http://www.tasteslikephoenix.com/articles/poison.pdf
Right at the top of the document....
I can't copy and paste because it's a PDF, but basically the authors of that article are saying that one paragraph from Man and Machine that describes drug effects is directly pirated from one of their manuscripts.
....
JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!
Full Version: Tastes Like Pheonix accuses Shadowrun of piracy!
Umm, hate to break it to them, if they submitted for the Cyberpirates (I believe that is the book they say the material was cut from) then EVERYTHING that was submitted belongs to them and they don't necessarily have to re-credit them since they were already credited (and paid) with Cyberpirates.
I'm confused...isn't Cyberpirates a Shadowrun publication? How could SR developers steal from SR developers?
I think it depends on the agreement - some artists are credited every time their art is used because the contract stipulates as such.
However, writers usually don't get the same deal unless the particular material is wholly owned by the writer.
A freelancer who contributed to SotA:64 wouldn't be the same as Emily Dickenson giving permission for a poem to be printed in an anthology of literature.
-Siege
However, writers usually don't get the same deal unless the particular material is wholly owned by the writer.
A freelancer who contributed to SotA:64 wouldn't be the same as Emily Dickenson giving permission for a poem to be printed in an anthology of literature.
-Siege
On the other hand that PDF seems to consist almost entirely of material they presumably wrote on contract to fasa and is chock full of shadowrun IP they are almost certainly publishing in violation of copyright.
It seems to me that they were merely adding house rules for the game. The other bit wasn't a copyright question, just irritation on something they wrote getting changed in the editorial process.
...Whiners. 
I've got the Cyberpirates proposals, notes and drafts. If Hepler and Brandes say that FASA murdered their manuscript I'd say it's possible (haven't got the time or patience to read it, sorry). The proposal outline they did was 32 pages and enormous in scope. They obviously took their research very, very seriously.
On the other hand I've also got the total amount FASA budgeted for writing costs on the project. I seriously doubt an author getting paid less than that would be keeping perpetual attribution rights. I'd also say that going into a project hoping that FASA will put "RECOMMENDED FOR MATURE READERS" on the back cover of an SR sourcebook is a bit unrealistic -- even in 1997.
On the other hand I've also got the total amount FASA budgeted for writing costs on the project. I seriously doubt an author getting paid less than that would be keeping perpetual attribution rights. I'd also say that going into a project hoping that FASA will put "RECOMMENDED FOR MATURE READERS" on the back cover of an SR sourcebook is a bit unrealistic -- even in 1997.
Yeah, it's not the first time Chris Hepler (specifically) has bitched about working on Shadowrun.
Under current FanPro freelancer contracts writers sign away title to whatever is written and submitted to FanPro during development. Writers get paid once and that is for the one book they are working on. FanPro retains the right to republish or reuse the material in the same (or altered) format later on (like the stuff in SSC and Cybertech which is now in SR3 or the Shadowtech stuff modified for Man & Machine).
Yes, this means the manuscript you hand in can come out of the development process looking completely different in print. You know that going in.
Somehow I doubt FASA contracts were much different, but I could be wrong.
Yes, this means the manuscript you hand in can come out of the development process looking completely different in print. You know that going in.
Somehow I doubt FASA contracts were much different, but I could be wrong.
| QUOTE |
| Anyone considering writing for Shadowrun professionally can draw their own conclusions about the ethics of the line developers and the FASA Corporation, and the chances of meeting a similar fate. |
(add on the following)"...but if you are considering writing for Shadowrun unprofessionally like we are after stating that we are pissed at FASA and trying to give them a bad name, by all means, go for it!"
That makes no sense to me.
They bitch about it and then go on to write an entire rule set for SR and release it for free completely unlicensed.
In fact...They never list one ownership right to the material in that document anywhere in the entire document.
As well, they do not supply any factual information to support their claim that they wrote the alleged coppied information.
They only claimed that it was on their hard drive before Shadowrun printed it.
Well...guess what? If I could win with that...hell! I'd be filthy fricken rich from all the ideas I've had that I saw someone else produce.
All in all. This whole thing doesn't add up to any form of professionalism in anyway what-so-ever.
If it did, then by all merits any of the dumpshock threads with banterings on them and house rules could be called professional quality.
Eh - it was a pet peeve by people who may (or may not) have read the contract before they signed it and choose to air their gripes in a uncontested forum (their own).
-Siege
-Siege
Just to add a few things... Chris and Jen (The authors from tastes Like Phoenix) did a bunch of stuff for FASA for a couple years, including running the Shadowrun Tourney at Origins for a year or two. I don;t know all the details, nor do I want to drag out a bunch of dirt, but basically from what I heard from the FASA guys the year Zach Bush, Rich Tomasso, and Myself picked up the Origins Tournament at the last minute, they were offered a writing contract elsewhere, and bailed on some things for FASA.
FASA was understandably upset, and their material for Cyberpirates was the last bit of work they accepted and paid them for. It was also heavily edited and some significant changes made to it prior to being published, and apparently they were not only not told about the changes due to the stuff between them and FASA, but they were apparently highly offended and upset about the changes to their work. Which strikes me as funny, since the developers and editors will often wreck havoc with your finished writing... Ask any of the Freelancers here. Few things survive totally intact.
<shurg>
I'm sure there's more to it I'm unaware of, and like all situations like this, Chris and Jen likely have a different view and version of what happened.
Bull
FASA was understandably upset, and their material for Cyberpirates was the last bit of work they accepted and paid them for. It was also heavily edited and some significant changes made to it prior to being published, and apparently they were not only not told about the changes due to the stuff between them and FASA, but they were apparently highly offended and upset about the changes to their work. Which strikes me as funny, since the developers and editors will often wreck havoc with your finished writing... Ask any of the Freelancers here. Few things survive totally intact.
<shurg>
I'm sure there's more to it I'm unaware of, and like all situations like this, Chris and Jen likely have a different view and version of what happened.
Bull
| QUOTE (Bull) |
| Which strikes me as funny, since the developers and editors will often wreck havoc with your finished writing... Ask any of the Freelancers here. Few things survive totally intact. |
Indeed. Many Battletech first drafts get butchered by the volunteer reviewers and fact checkers before the editors get ahold of it.
I have had whole chunks - pages - of my words incorporated almost verbatim into a BT book, but I was submitting those words as last-minute suggested fixes to the existing draft. So someone's hard work ended up being completely overwritten, and I didn't know my words were being used until I opened a copy of the book at a game store.
| QUOTE |
| I'm sure there's more to it I'm unaware of, and like all situations like this, Chris and Jen likely have a different view and version of what happened |
I'd be curious to see a more detailed version of their side of the story, too. There's always two sides to a story, and there's always spin to both versions.
Eh - it's all good.
I can't say as I'm going to lose sleep over wounded prides on the 'Net.
-Siege
I can't say as I'm going to lose sleep over wounded prides on the 'Net.
-Siege
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