What about EM spells that only do indirect damage by producing the EM effect?

So...

A fireball that would do no direct damage but force flamable things to see if they combust? A stunblast that would force people to make knockdown checks? Lightining that would possible short out computers, etc.?

The staged-up Damage Level of the spell would only be used for determining how strong the EM effects would be.

Any thoughts?

I think that the secondary affects are too powerful, if people are asking for spells that just do the secondary affects.

Note that secondary effects are determined based upon the damage the effect has. So if you have a spell that only causes secondary effects but no damage, then, well, it's not going to do anything since even Light damage results in no secondary effect.

I was trying to think of a spell that would just knock folks down without wounding them (semi-clout if you will). Got me thinking if it would be possible to create spells that just did EM effects but no direct damage.

I suppose you could think of it like Fire heats a surface until it combusts, Water would cause condensation of moisture, Air would be, well gusts of air, Electricity would be generating static charge, Stun would be knocking things down, etc.

Well, that's covered by the normal Elemental Manipulations. The primary damage done *is* caused by the elemental effect. Secondary effects are precisely that; the secondary effects beyond the raw damage.

Stun variations (complete with the lowered Stun Spell modifier) are perfectly viable for several elemental effects, though most of them detail this in their description (like Water for instance). You could also argue that it could be applied to a few others, like a Snowball spell that's a Stun variant of an Ice elemental manipulation.

I thought the only requirement for secondary effects to come into play is that the spell had to be cast at M damage or greater. E.g., a force 1(D) Fireball, while fairly easy to stage down to L or less, would still potentially cook ammo on the target. Meanwhile, a force 6(L) Fireball wouldn't produce any secondary effects at all, regardless of whether or not the target took damage.

Unfortunately, I don't have my books here at work, so I could be talking out of my ass again (wouldn't be the first time;)).

this seems like a pretty cool concept, so i'd probably allow it. i would apply the following modifiers:

Power - Physical Spell, Restricted Target (non-living), Symptoms Only (normally for Health spells, but i think it's appropriate)

Level: Area Spell, Elemental effect

So running with my idea, you'd cast the spell just like any other EM spell, stage up the damage, but you'd only use that to determine "how hard" the effects hit. As it was mentioned, you need to do M, S or D or have the effects be useful, and for things like knockdown, the Wound Level would be necessary.

What spurred me to Dumpshock this, was how to calculate drain? I figured it would be a staged down version of the regular damaging counterparts, but there was no modifier for just secondary elemental effects without doing primary damage.

So this is just a limited affect, area effect form of Magic Fingers? I'd go with telekinetic manipulaiton on this one. Easier to cast, hit, and light drain.

In case you haven't seen it yet, Grinder. Look up the spells Thunderbolt and Thunderclap in MitS, it sounds a lot like what you might be looking for.

I did something like this for an "EMP" spell, but my GM sure didn't let me stage down any drain modifiers (I don't have my notes with me, but total drain modifiers were +3/+1) and getting past material resistance is a royal pain. But when it works, it's magic...

Restricted variant of Magic Fingers: "Shove"
Same drain as "use (skill)" provides knockdown as if hit by (successes up to force) strength melee at Moderate damage. Successes can be switched from increasing the strength of the shove to scale up the severity of the shove. Successes past the force of the spell are assumed to increase the severity.