral Plane, a magiker can now perform any actions found in the astral section of Magic V4.0 page 129848, subsection A.
Target: Background Count
Spirit Aid: Spirit Guide
Action: Complex
The operation allows magikers to access the Astral Plane. Summoning a Spirit Guide lowers the target number by its force. Once on the Astral Plane, a magiker can now perform any actions found in the astral section of Magic V4.0 page 129848, subsection A.
| QUOTE (Uberjoel) |
| The problem with separating the fluff from the crunch in the way SR does is that every time a new edition rocks around, the previous edition is near-useless as edition changes are largely rules-changes. |
Maybe I've always just thought of the glass as being half-full: Your mechanics are obsolete, but the rest of the material is still useful even if only to give the game world a seriously detailed history.
jesus. if they make all the rules work like the Matrix rules, i'll kill someone.
i can see a 4th ed, though. it'd do things like consolidating all explosion rules into one single rule, which applies to any explosion/blast no matter the source--spell, grenade, random box of C-4 detonating, whatever.
i can see a 4th ed, though. it'd do things like consolidating all explosion rules into one single rule, which applies to any explosion/blast no matter the source--spell, grenade, random box of C-4 detonating, whatever.
Meh. I don't like that idea. Grenade and C-4, yes, but I neither feel the need for nor like the idea of spells acting like grenades and C-4.
~J
~J
| QUOTE |
| if they make all the rules work like the Matrix rules, i'll kill someone. |
Oh no, the Matrix rules will be different:
| CODE |
| 2 h@x0r h05t!!11 u /\/\u5t b cr@z!e n!nj@;;; r077z mad 5k!77z + l33t p007. |
i don't see why the magic rules should be different from c-4 or grenades. the mechanics are just mechanics--why do all the work of memorizing two different ways of handling what is basically the same thing, when it will have no effect on the in-character part of the game to make them the same and, therefore, simpler?
Well I have not heard anything in the pipe line. ButI would be a little pi##ed if they did. As I have just ordered some books from my Local games shop. Yea and its costing me some money.
Actually I'm very much for a 4th Edition.
My main reasons there are:
The thing that keeps from wanting that come true in the near future: The money I'd have to spend on such a new Edition
My main reasons there are:
- I want to see some rules streamlined (mainly Matrix)
- Some others have to be redesigned (vehicle stats and how they work in Combat). This all or nothing when it comes to damage is rather annoying
- I'd like to see a consequent use of either a totally abstract damage system or hit location system. The current mix (Core rules vs. M&M cyberlimb rules vs. M&M Chemtech attacks) pretty much sucks and usually leads to those reoccuring discussions about hit locations and armor bypassing.
- And while they're at it, they could redfine the power levels of weapons (for the gun-"nuts" who usually try to think in caliburs) ...
- Overall I'd like to see the same game mechanic used for all areas of SR and a reduction of those darn exceptions that come around so often ...
The thing that keeps from wanting that come true in the near future: The money I'd have to spend on such a new Edition
Much of the sourcebooks don't actually matter much between edition changes. I still use the Lone Star, Aztlan, Universal Brotherhood, and other books regularly in my games even though I play 3rd Ed. The game rules stuff changes, but the actual info on the game world works well. Even "updated" books like Shadows of Europe and Shadows of North America still don't make me feel like I've re-bought the same book (unlike some other systems *COUGH*D&D*COUGH*WOD*COUGH*).
The Abstruse One
The Abstruse One
If they do decide on a new edition, you should keep this in mind: All of the re-releases won't be put out at the same time. It'll be slowly released to the public, starting with Core.
Let's say every five months a new book comes out. That gives you five months to raise ~$40. That's $8/month. ~$2/week. Think you can set aside two bucks a week? That's one less beer at the bar for you legal people. One trip to McDonald's would be two-weeks worth! Not all that hard, you know?
Basically, if they decide to, then it won't be a rush of new material. It'll be Core first so people can learn the system and give feedback. If the consensus is "I hate it!" then, no doubt, they'll do some heavy refining and try again.
Let's say every five months a new book comes out. That gives you five months to raise ~$40. That's $8/month. ~$2/week. Think you can set aside two bucks a week? That's one less beer at the bar for you legal people. One trip to McDonald's would be two-weeks worth! Not all that hard, you know?
Basically, if they decide to, then it won't be a rush of new material. It'll be Core first so people can learn the system and give feedback. If the consensus is "I hate it!" then, no doubt, they'll do some heavy refining and try again.
| QUOTE (Cochise) |
| Overall I'd like to see the same game mechanic used for all areas of SR and a reduction of those darn exceptions that come around so often ... |
Reduction of exceptions, maybe, but as is said every time this topic comes around, in my opinion the varied rule systems are part of what make the game beautiful. There is absolutely no reason why hacking a host should be like casting a spell or firing a gun or driving a car.
~J
The last time this came up (a month or so ago?) somebody pointed out that FanPro just did a reprint of the Core Rules over the summer. Considering that it takes a goodly while to sell through such a reprint, it's unlikely that 4th edition is even in the pipeline.
Approximatively, SR get a new edition by decade : 80's = 2040 ; 90's = 2050 ; 2000 = 2060.
So I think you can wait a few years before the next.
So I think you can wait a few years before the next.
Er, maybe I'm wrong, but isn't 1st Ed. set in '50 as well? Shadowtech is definately dated in '52, which was originally a 1st Ed. book.
Maybe 80's = Early 50's; 90's = Late 50's, 00's = Early 60's?
Granted, those dates are probably way, way off, as (IIRC), 3rd also started in the late 90's.
Maybe 80's = Early 50's; 90's = Late 50's, 00's = Early 60's?
Granted, those dates are probably way, way off, as (IIRC), 3rd also started in the late 90's.
The earliest date listed is 2048 I believe in the 1rst core book. Some one have it handy?
89 = SR1 = 2050
92 = SR2 = 2053
98 = SR3 = 2060
92 = SR2 = 2053
98 = SR3 = 2060
| QUOTE (Adam @ Sep 23 2004, 05:11 PM) |
| 89 = SR1 = 2050 92 = SR2 = 2053 98 = SR3 = 2060 |
Crap! We're past due for another one!
Oh wait. Progression is 3 years, then 6 years.. so 9 years would be 2007.. then 2025...
Or, hey, what if the progression is (Edition # - 2)^4 x 3 + 3 years? If so, we aren't seeing SR4 until 2055!
Math seems to be off, AE... From 1st to 2nd took 3 years. Lemme recalc here to double check.
(Ed - 2) = -1
So...
(-1)^4 = 1
1 x 3 = 3
3 + 3 = 6
Not to mention, then, by your calculations, from 2 to 3 would take 3 years.
Eep.
Besides... What's the old addage? Oh, yeah.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Granted, it's still broke, but it isn't so broke as, say, 1st. (Hey, I like me my 2nd. Sometimes you just have to play the Troll Sammie for all that nummy Bioware.
)
(Ed - 2) = -1
So...
(-1)^4 = 1
1 x 3 = 3
3 + 3 = 6
Not to mention, then, by your calculations, from 2 to 3 would take 3 years.
Eep.
Besides... What's the old addage? Oh, yeah.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Granted, it's still broke, but it isn't so broke as, say, 1st. (Hey, I like me my 2nd. Sometimes you just have to play the Troll Sammie for all that nummy Bioware.
)
It's a progression that does not take into account the release date of the 1st edition. That would be pointless. I don't have the math skills to make it anything but (some multiples and powers that make zero) + 1989.
After that, you've got (2 - 2)^4 x 3 + 3 = 3 years to SR2, and (3 - 2)^4 x 3 + 3 = 6 years from that to SR3.
After that, you've got (2 - 2)^4 x 3 + 3 = 3 years to SR2, and (3 - 2)^4 x 3 + 3 = 6 years from that to SR3.
Hmm... If we knew how long from SR0 (aka, the first attempt at FASAns trying it out) to SR1 we could construct a better model of the timeframes between each release.
Indeed.
The box of SR1 BBB drafts I have is full of papers with 1986 date stamps. These drafts seem pretty complete -- nearly all of the editing is for spelling, grammar and organization. I'm thinking they spent another year on polishing and then two years waiting for the books to come back from the printer. 
From the FAQ at shadowrunrgp.com:
| QUOTE |
| Are you going to publish a Shadowrun, Fourth Edition? What, are you trying to say that Shadowrun, Third Edition isn't perfect?! No, we have no plans for SR4 at this time. |
Course, that doesn't mean that they won't make plans in the future...
-Joe
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Sep 22 2004, 10:21 PM) |
| I remember a discussion when 2007 was floated as a "not unreasonable" date, but I somehow doubt that they're giving it too much thought until they're certain they've got the book releases back on schedule. ~J |
Indeed. It's mentioned in the Developer's Say of the SR3 book.
| QUOTE (Mr. Man) |
| The box of SR1 BBB drafts I have is full of papers with 1986 date stamps. These drafts seem pretty complete -- nearly all of the editing is for spelling, grammar and organization. I'm thinking they spent another year on polishing and then two years waiting for the books to come back from the printer. |
CP2020 coming out in 1987 probably also affected it.
Or at least, that was my understanding based on comments made long ago.
The reason anyone makes a new rule book is to keep something fresh and different for the experienced gamer, unless the system sucks in the first place. I doubt there will be a new edition of SR before 2008 probably as late as 2010.
Also you guys get beer for $2, I was at a cheap place tonight and all my drinks were just short of £2 which is like $4 roughly. Probably why we use the term 'rip off britain' and pay £s = to $s dispite the fact a pound is about two dollars. Fecking international rip off merchants.
Also you guys get beer for $2, I was at a cheap place tonight and all my drinks were just short of £2 which is like $4 roughly. Probably why we use the term 'rip off britain' and pay £s = to $s dispite the fact a pound is about two dollars. Fecking international rip off merchants.
| QUOTE |
| Also you guys get beer for $2, I was at a cheap place tonight and all my drinks were just short of £2 which is like $4 roughly. |
While I'm not at all sure how it's related to Shadowrun... $4 is about what I pay for most of my beers at a bar too. A $2 beer in a US bar is more or less swill. A Bass, Guiness, or local Microbrew is usually $4.
I was spontaneously guessing. I'm not legal for that yet. 
Fine, so one beer is two weeks worth of saving, thusly cutting you down by a bit. Don't drink ten beers and you've got yourself a sourcebook.
Fine, so one beer is two weeks worth of saving, thusly cutting you down by a bit. Don't drink ten beers and you've got yourself a sourcebook.
But if that sourcebook is Rigger 3, you're going to need those beers.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| But if that sourcebook is Rigger 3, you're going to need those beers. ~J |
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| But if that sourcebook is Rigger 3, you're going to need those beers. |
Truer words have seldom been spoken. It's a pity I don't drink alcohol....
| QUOTE (Patrick Goodman) |
| It's a pity I don't drink alcohol.... |
Just bash your head against the wall until you feel dizzy -- just about the same effect, and you get to skip the hangover that much sooner.
| QUOTE (the_dunner) | ||
While I'm not at all sure how it's related to Shadowrun... $4 is about what I pay for most of my beers at a bar too. A $2 beer in a US bar is more or less swill. A Bass, Guiness, or local Microbrew is usually $4. |
My first paragraph was, having worked for a minitures games company thats what I understand new rules to be for.
Rigger 3 aint that hard, start at the back and pick vehicles based on which looks cooler in the pictures then go to mods and work backwards.
$4 for a pint is still pritty good, considering an average pint over here is £2.50. Never had Bass or Microbrew, tend to drink Fosters, Guiness, Beamish or Bud.
| QUOTE (Cochise) |
| Actually I'm very much for a 4th Edition. My main reasons there are:
|
I agree with Cochise as to seeing a streamlined ruleset for a fourth edition. I won't target any set of rules since I think they all need tweaking. After streamlining I think most of the rules would fit into the BBB.
You'd still have expansion books for things like spell design, vehicle design, cyberdeck design, weapon design, and (my dream) cyberware design guidelines.
I don't think this will occur until 13 years after the publishing of 3rd edition. I like the theory of a skipping prime number progression 3,7,13,....
Only 13 years? Damn - we'd better get cracking then...
well like it was said earlier, you can still use other source books for SR4, i ordered 700 worth of sourcebooks online and went back as far as i could and found as many as i could. i still find all the older ones useful
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