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I was just reading MiTS under the ally spirit powers (materialization) and it got me to there anything in the rules that limit how large an ally spirit can be when it manifests? Could you summon and materialize one that was 100 feet tall?
I'm sure we could recommend some formulas to hide behind, based on Force, but at the end of the day it's up to the GM.
Other than that, I don't know of any official rules for spirit size.
Well, all I can think of is the description for Mountain Spirits. I don't remember the exact wording, but in astral they are described as being a massive presence. However, this is only in the astral, not materialized.

In my opinion, you could probably base the size on the body. I just don't see a body 2 spirit being the size of an airplane, but a body 8 fire elemental could materialize as a hige dragon or something.
There is an eyewitness account of a fire elemental the size of a mountain, but the force or indeed veracity of that incident is unknown.

The maximum size of an ally spirit is whatever you can slide past your GM.

The ally spirit rules are very confusing and very GM dependent. For example, my current SR GM has decided to just put his foot down with "Motorcycle" as the most complex thing a spirit can be. This was in responce to "...So, how about a nuclear bomb form?"

One of these days, I'm going to just re-write those damn things so there's less ambiguity.
You could just limit the maxiumum volume of space a spirit's materialized form can occupy is equal to it's Force (plus Spirit Energy if applicable) cubed, in cubic meters.

Max Size = [Force + Spirit Energy]^3 in cubic meters

This keeps Force 1 spirits limited to things the size of average metahumans and animals (anything that could curl up and fit into a cubic box 1 meter [3.28 ft] per side), while powerful free spirits (Force 8 ) could appear as a ghostly WWII fighter or San Francisco cable car.

I think it's a fairly simple way to handle it.
Rory Blackhand
I don't know if this has been discussed, but could a spirit manifest itself as a functional piece of gear? Like a suit of environmentaly sealed security armor, for example. And if the spirit was force 8 let's say. What would the armor rating of the person inside be if he was attacked? Hardened 8? Just curious how that would work.
What like a Motorcycle that works?

Been done in the Novels.
Kanada Ten
Just curious how that would work.

If the old forums worked I would just link the arguments we had, but for me, wearing you're ally doesn't sound like a wise idea... even more so when you talk about high force.

As for a functional items, I prefer to say mimics functionality, not actual functionality. An ally spirt with the form of a computer would be able to perform whatever functions it could perform if asked while in human form, but not interface with the Matrix or ASIST technology or chips or ect. A gun ally would not fire bullets, but could cast spells to mimic the firing of bullets. Vehicle allys movement rate is still based on Quickness (though I allow a running multiplier similar to those given to critters with similar locomotion methods). YMMV
QUOTE (Shockwave_IIc)
What like a Motorcycle that works?

Been done in the Novels.

Yep, and it wasn't the first time a novel totally violated game mechanics, or raped the universe for what the author thought was "cool".
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (BitBasher @ Nov 1 2004, 06:34 PM)
Yep, and it wasn't the first time a novel totally violated game mechanics, or raped the universe for what the author thought was "cool".

Except that this is one case where it doesn't violate game mechanics or rape the universe.

MitS p. 110, Ally Spirit, Appearance: "This form, and any additional forms, can be anything at all, from a metahuman to an animal to a mechanical device, subject to gamemaster approval."

I believe the Grimoire had similar text.
Ol' Scratch
Shoot, I forgot to finish my thought last time.

Basically as far I see it, a street mage with a familiar in the form of a motorcycle is the 206x-version of a witch on a broomstick. As long as both the player(s) and the GM are reasonable and it fits the character's concept, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing something like that. I mean, egads, the player has access to a motorcycle now. The horror!

And yes, it *is* the GM's job to be responsible and not let players do anything they want (like the retarded suggestion about a nuclear bomb). But stomping down your foot angrily and denying all possible forms because some retarded player asked something like that is just... and I know I'm wearing this word down lately, but I got's nuffin' else... lame.
If you absolutely feel you must limit it, limit it to the spirit's normal movement rate.

Me, I'd allow an ally spirit nuclear weapon. I'd also require a different form for every state of radioactive decay. Yes, this means that an ally spirit atomic clock would not work properly. No, I would not be so strict about mechanical objects, because they're probably not trying to be silly.

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