Dumpshock Forums > defaulting skills

cheeze monger

Oct 20 2004, 02:04 AM

I have a question concerning defaulting skills to attributes.

Say there are two characters. One has a quickness 6 and stealth 2, and the other has a quickness of 8 and no stealth skill.

When the first character rolls his steath open test with 2 dice, he rolls crappy because he only has two dice. But, when character #2 defaults to quickness he rolls 8 dice and, even with the -4 for defaulting to an attribute, rolls dang high.

I'd say that's cheap, because someone who's partially trained in stealth blows in comparison to somone who's not trained. Any ideas on how to balance it out?

Crimson Jack

Oct 20 2004, 02:12 AM

The cost to raise Attributes gives it a moderate amount of balance.

mfb

Oct 20 2004, 02:24 AM

this could be balanced by using opposed tests for Stealth checks. roll your Stealth skill against TN 4 +modifiers for terrain type, etc.; roll the perceiver's perception against TN 4 +modifiers for perception. whoever gets the most successes wins.

Ol' Scratch

Oct 20 2004, 02:38 AM

QUOTE (cheeze monger)

I have a question concerning defaulting skills to attributes.

Say there are two characters. One has a quickness 6 and stealth 2, and the other has a quickness of 8 and no stealth skill.

When the first character rolls his steath open test with 2 dice, he rolls crappy because he only has two dice. But, when character #2 defaults to quickness he rolls 8 dice and, even with the -4 for defaulting to an attribute, rolls dang high.

I'd say that's cheap, because someone who's partially trained in stealth blows in comparison to somone who's not trained. Any ideas on how to balance it out?

Unfortunately, the system handles low (1 or 2) skill ratings about as well as it handles really high skill ratings -- not very well. But since the system completely ignores Attributes in its Skill system, rather than incorporating it into it, there's really not much you can do to solve the problem without going into the field of extensive house rules. And the problem with using house rules is that it changes the whole dynamic of the game, not just the problem with low or really high Skill ratings.

But if you are up for a major change like that, mfb's suggestion above is a good place to start. Honestly, I've never understood the point in Open Tests. They are pretty much alien to the rest of the system.

Fortune

Oct 20 2004, 02:43 AM

I agree with the doc and mfb. Do away with as many Open tests as possible and quite a few inconsistancies are alleviated. It isn't a total fix, but it does at least begin to help.

ES_Riddle

Oct 20 2004, 04:12 AM

QUOTE (cheeze monger @ Oct 19 2004, 09:04 PM)

I'd say that's cheap, because someone who's partially trained in stealth blows in comparison to somone who's not trained. Any ideas on how to balance it out?

Your odds of getting a decent number on 2 dice are not great, that's true. Your chances of rolling an 8 or better are 1-(31/36)^2=25%. On 8 dice with a -4 modifier you would have 1-(35/36)^8=20%. I'd hardly say that the person who is partially trained blows in comparison to the untrained person.

If you have a stealth rating of 1 for some reason, you could still choose to default if I'm reading the rules on page 84 correctly where it says, "A character may have several options, and the player may choose whichever route seems most advantageous to him or her." I could be way off base, though.

DrJest

Oct 20 2004, 07:09 AM

I don't know if this is in the revised SRC for 3rd, ed, but in my 2nd ed version there's Partial Defaulting:

"Calculate the average of the original skill rating and the default skill/Attribute rating. The character then uses that average rating for the test. The test target modifier equals half of the target modifier incurred for a standard default."

mfb

Oct 20 2004, 07:35 AM

nope, no partial defaulting in SR3.

DrJest

Oct 20 2004, 08:08 AM

I wonder if that's because they chose to play up the effect of Attributes by using them to limit skill levels? Seems a bit of a shame, really, since partial defaulting made sense. I may keep it anyway.