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Lycanthropic Dreaming
Hi all.

After a little negotiation with WizKids, I've gotten permission to release my Shadowrun Dice Roller Applet to the world.

Have a play. Drop me a line telling me what you like/dislike yadda yadda.

Note that you'll need a relatively modern JRE for your web browser. 1.4+ at the very least.

And finally, if you're using Internet Explorer, I can't guarantee that the pages will render very well. I'm using certain CSS standards that all current versions of IE implement poorly. I'm using Mozilla, but any standards compliant web browser should give you the page I intended.
Wutasumi
Looks nice. And I'll have a chance to use it soon...
spotlite
I'm getting a page could not be found error - is it me, or have we used up the site's bandwidth already?
Austere Emancipator
Worked for me just now. However, at least on my Mozilla 1.6b, the boxes which should show the amount of dice and TN chosen and the Successes and Highest Roll are 1 pixel wide, so I had to trust the Results History to see what exactly happened.

It looks pretty good. The inclusion of Complementary dice is a nice touch.
Wutasumi
Weird, I have Mozilla, and the boxes are about 1CM square.
Lycanthropic Dreaming
Ok.. I've pulled the applet out wider to try sorting out the compression of fields people are seeing. Does that do the trick?
Ouchies
well just one thing the page isnt Firefox friendly. it starts out okay, until the applets load, then you cant scroll down to where the Shadowrun applet is. If you try to use the top link to it, it only goes down to The Compounder.

EDIT - nevermind i had an add blocker installed, so it was blocking 90% of the page. i turned it off and now can view it.
Austere Emancipator
The text boxes are still 1 pixel wide on my screen. No idea why, and it doesn't really bother me. The text's still there -- I can copy/paste the Skill Dice amount out of the box, for example. If the applet works for others, don't worry about what it looks like on my screen, since I'm not a likely user.
Wutasumi
Only complaint I have is nothing. Nice job.
Lycanthropic Dreaming
QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)
Worked for me just now. However, at least on my Mozilla 1.6b, the boxes which should show the amount of dice and TN chosen and the Successes and Highest Roll are 1 pixel wide, so I had to trust the Results History to see what exactly happened.

Now that I try it on my Windows machine here at Uni, I'm seeing the same thing (which means that I really NEED to fix it, it'll drive me batty OW).

AE, out of curiosity, you're machine isn't a Windows box is it? What version JRE do you have installed?

I'm beginning to suspect that there may be some difference in how screen layout is actually implemented between Linux (my test environment) and Windows in the JVM.
Wutasumi
What version of windows? I'm using XP home and it seems to be fine.
Cochise
I seem to have te same problem with that 1 pxiel width

Technical details:

- WinXP Pro, Service Pack 2 installed
- JDK 1.4.1_01
- Opera 7.23 Browser

And yes, there are good chances that it has to do with the Java-Installation .. And of course the classes you used (Swing, AWT?)
Shadow
It crashed my IE with a bunch of exception errors.
Lycanthropic Dreaming
QUOTE (Cochise)
I seem to have te same problem with that 1 pxiel width


I also noticed that it's squished vertically on my Windows browser. I'll try pulling the height of the applet out a bit too.

QUOTE (Cochise)
And yes, there are good chances that it has to do with the Java-Installation .. And of course the classes you used (Swing, AWT?)


It's all Swing. And yes, this is not the first time that one of my Applets doesn't quite appear exactly the same across several patforms. Normally it needs just a bit of tweaking. Hopefully, that's all I need to do this time. 8/
Lycanthropic Dreaming
QUOTE (Shadow @ Oct 18 2004, 01:46 PM)
It crashed my IE with a bunch of exception errors.

Interesting.

All I can think of is that it might be an older JRE you have installed with your browser. I checked this morning with W2K, IE6 and the applet worked fine (besides that odd field compression).

Email me the stack trace if you like. I'll take a squiz and see what the JRE is complaining about in your instance.
Lycanthropic Dreaming
Ok... I've mashed the size of the Applet about a bit, and it's rendering correctiy under my wife's Win2K Mozilla.

FIngers crossed, it'll happily display the field widgets for everyone now.
Austere Emancipator
Yup, works fine now for me now.
GrinderTheTroll
So aside from the Logo (which I suppose is an optional item to include), why did you have to get permission from WizKid?
Whizbang
Hmm...any way to get a complete list of numbers, for when you don't know the target number you're shooting for?
Kagetenshi
Results are rather squished, though more than one pixel, on Safari under OSX 10.3.5 with the latest version of Java for the platform.

~J
Lycanthropic Dreaming
QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll)
So aside from the Logo (which I suppose is an optional item to include), why did you have to get permission from WizKid?


The logo is the only thing that needed WizKids permission. I wanted a filler for the empty table. I had a couple of backup plans JIC they weren't happy for it to be used this way, but I liked this one the most so I figured I'd see it through before trying plan B.
Lycanthropic Dreaming
QUOTE (Whizbang)
Hmm...any way to get a complete list of numbers, for when you don't know the target number you're shooting for?

Not quite sure what you're asking...

If it's just a case of not knowing the target number, that's an open test, and only the highest roll matters anyway.

If you're interested in seeing the actual results per die, that's something I'm naval gazing on. I'm guessing that you'd want the full list of numbers for "test" rolls to see how many dice roll to a certain value. It doesn't really fit with my vision of the dice roller (which is really a convenience toy for doing ACTUAL game dice rolls).

I'll add this to a wish-list. If enough people want it, I'll put serious thought into adding it in.
Lycanthropic Dreaming
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Results are rather squished, though more than one pixel, on Safari under OSX 10.3.5 with the latest version of Java for the platform.

~J

Can you send me a screen shot of the applet running in your Environment please?
Fortune
The thing is, some rolls in Shadowrun have variable TNs (besides Open tests), especially Detection Spells, which have a different TN for each person targeted. With your roller, there is no way to get variable results from the one spell. This could be fixed merely by showing the results of all dice rolled.
Lycanthropic Dreaming
QUOTE (Fortune)
The thing is, some rolls in Shadowrun have variable TNs (besides Open tests), especially Detection Spells, which have a different TN for each person targeted. With your roller, there is no way to get variable results from the one spell. This could be fixed merely by showing the results of all dice rolled.

Ahhh... point taken. Ok... It's a definite feature for v2.
Lycanthropic Dreaming
Ok... There is a new version up on my webpage. It now has two tabbed panes. One tab containing the (old) summary table, and a new "Details" tab that gives the complete detail back, including all the dice rolled and their values.

Not sure if the applet width has to change. I won't have a chance to test it for a little while now.
Lycanthropic Dreaming

Hi guys.

I've not heard a peep from anyone since I added the extra "Summary/Detail" tabbing to the applet. I'm assuming it's pretty-much fine in its current state?

Anyway, onto my real question...

How/where do people think I should go about getting links to point at the applet?
Kanada Ten
Have told the people on the IRC about it?

Background on Detail = bad.
Lycanthropic Dreaming
QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
Have told the people on the IRC about it?

Background on Detail = bad.


Ummm... no. Point me at it please ? (showing his ignorance)

As to the background vs font intefering with other, I was afraid of that. More pondering needed. I'll probably just pull it off.
Kanada Ten
http://irc.dumpshock.com They have a web based client.
Stumps
wow...um...this is what I got when I used IE 6 on XP pro.
IE 6 / OS: XP Pro

Here's the top half of the page as I am seeing it in Firefox.
Firefox / OS: XP Pro

Here's the bottom half of the page as I am seeing it in Firefox.
Firefox / OS: XP Pro

Aside from the odd sizing bit in IE, I'm not sure this is this sites direct problem.
For some reason lately, can't figure out why, a good number of java sites haven't been showing up right in either browser.

[edit]I take that back. I just went to another dice roller that was java and it loaded fine. In IE, all I get if I scroll down to your java applets in that tiny window are blank grey boxes.
Shadow
I've got the latest IE and I get an very small box that says,

"sorry, your browser cannot display this".
MYST1C
I just had a look on it with FireFox 0.9.2 on WinXP pro SP2 - and it works fine!
Stumps
Then can somebody explain what I'm doing wrong as it must be pilot error if someone else is able to see it fine with the same set-up.
Tanka
I've got the same IE problem as Stumps.
Stumps
What I've narrowed it down to so far is that all the pages have at least one thing in common.
They are all Java linked pages.
The source for the Java that creates these pages might not have any widths, or heights defined which could be causing this display problem.

I'm really not sure though, but that's at least the one thing that's uniformed in each of the pages code on the sight.
Stumps
Ok...looking at the coding here by using Firefox.

First thing that might be causing some of the problems with the applets.
The dimesions are described partially in this bit of code:
CODE
Width: 250px, Height: 30px


But these attributes are missing:
CODE
Physical Width: 0px, Physical Height: 0px


Don't know if that means anything or not.

There are no Title Attributes to these applets either, in case that matters.

In your 3rd <DIV> there is an IFrame. There seems to be a comfliction in IE as to that IFrames sizing...at least, that's my guess.

As to the applets not showing themselves...I'm lost there.
Lycanthropic Dreaming
QUOTE

wow...um...this is what I got when I used IE 6 on XP pro.
IE 6 / OS: XP Pro


IE isn't even close to standards compliance. I made a decision way back that if you've got IE, you've far bigger problems than having my web-page render. I'd rather stick with the standards, which (I know) alienates many, many IE viewers. As a consession, there's nothing stopping someone wanting to embed the applet in an IE compliant web-page., I'm happy for people to do that so long as they put a link through to my page-set.

QUOTE

Here's the top half of the page as I am seeing it in Firefox.
Firefox / OS: XP Pro


The next two pictures are easy enough to diagnose. Your firefox browser doesn't have a JRE installed. That's something you'll need to do for yourself. I've supplied some basic instructions for it at the top of the page.
Lycanthropic Dreaming
I'll be a bit more specific on the IE thing.

The core reason why the pages look so screwed under IE is that IE does an abysmal job of interpreting cascading style sheets (and some would say deliberately, given the long history M$ has with NOT fully implementing standards across the board).

Digging deeper again, it's to do with attributes describing layout of HTML block regions.

If your browser at least makes a serious attempt to go for CSS compliance, the pageset turns out the way I intended. And no... I have no plans to pander to M$ non-compliance of CSS.

Guys... if you have IE, I'm begging you... get another browser, or talk to me about embedding the applet in your own page. I'm leaving my page-set CSS compliant, even if it means IE users get the short end of the stick when they visit me. 8(
Fortune
Why is it so many other people can create IE-compatable pages ... even when they despise IE?
Kagetenshi
Because they care enough to cater to it, or because they don't use CSS. I don't actually have anything that breaks under IE on the SotSW web page, but I have made it explicit that I do not support IE.

QUOTE (SotSW.net)
Note: site designed to be viewed under Safari or any other standards-compliant browser. If you're using Internet Explorer and something is broken, try using a decent browser.


Edit: I do it because of what I may one day add to the site, not just to be snarky. Though I do so love being snarky.

~J
Tanka
Lycanthropic: You may as well tell people so scrag off on the webpage itself.

Why not just create a separate page with a link to it from the main page titled "IE users click here."

No browser fully supports W3C. The one that comes closest is the one made by the W3C themselves. Every other browser's compliancy is left up to the coders of the browser.
Lycanthropic Dreaming
QUOTE (tanka @ Nov 19 2004, 12:01 PM)

Lycanthropic: You may as well tell people so scrag off on the webpage itself.


If I actually WANTED them to scrag off, perhaps. You've just given me an idea though, for what I could in the case of IE users that won't break my CSS compliant pageset. cool.gif

QUOTE (tanka @ Nov 19 2004, 12:01 PM)

No browser fully supports W3C.  The one that comes closest is the one made by the W3C themselves.  Every other browser's compliancy is left up to the coders of the browser.


Of course, but I fail to see how it excuses M$ from at least making the attempt. Perhaps Bill can't justify the expense to his shareholders?

QUOTE (tanka @ Nov 19 2004, 12:01 PM)

Why not just create a separate page with a link to it from the main page titled "IE users click here."


The offer still stands for someone with an IE compatible pageset to co-host the applet. I'm more than happy to supply a link through to that with wording to a similar effect.
Tanka
QUOTE (Lycanthropic Dreaming)
QUOTE (tanka @ Nov 19 2004, 12:01 PM)

No browser fully supports W3C.  The one that comes closest is the one made by the W3C themselves.  Every other browser's compliancy is left up to the coders of the browser.


Of course, but I fail to see how it excuses M$ from at least making the attempt. Perhaps Bill can't justify the expense to his shareholders?

Well, it isn't Gates' choice. It's the choice of the people who code IE. Go have a rail at them.
Lycanthropic Dreaming
QUOTE (tanka)
Well, it isn't Gates' choice. It's the choice of the people who code IE. Go have a rail at them.


Ummm... Tanka, I really don't want this to turn into a M$/non-M$ bashing session. M$ can do their thing, and I'll do mine. It's a big enough planet for the both of us. I'm REALLY not having a rail at M$. Apologies if that's the way it's come across.

I'm actually rather ambivilent about the entire IE thing. I wanted a certain look-and-feel for my web-pages that I could only achieve with applying CSS in a certain way. Unfortunately, it's not something IE handles. I have no interest in (or time for) writing reams of javascript code that tests against IE/vs non-IE browsers to serve up different content. My web-page set is more of an experimentation ground than a serious attempt to please everyone.

Please... how about turning all the enerygy you're pumping into angst into something constructive instead?! What about helping me find an IE friendly home-away-from-home for the applet? Hmm? Will you accept that as an olive-branch?
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