In the wake of the AVS thread below, I decided to delve into my barely-touched copy of the Cannon Companion and create a race gun designed for the aforementioned Gun Kata physad. What I have so far is:

Base Heavy Pistol frame
Heavy Barrel (1pt recoil comp, +25 dpv, -0.25 fcu, +0.5 wgt)
Recoil Comp 1 (+70 DPV, -0.5 FCU,)
Firing Mode SA/BF (+100 DPV, -1 FCU, +0.5 wgt)
Improved FCU +1.0 (+40 DPV, +1 FCU)
Melee Hardening (+15 DPV, -0.5 FCU, +0.25 wgt)

Totals at this point: DPV 400, FCU 0.75 remaining, Wgt 4.0

Moving on to the customisation section, I then add:

Personalised Grip (1pt recoil comp, +25 DP)
Extended Clip +5 (+10 DP)

Now I stutter. What I want to do is add an IGV-II, an old fave-rave for many years. That would take the total recoil compensation to 5; add another 1 for strength 5+ (do I have that right?) and that handles 2 bursts per phase without recoil. Expensive in bullets, but capable of laying down some serious fire cover if needed (bearing in mind here that the redesigned physad in question is a phys magician, has Ambi-8 and the Enhance Aim spell on a sustaining focus, which I think I have right is the replacement for spell locks). Now, in theory I think I could add the IGV-II for the nuyen cost divided by 5 (110) in DP with the weight increase of +0.25, but what FCU? There's no conceal reduction for the IGV-II, compared to the -1 for the standard; comparing their weights and extrapolating that to the FCU, that would bring the IGV-II in at half the FCU, or 0.25. Does that sound reasonable?

bear in mind that you will need a design skill, a B&R skill and at least a facility in order to create the gun, which if you only need this one gun is a very expensive proposition, but yes. it conforms to the rules, such as they are in cc.. when you design a gun you end up with a price, this is not the price you pay unless someone actually sells it..

I would worry more about nr 2... which is, will your GM accept it? <I wouldnt>
& check with the GM is he is using the str vs recoil rules..
the CC gun design rules are so completely broken, that there is not really a point in using them, just forget about them, get a picture of a gun you like, give it some SR stats and ask the GM if he will allow it.
making it with the CC doesnt make them any more official..

DS

That's patently false. It is possible to make a balanced gun with the CC rules. It takes some self-discipline, which shows that the rules are flawed, but they are not valueless.

~J

Why do you want an Improved GV-2, whatever that is? Why isn't a regular Gas Vent II good enough? The FCU costs don't have anything to do with Concealability. If you want your gun to have a Gas Vent II without a reduced Concealability, just add both Improved Concealability-1 and GV-2, for 0.75 FCU, 110 DP and 0.5kg.

The Recoil & Strength table in CC, p. 103, starts bonuses at STR 6.

Well I understand that some GMs won't allow it. But as the aspect of the Gramaton Monk where this concept comes from I would say it perfectly legal. What so special about this gun. As I don't have CC. This is a tailored weapons, like what is said. You could pay a fortune. That is due to hand made custom SOTA.

I have found that a lot SRP take the most kick a$$ guns. With it they tend to go for take down. Any weapon has take down, it all depends on the user. How good he is. In this case I would say this gun has the take down. with SA/bf yea. But most of the guns with BF it is a complex action with a pistol.

Lets take a berretta 9 mm.

increase barrel length 1.5" , that gives you range increase and accuracy.
File down the trigger rocker catch, well you have FA.
Increase spring tension, and increase gunpowder Load to ++P.

Well here we have a gun that does the following.
Increased accuracy, longer range, FA and increased power.
so from a say 7M 50M. We now have
8 or 9M plus (FA 4 shot max Complex action) with 65M - 75M. The increased accuracy would be factored in to the increase range.

Guess what I am rambling.

You get the idea.

Gas Vent II takes up the 'barrel' slot, it doesn't have any FCU per se but it does effect concealabilty. So, as suggested, take a level of Improved Conc and away you go.

I've modified rules for recoil, so that it only applies to a single action. Each pull of the trigger is seperate in terms of recoil. It might not be as balanced but it's certainly more realistic, which is what I was after (so the heavy barrel, personalised grip and STR 6+ would be enough in my game).

However, since the gun stats in general are broken, I've ruled that any burst firing pistols get a choice of effect from the burst. It either takes a complex action for the full 12S or whatever, or it only adds 2 - the Reaper series (Predator series with BF and 1RC) only do 11S but at a simple action.

Seems to work in my games... but I'll admit that burst firing heavy pistols are a little sticky.

Well, like I mentioned, no matter how you view the impact on Concealability of modifications added during the design of a firearm, you simply do not need an Improved Gas Vent, because you've got enough FCU to add a Gas Vent II and Improved Concealability 1.

In my own house rules, any bullet you fire generates recoil. That means that unless you're STR6+ you need to get 1 point of RC in some way.

However, recoil is 'reset' for each pull of the trigger because I'm assuming the firer pulls the weapon back into the right position.

I disagree. If recoil didn't effect a single shot, then why is the weaver stance adopted by so many shooters? And since the bolt has to recycle as well it produces forces which throws the hand off. Least it always did those of us in my unit shooting team.

As for the number of bullets, when you remove your finger from the trigger, you automatically and sunconciously readjust your aim from where it was.

Put it this way: the bullet takes all of, what, 0.001 seconds or so to get out of the barrel of a handgun? The amount of force with which the weapon recoils before the bullet leaves the barrel is quite small. In that time window, it simply cannot change the position of the gun enough for the bullet to go off-target. Only after the bullet has left the barrel the gun starts to move with the recoil.

The weaver-stance is stable. The less your hands shake, the better your accuracy (obviously). And you'll want a grip and stance which does make follow-up shots as accurate as possible in case you need them.

Of course the moving of the bolt (or slide in a handgun) also affects the aim -- most noticable when dry-firing a HMG. But in gas-operated and many recoil-operated firearms the bolt doesn't move until after the bullet has left the barrel, and even in the few non-delayed recoil operated firearms the movement of the internals of the weapon before the bullet has cleared the muzzle is minimal.

Part of the thing there is I don't really do a burst setting. I keep the BF setting in the stats and such because of the game mechanics which surround it, but I actually view the firer as using the full auto setting on the weapon but only firing a three round burst. For weapons where BF is the highest, those I see as having a burst setting - the pistols and some SMG's for example. But for assault rifles and most SMG's they have BF by virtue of their FA setting. It's not quite as simple as that, as machine guns don't get BF as such but short bursts with FA weapons are still cool with me.

*Wiggles index fingers*

Afterall, with very little training these become your fire selectors, and with a fair but more your safeties as well. It's how we always trained, unless we were target shooting when we needed that first round accuracy.