SR3 mentions that grenade can be set to "explode on impact" or be times from "2 secs to 2 minutes", the only thing it doesn't mention is if they can be deactivated once armed.
We are all used to an arming-pin being removed, and numerous movies have used "the grenade pin" at one time or another. I just assumed it was an "on/off" switch of sorts for SR3 since it had a timer on it.
Any thoughts?
Full Version: Grenades!
Toss in a feature to enable/disable stopping the timer. That way, you can set up one to blow in two minutes if you don't get back (or for interrogation fun), and you don't have to worry about giving grenades to the enemy while in a fight. Well, if you use the wrong grenades, you are in trouble in both scenaios, but you should be able to keep them straight (Int test vs. number of grenades if you didn't do anything to mark them).
I doubt they could easily be disarmed with a touch of a button. If the people you're throwing the grenades at knows they can disarm it by touching it, they just might. Throwing a grenade back is much more difficult.
Maybe. Maybe not.
Maybe. Maybe not.
it depends on how you rule the timer as working. if its the clasic "percusion cap lights a slow fuse" type grenade, it aint gonna matter WHAT you do, it's going off.
if you rule that it's an electronic timer, which goes "bang" if a) the timer hits zero, or b) it hits something or c) the person next to you is wearing yellow, then there's a posibility of an "off" button.
you then have to think about what the designers were thinking when they designed the gredade. If it's a military issue, it's probably not going to have an "off button". it may have a recessed reset button, so that you can turn it off with the correct tool (Tool +Quickness (6) ) OR it may have an easy to remove Detonator (Quicknes 6, and a throw)
If it's a "security" grade grenade, it's probably going ot have a somewhat less than freindly control on it, but by default wont want to go off. (ie, press and hold a button to arm it, tap same button to disable. like one of those really cheap Biros. )
On the other hand the Microsoft Grenade XP, ill probabl have a tiny Screen on it, and ask inane questions like "Are you sure you want to arm this grenade? ? Y/N ? " "fatal exception errror KABLOWEY in module "disarm", "stop.dll not found".
if you rule that it's an electronic timer, which goes "bang" if a) the timer hits zero, or b) it hits something or c) the person next to you is wearing yellow, then there's a posibility of an "off" button.
you then have to think about what the designers were thinking when they designed the gredade. If it's a military issue, it's probably not going to have an "off button". it may have a recessed reset button, so that you can turn it off with the correct tool (Tool +Quickness (6) ) OR it may have an easy to remove Detonator (Quicknes 6, and a throw)
If it's a "security" grade grenade, it's probably going ot have a somewhat less than freindly control on it, but by default wont want to go off. (ie, press and hold a button to arm it, tap same button to disable. like one of those really cheap Biros. )
On the other hand the Microsoft Grenade XP, ill probabl have a tiny Screen on it, and ask inane questions like "Are you sure you want to arm this grenade? ? Y/N ? " "fatal exception errror KABLOWEY in module "disarm", "stop.dll not found".
| QUOTE (golden1) |
| On the other hand the Microsoft Grenade XP, ill probabl have a tiny Screen on it, and ask inane questions like "Are you sure you want to arm this grenade? ? Y/N ? " "fatal exception errror KABLOWEY in module "disarm", "stop.dll not found". |
LMAO.
Good points. Interestingly, once of my players round aboutly suggested that he would be the only one to stop it since he had demolitions and I dismissed it since he didn't really give me any explanation.
I suppose I can offer them their choice of grenade type when they buy them "military" (requires demolitions to stop) or "security" style (push 'stop').
Thanks again!
i'd require an Electronics or Electronics B/R test to shut down the timer, myself. TN 6 or so, probably. the fact that you can set the fuse with that wide a time limit, and the fact that grenades in SR always go off exactly on time, tells me that the timer is electronic.
i'm not sure how much people know about real grenades, to to clear up any confusion, i'll explain: grenades come in three main parts (at least, three main parts which concern the user). you've got the grenade's body, which does the exploding. you've got the spoon, which is a spring-loaded device that sets the grenade's timer counting by sproinging away from the grenade. you've got the pin, which keeps the spoon from sproinging.
to throw a grenade, you must first make sure you're holding it with the spoon firmly held down. you then pull the pin--the spoon is held in your hand, so that it can't sproing away and set off the timer. once you're sure you're going to throw, you release the spoon; it sproings, and lights a fuse inside the grenade. you then throw the grenade. once the fuse runs out, it lights off the main explosive; this explosive shatters the metal 'skin' of the grenade, turning them into a hail of ouches. the explosion itself also hurts people with a shockwave.
edit: hm, actually, defusing an electronic timer in a grenade would be almost impossible unless you are God. you'd first have to break the casing, which is metal and not designed to open--figure barrier rating 12. if you managed that, you'd be able to do your electronic thing--but keep in mind, the base time for breaking the casing and fiddling with the electronics is 30 seconds per task. you'd need to get 10 successes on each test, just to get the task time down to six seconds.
i'm not sure how much people know about real grenades, to to clear up any confusion, i'll explain: grenades come in three main parts (at least, three main parts which concern the user). you've got the grenade's body, which does the exploding. you've got the spoon, which is a spring-loaded device that sets the grenade's timer counting by sproinging away from the grenade. you've got the pin, which keeps the spoon from sproinging.
to throw a grenade, you must first make sure you're holding it with the spoon firmly held down. you then pull the pin--the spoon is held in your hand, so that it can't sproing away and set off the timer. once you're sure you're going to throw, you release the spoon; it sproings, and lights a fuse inside the grenade. you then throw the grenade. once the fuse runs out, it lights off the main explosive; this explosive shatters the metal 'skin' of the grenade, turning them into a hail of ouches. the explosion itself also hurts people with a shockwave.
edit: hm, actually, defusing an electronic timer in a grenade would be almost impossible unless you are God. you'd first have to break the casing, which is metal and not designed to open--figure barrier rating 12. if you managed that, you'd be able to do your electronic thing--but keep in mind, the base time for breaking the casing and fiddling with the electronics is 30 seconds per task. you'd need to get 10 successes on each test, just to get the task time down to six seconds.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| once you're sure you're going to throw, you release the spoon; it sproings, and lights a fuse inside the grenade. you then throw the grenade. |
This is true on grenades with particularly long fuzes, like the M67. The Finnish DF standard fragmenting hand grenade has a fuze of 2.5 seconds -- I do not suggest releasing the spoon before throwing with that. Still, since the M67 is what most people here probably consider a "hand grenade" to be, that's about it.
Are M67s stored in two separate parts, the detonator/fuze/spoon part and the main body? I suppose them going off at random is no longer a significant safety risk.
i believe they are, yes. at least, in dummy-grenade practice, we used unfilled grenade bodies which the drill sergeants would pop a pin/spoon assembly onto for pin-pulling practice.
yes. we practice pulling pins. sounds dumb, but there's always one guy who doesn't pay attention and gets it wrong.
yes. we practice pulling pins. sounds dumb, but there's always one guy who doesn't pay attention and gets it wrong.
And then there is the occasional fool who "forgets" to remove rings etc. and when the grenade gets stuck to his ring, injures himself and probably the instructor as well.
Pin pulling training sounds ok to me.
Pin pulling training sounds ok to me.
or the guy who pulls the pin, lets go the spoon, and then freezes. woo, that was great.
Hmm, deactivation once armed huh? Really up to the GM and the story intensity. However, here's my take on it:
OK, I class non-aerodynamic grenades to be made with a booby-trap feature. Something like an extendable spool wire you can use to rig tripwires or attach to the bottom of mattresses/doorhandles etc. Often accompanied with a magnetic or adhesive ability allowing them to be placed in convienient booby-trap locations. These I'd allow a character an attempt to disarm if discovered. Demolitions (Bomb Disposal) skill would be used for the test. As for the difficulty, that would depend on how it was prepared by the character who laid it - usually low to average if casually placed, higher if hidden or an extreme example. Alternatively use the Demolitions Skill Rating of the boby-trapper as the TN + 1 per success they achieved in setting the grenade. They'd also better have some tools for the job otherwise its increased TNs.
As for thrown grenades, especially the aerodynamic ones which I view as not having enough space for a booby-trap feature, they would be limited to the variable timer option as standard. The character has to set the timer with a simple action before throwing (2 seconds to 2-3 minutes, or whatever limit your GM inposes). This makes disarming them a risky venture, although it could be possible - especially for those with boosted reflexes. The timer might be electronic, but I'd still use Demolitions (Bomb Disposal) to achieve it though - after all, it is an explosive device.
Conversely, because of the advances in technology, most grenade manufacturers would have installed anti-tamper stuff by 2050s. So, good quality products would be nearly impossible to disarm. There may still be the odd low quality version still knocking about though, especially in the hands of those people not rich enough to afford the latest tech. IE: Gangers, revolutionaries, third world tribes/groups using left-over surplus munitions, etc.
As a note, I allow many grenades in my games to be equipped with a detonate upon impact function. This is a favoured option amongst my players because it happens there and then in the combat round (like airburst-programmed mini-grenades) rather than waiting until the end of the round. Which can be a little unrealistic given high initiative/action characters. Then again, they ten to be very careful in case they accidentally drop or jolt them too hard before they manage to throw them away. (Yup its fun when NPC snipers hold there actions and plug the character about to lob one, thus dropping their own weapon into the midst of the PC group - BOOM!) this can also happen on an "Oops" result of all ones on the Throwing Weapons test.
Another option is to have grenades that are equipped with sensors that trigger the explosive upon meeting the required criterea - reversal or cessation of forward inertia for example. (Technically you could lob one back if you caught it in a swinging motion and then lob it back in a clean swing.) Another option for high tech ops forces is to equip them with Personal Smartgun Safety chips, so that they won't detonate if detecting any friendly transmitter signal within their blast radius.
As for grenade launcher fired grenades - nope.
OK, I class non-aerodynamic grenades to be made with a booby-trap feature. Something like an extendable spool wire you can use to rig tripwires or attach to the bottom of mattresses/doorhandles etc. Often accompanied with a magnetic or adhesive ability allowing them to be placed in convienient booby-trap locations. These I'd allow a character an attempt to disarm if discovered. Demolitions (Bomb Disposal) skill would be used for the test. As for the difficulty, that would depend on how it was prepared by the character who laid it - usually low to average if casually placed, higher if hidden or an extreme example. Alternatively use the Demolitions Skill Rating of the boby-trapper as the TN + 1 per success they achieved in setting the grenade. They'd also better have some tools for the job otherwise its increased TNs.
As for thrown grenades, especially the aerodynamic ones which I view as not having enough space for a booby-trap feature, they would be limited to the variable timer option as standard. The character has to set the timer with a simple action before throwing (2 seconds to 2-3 minutes, or whatever limit your GM inposes). This makes disarming them a risky venture, although it could be possible - especially for those with boosted reflexes. The timer might be electronic, but I'd still use Demolitions (Bomb Disposal) to achieve it though - after all, it is an explosive device.
Conversely, because of the advances in technology, most grenade manufacturers would have installed anti-tamper stuff by 2050s. So, good quality products would be nearly impossible to disarm. There may still be the odd low quality version still knocking about though, especially in the hands of those people not rich enough to afford the latest tech. IE: Gangers, revolutionaries, third world tribes/groups using left-over surplus munitions, etc.
As a note, I allow many grenades in my games to be equipped with a detonate upon impact function. This is a favoured option amongst my players because it happens there and then in the combat round (like airburst-programmed mini-grenades) rather than waiting until the end of the round. Which can be a little unrealistic given high initiative/action characters. Then again, they ten to be very careful in case they accidentally drop or jolt them too hard before they manage to throw them away. (Yup its fun when NPC snipers hold there actions and plug the character about to lob one, thus dropping their own weapon into the midst of the PC group - BOOM!) this can also happen on an "Oops" result of all ones on the Throwing Weapons test.
Another option is to have grenades that are equipped with sensors that trigger the explosive upon meeting the required criterea - reversal or cessation of forward inertia for example. (Technically you could lob one back if you caught it in a swinging motion and then lob it back in a clean swing.) Another option for high tech ops forces is to equip them with Personal Smartgun Safety chips, so that they won't detonate if detecting any friendly transmitter signal within their blast radius.
As for grenade launcher fired grenades - nope.
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