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toturi
What I meant was can you pay a 1 time lump sum payment for all dues you need to pay? Of course you lose it all if you get kicked out of the magical group but that is beside the point.

Or is it possible for the group to pay a 1 time payment for their resources?

For example. in a group with High Resources, can someone or someones pay 1mil nuyen.gif permanently settle accounts?
Moon-Hawk
Well.....if it works for lifestyle, I don't see why not, really.
Yeah, I'd use the exact same rules as lifestyle. 100 month's worth, all at once.
I think the rationale behind the lifestyle rule is that you set up accounts that will generate enough interest to make the monthly payment. (grossly simplified explanation) I don't see any real reason the group couldn't do the same thing.
Kanada Ten
I allow lump sums like this, but one can garner more resources by actually roleplaying that aspect. Invested in stocks, bonds and other assets, money paid to represent a lifetime payment can be lost, stolen, or even liquified once again should the need arise. Most games simply do not deal with that deal of detail, but once we begin to interlace how the money garners interest with what it supports we can see how it grows plot hooks as well.

If you keep hold of the lump sum, and use it with a competent stock brokerage and invest in shadowruns and other business ventures to support your magical group, it may have better long term consequences than simply having a lifetime membership.
toturi
Consider: A group with say... 10 members at High Resources to use the example in MitS. Therefore one member needs to pay 1000 per month. Or 100000 for a lifetime membership. Yes?

Consider as well: A member of a High/Luxury Resources group can live at Medium under the auspices of his group. In fact, all of them can live at Medium. So that makes it 100000 nuyen.gif for a lifetime Medium lifestyle. And a Medium Lifestyle can cost up to slightly less than 10K per month if you use the definations in SSG.
Kanada Ten
Simply one of the perks of a magical group. One is of course living in a group provided living station, and thus does not necessarily enjoy the privacy of independent life, nor the choices of decore or location. But the medium lifestyle provided might also be the bare minimum as well, which I would consider the canon interpretation.
Rev
I think it might actually specifically say you can do this... but I'm not sure. I just feel like I remember reading it someplace. That some magical groups work that way, something like a lifetime country club membership... if not they should. smile.gif

I would also think that that living in the group facilities would be a spartan medium, and possibly a social gaffe to use it very often in a wealthier group. Seems like for most groups it would be meant for temporary use, though for some cultish ones it makes sense for it to be permenant but perhaps at a lower level. For example the large cult with luxury resources has one luxury lifestyle, several high's, a dozen mediums, and a hundered lows.
toturi
QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
But the medium lifestyle provided might also be the bare minimum as well, which I would consider the canon interpretation.

I agree that a High Resources group providing a bare minimum Medium lifestyle, in fact it is Canon. A Luxury group provides Medium with perks. But either way, if you are using SSG, a Medium lifestyle will still have a lowest point value of 18.
Edward
Remember additional occupants only cost 10%.

Magical groups would be making use of that fact much of the time.

Edward
Kanada Ten
QUOTE
But either way, if you are using SSG, a Medium lifestyle will still have a lowest point value of 18.

Well, yes, it will by strict canon. And in fact, by strict canon it will have exactly 3 points in every aspect. Which means belonging to a group can save you money and karma (completely ignoring any of the roleplaying aspects of it). Not even considering the lump sum. By paying your dues to a high resource group you can save 4,000 a month. Then consider that the group owns every spell formula you make. They earn cred by royalties on these spells. [edit] Consider that the resources you supply to the group are just monetary for simplicity: you're actually giving them resources that they turn around and then capitalize on. And it's all handled metagame with lifestyle costs.
toturi
No, going by the description in MitS, the Resources costs that the magical group has is divided equally. Therefore there is no additional costs for additional occupants. The lifestyle provided is a perk and that is fixed.

Also at bare minimum Medium and from the description in MitS, the Entertainment part of the lifestyle is 0, therefore, there is at least 3 more points to spend.
Kanada Ten
QUOTE
No, going by the description in MitS, the Resources costs that the magical group has is divided equally. Therefore there is no additional costs for additional occupants. The lifestyle provided is a perk and that is fixed.

Edward is arguing that a hundred people can have a Medium lifestyle at an individual cost lower than one person having a Medium lifestyle. If anything MitS is reaffirming this. One can be living a Medium lifestyle in a single giant room with a hundred other people much cheaper than a hundred people each in a cubicle. SSG makes no mention of privacy; it implies more an aspect of personal space if anything.

QUOTE
Also at bare minimum Medium and from the description in MitS, the Entertainment part of the lifestyle is 0, therefore, there is at least 3 more points to spend.

That's more of a personal interpretation, but it changes nothing. The group decides what the point spread is, not the character.
toturi
Correct, as a Magical Group, the controlling requirement would definately be Space. Since Space controls the Rating of the Hermetic Circle, or the number of Lodges you can put in.
Kanada Ten
QUOTE (toturi)
Correct, as a Magical Group, the controlling requirement would definately be Space. Since Space controls the Rating of the Hermetic Circle, or the number of Lodges you can put in.

Definitely Space as primary, followed closely by Area and Security.

1 Member 10,000/Member
(5,000 for lifestyle, Group pays 5,000 to maintain)

2 Members 5,000/Member
(5,000 for lifestyle, Group pays 5,500 to maintain)

3 Members 3,333/Member
(5,000 for lifestyle, Group pays 6,000 to maintain)

30 Members 333/Member
(5,000 for lifestyle, Group pays 19,500 to maintain)

I think the implications point to the larger numbers of magicians writing essays, lecturing, and otherwise performing duties partially represented by dues the more the group can capitalize on those resources even if the direct monetary value seems lower. That said, I think allowing one to spend Karma in a fashion identical to vehicle maintenance is in order.
Kanada Ten
And I suddenly understand why paying the lump sum doesn't work: if the group changes size the dues alter.
toturi
Perhaps that's why some groups have Obedience as a Stricture, to keep the noobs in their place.
RedmondLarry
The rules are, of course, a simplification of an imaginary world. If you insist on taking them literally, and founded a 10,000 person group together, then everyone would pay 1 nuyen a month and get a middle lifestyle, including cafeteria food, clothing, and a hot shower each day.

Of course that doesn't work. It violates simple economics. 10,000 nuyen per month doesn't feed 10,000 people AND give them hot showers. You, as a GM, can figure out something that does work for your game.

Hmmm. 10,000 magicians at 3 Karma each. That's some spirit avatar.
toturi
Maybe the spirit avatar has Wealth power. And the dues is just a nominal fee.
Kagetenshi
At that point it isn't a fee, it's a bring-your-own-coffee notice on the flyer for the monthly meeting.

~J
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