Full Version: Phys-mages
Okay, where is it mentioned that phys mages do not have astral perception or astral projection? They can use enchanting, correct? If so, how can you enchant something you can't even assense?
Second paragraph, page 24:
| QUOTE |
| Magician adepts begin without access to astral space. They may purchase and use the power of astral perception normally but can never use astral projection. |
EDIT: BTW there are some creature-as-PC options that allow not only perception, but also projection in a starting adept without using power points. But that gets into shapeshifters and drakes as PCs.
P.S. There are a few people here that have house ruled an astral projection adept power that requires that you already have the astral perception power. If i remember correctly they put a cost of 2 power points on it or something. However that is purely house rules, and has no real basis in canon.
Or take the Dual Natured flaw (from SURGEing)
okay, I guess I missed that.... but how do you enchant without astral perception? or conjure effectively for that matter?
Conjuring? Mages don't go astral to conjure. I see no issue there.
Enchanting perhaps could be an issue. Depends on how you rule that they sort the good stuff from the bad. MitS doesn't really go into that, it doesn't require an assensing test or anything like that. So it's up to the GM whether they require the Magicians Way adept to get astral perception to be able to enchant.
Enchanting perhaps could be an issue. Depends on how you rule that they sort the good stuff from the bad. MitS doesn't really go into that, it doesn't require an assensing test or anything like that. So it's up to the GM whether they require the Magicians Way adept to get astral perception to be able to enchant.
Just means the physad-mage has to get the Perception power before Enchanting... regarding projection it is now officially (as of SOTA64) available in canon as a metamagic the magician's way adept can pickup (with some slight limitations).
There is a new ability in SotA '64 that allows very limited Projection for Physical Magicians (who already have Perception).
As to Enchanting, you could always rule that they can only utilize the Enchanting skill within their limitations, just like everyone else. If the player really wants his character to use the full potential of Enchanting, then they'll probably pick up Perception.
[edit]Synner beat me to it.
Synner: slight???
As to Enchanting, you could always rule that they can only utilize the Enchanting skill within their limitations, just like everyone else. If the player really wants his character to use the full potential of Enchanting, then they'll probably pick up Perception.
[edit]Synner beat me to it.
Synner: slight???
Yeah, I'll have to second Fortune on this one. I definitely would not call that a slight limitation.
The majority of astral jaunts are in the order of a few minutes. Or at least you can get a LOT done in that time. You can scout an entire building out, fly a very long way (and back!), and all kinds of other things.
Sure there's stuff you can't do, or rather won't have time to do, but come on! Go a mage if you want to project for hours. It's already rather generous to let magician's way adepts project as it is.
Sure there's stuff you can't do, or rather won't have time to do, but come on! Go a mage if you want to project for hours. It's already rather generous to let magician's way adepts project as it is.
Generous or not, I find someone describing a change of duration from hours to minutes as slight quite humorous.
I don't find it a bad ability at all, and even think it could be a Power as opposed to a Metamagic. But then again I think Perception is too expensive at 2 P.P. (but not expensive enough at the commonly house-ruled 0.5 P.P.).
I don't find it a bad ability at all, and even think it could be a Power as opposed to a Metamagic. But then again I think Perception is too expensive at 2 P.P. (but not expensive enough at the commonly house-ruled 0.5 P.P.).
the main advantage the limited projection metamagic seems to give is the ability to do astral quests.
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| Synner: slight??? |
Honestly, you should have seen the limitations Josh and I wanted at one point. James got his way and I'm quite comfortable with the end result. It's balanced which was what we wanted in the end.
As I said, I don't really mind it, as it does open up access to the MetaPlanes to Physical Magicians.
On the other hand, a case can be made that it also removes what is arguably the biggest drawback and main balancing factor to being a PhysMage as opposed to a Full Mage.
On the other hand, a case can be made that it also removes what is arguably the biggest drawback and main balancing factor to being a PhysMage as opposed to a Full Mage.
Apart from the official course of penalizing them double on every initiation? ~sorry, couldn't resist there~
I have less against that now, seeing as it's now their only real limitation.
The reason conjuring is an issue is because it is generally described as a careful manipulation of energies on the astral. Further, most spirits prefer not to manifest, and some are even completely incapable of it. This makes it rather tough to command them, neh?
Provided that the communication doesn't occur in a telepathic manner. It nowhere says that you have to "see" a spirit in order to command it 
*shrug* Do your mages have to go astral to control spirits or tap an elemental on call? If not then there isn't a problem as obviously going astral is not required. If they do have to go astral [in your game], then what exactly is that based on? Nothing canon as far as i can see. I could be wrong here.
P.S. I'm pretty sure i can show they don't, but i'll have to go through the books later when i have time and access to them.
P.S. I'm pretty sure i can show they don't, but i'll have to go through the books later when i have time and access to them.
it's very rare that one needs to be percieving in order to conjure. as a matter of fact, there's at least one use of conjuring--banishing--that can't be done while percieving.
:: nods :: I don't force astral perception or projection to command spirits, I just think that it's a lot easier if you can see what you're ordering around.
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