Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Declaring Actions
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
This is a simple question with possibly a not so simple answer: how much detail must a character give when declaring their actions?

Could a character say "I'm going to run through the door and shoot anyone I see inside."? If so, what if they saw a little girl selling girlscout cookies, must they shoot her?

Could a character declare that he was going to shoot a goon and then if that goon fell, shoot another one, else he will shoot the same one again?

We are used to playing D20 where character's decide on a step-by-step basis what they are doing and we are having a hard time deciding just how specific declaring actions must be.
I'd say it's up to the players and the GM. In the first case (enter the room and shoot anything in there) I'd have the player roll perception. If they pass the TN I decide counts for noticing that it's a girlscout and not a cyberzombie, then they pull up short and don't shoot her. If they don't notice, then she's a goner.

In the second case, I usually let the players declare each simple action at once that way they can shoot once and then I'll ask them what they want to do. That way they can decide what to do.

Players: "We kick in the door and shoot the cyberzombie!"
GM: "Roll Perception."
Players: <roll dice>
GM: "It's a Girl Scout."
Players: "Oh $&*#$^!, don't shoot!"
GM: "You lose initiative as the girl scout grows fangs and launchs herself at you..."
Players: "&#^(*)!"

Or, let's be honest:

GM: "It's a girl scout."
Players: "Shoot her, loot the cookie money, sell the body for parts and steal the cookies."

Ooooh.... I love that idea, Siege! Thanks, I'll be sure to use it in my campaign. vegm.gif

Shapechanger girl scouts...maybe I can train my players to kill all girl scouts on sight because it's a conspiracy - anything that sells cookies THAT good MUST be evil.
Seige you had a rough childhood didn't you? HAHA.

But anyways if one of my players declared they were going to kick down a door and lay waste to anything that moves I would let them at least get a perception test probably a 6 since they all ready have the mind set to shoot anything that moves. I'd even go higher if said person had wired reflexes or any kind of speed booster. Course I'm a bastard like that and some times its funny to see a girlscout or two get wasted, hey its life. I've even had pedestrians stumble into a car chase, helps to keep things real. If only "bad" guys die by player actions it begins to lose the feel of reality.

Remember sometimes its good to remind your players that all action have consequences some times good some times bad.

Shapechanger girl scouts or Girl Scouts with a lot of augmentations, combat drug auto-injectors and bioware fangs. grinbig.gif

How many players stop to make a Perception test to see if the Girl Scout standing in front of them really is a girl scout?

As for the other, considering some of the players on this board, they really would shoot, loot and scoot. The cookies would just be a bonus. grinbig.gif

Herald of Verjigorm
However, many PCs don't check Girl Scout cookies for ingested (or contact) vector toxins...
Players: "We mug the Girl Scout and steal her cookies! Muahahahah!"
Players: <munch munch munch>
Girl Scout: "Gentlemen, the cookies are 5 nuyen a box. The antidote is 50k per dose. Please see "Big Momma" to settle up your account."

On the girlscout vein, I had a dwarf mage who liked to walk around phys. masked to avoid enemies spotting him. The GM had ruled that he had to look like someone about his height, and as he wanted to avoid looking like a dwarf, he went around looking like a child. Specifically, a little girl. Specifically, a little girl in a frilly dress with a parasol over her shoulder, that was in fact the fully-automatic military shotgun the dwarf liked to carry.

I'm sure the Orc gang members I came across, if they ever regained consciousness, were a lot nicer to little girls from then on.
Keep in mind that the entire round is 3 seconds.

"I kick in the door and lay waist to everything in there", actually requires many little things like anything on the other side rolling a surprise, the character using one simple action to kick the door and another to shoot a semi-auto or burst fire (practically) blindly into the room.

If now, they say something like, "I kick in the door and launch a grenade inside", I let them.
It's up to me as to who was in there, and what happened in there because of it.

But for them, they just used up a pass to kick that door in and shoot a grenade inside. That could really suck for them cause guess what...they can't run now.
Smooth move genius. Guess what's about to explode in a confined space with the only exit for air flow being the door you're standing in?
QUOTE (Siege)
Players: "We mug the Girl Scout and steal her cookies!  Muahahahah!"
Players: <munch munch munch>
Girl Scout: "Gentlemen, the cookies are 5 nuyen a box.  The antidote is 50k per dose.  Please see "Big Momma" to settle up your account."

The White Dwarf
Not sure why this is even here... what reason would a player have for declaring his actions in any fashion than other as he would make the decision in realtime. Theres no game rule where you have to declare in advance. Just spend each action as it comes, realtime. Maybe if you clarify the problem Id have a better answer... but really saying "I move into the room, what do I see, ok I shoot the bad guy with a simple, ok I shoot him again since he lived with the last simple" sorta covers the bases doesnt it?
Ol' Scratch
Actually you're supposed to declare your actions for the entire initiative phase when your turn comes up and then resolve them once you declare them. That means you have to spend your Complex/2 Simple Actions and Free Action (if you want to use it then) at one time, then it's resolved.

So no, legally, you can't use a Simple Action, wait to see how it turns out, then use another Simple Action.
Having to declare your full initiative parse before it is resolved dose make some sense. Your not necessarily going to know wether your shot was effective in the half second you have to aim and place your second shot (time based on 3 passes and half the time during the pass being between the first and second shots).

When you say “I move threw the door way and shoot anybody that is in the room” there are several things that could happen.

If there where 3 enemies in the room the GM will likely give you a 1 sentence description of each and ask witch your going to shoot first, the human with the HMG the trole with the gold coloured combat axe or the albino gnome with a 6” oricalum rod (response must be delivered quickly by the player, no thinking about it).

If there are 2 enemies and an innocent child in the room the GM would probably do the same and provide you responded fast OOC it would be the obvious threats that went down first. If the girl has a weapon out role perception against the conceal ability of the girls weapon +cyber initiative boosters to have that included in the description.

It therefore follows that there is time to make a decision after entering the room. So if the girl is alone you could choose not to shoot her. Of cause this may call for a perception check if (and only if) the character charging in has cyber (or drug based) initiative enhancers. Probably DC 2+level of enhancement to avoid shooting the kid

Kremlin KOA
edward, that gnome has it's own bloody kickstand
I know it is canon, but I wonder does anyone ever use that? I leave it up to my players in general except that I allow someone who beats you in initiative to demand to know what you will do in your next pass.. at that time you have to declare it but in general combat rounds turn really odd if you do that for all characters and I have never seen it done, does anyone actually play like this?

Actually, if he can say whatever he likes as long as he calls out his actions appropriately on his Combat Phase.

For example, he could say he is going to shoot whatever he sees in the room and declare as his action to be fire on full auto. At best, the GM could tell him is that there are 3 people in the room.

If he had Observed as a free action, it would be "There are 3 people in the room. A troll with a gun, a human holding onto the arm of a little girl whose back is towards you."

If he Observed in Detail as a simple action, it would be ""There are 3 people in the room. A troll with a taser, a human with fetishes holding onto the arm of a little girl whose back is towards you." This would leave him with still a Simple to fire a Burst.
Crusher Bob
Also note that there are 'combat perception' skills developed that tell you what to look and want waht is important.

Things like 'whats in thier hands'. If your hands are full, your chances of being toasted go way up, there are plenty of AK toting kids out there.

IMHO, what needs to be more enforced is the details you get from 'free' perception vs simple action perception. A lot of IRL combat time is spent trying to see what is going on. Also, this is why time limited actions like room clearing teach what to do with the much more limited information available from 'free' perception:

Is the couch big enough to hide someone, if yes, fire a burst into it. Is the targets hands full? if yes, toast it. Notice that these are much more 'military' rrather than police tactics. So also, your actions have to do with your background, training, and experience.

So Mr fashioinable runner's 'free' perception might give: He's wearing a hand tailored suit, a fashionable tie, and expensive sunglasses... and, oh yeah, he's got a gun.

Mr military runner's 'free' perception might say: he's wearing a suit and sunglasses, and holding an AKSU, he's covering 'X' (area of the room, person, whatever) with it, he looks surprised.

Mr psycologist runner's 'free' perception might say: suit, tie, sunglasses, gun, he looks surprised, also he looks like this is the first time he's held a gun before.
toturi: don't forget he has to kick the door in still. grinbig.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012