Hey all, me again, for another metamagic discussion. This time, my question is about Centering.

The 3rd ver has made this somewhat harsher than 2nd in the sense that one needs 2 skills; the creative (which is usually a non-combative knowledge skill) and the active skill Centering (linked to willpower).

The typical examples cited are Singing, Dancing, Latin (and presumably other ancient languages) and Kata meditation. MitS says that others are at the discretion of the players/gms.

Some questions: There's no question that Latin is a language (duh!). But are Singing/Dancing/etc Knowledge skills? One would think those should be Active. The reason I bring it up is that the difference has direct consequences on how much it costs to buy the skill up, with Know and Lang skills being cheaper than Active skills. If those are Knowledge, then there isn't an issue (assuming people don't have disagreements with the concept). If those are active, then why would someone necessarily want to spend "more" Karma (always in short supply when talking about magicians) for something that doesn't seem to have an appreciable benefit?

Next, is it a requirement that any Centering skill must be able to be neutralized? One can't Sing or speak Latin if gagged. One can't Dance or do Martial Arts Kata if tied up. Has anyone come up with a Centering Creative skill that cannot be neutralized or is it an unwritten rule given that any such skill has to be able to be prevented?

Related: Physically gagging obviously stops Latin/Singing. But does a Silence spell do so? One could argue that the person is Singing/speaking just fine, but simply can't be heard. Or is it a requirement that the speech be heard to be effective? Same for Dancing; can one Dance if Levitated? Feet/hands can move, but are no longer touching the floor. Counts or not? It would certainly make less noise if one can Dance in the air. Or perhaps if one is a fan of Lionel Richie, follow his example from the 1986 pop jingle "Dancing on the Ceiling".

Finally, what other creative skills have other people come up in their campaigns? I was initially toying with music, but was put off because of the Active vs Knowledge costs (and not sure if I see my thief-shaman as a song-and-dance gal). I'm probably thinking of an ancient language (my GM is allowing Ancient Gaelic, which would fit her Irish heritage), but since I've not actually started, I'd like to see if others on this forum have come up with more clever or role-playing-interesting alternatives.

First: mentally replace "Active" with "Primary Shadowrunning skills" and "Knowledge" with "Secondary, complimentary, and character development skills." It's not perfect, but closer to the distinction.

As for limits on centering, the only real rule is that it not be a skill that provides a different inherent advantage in the most likely situations. The given example is archery as an invalid skill, but suggest Zen meditation as valid. Since most can meditate in almost any physical restriction (except unconciousness, and some still can then), being able to stop a person from centering isn't a serious attempt in the rules.

according to SOTA:64, artistic/performance skills are knowledge skills. i've never seen a character with Centering take an active skill as the linked skill. i guess it's just there as an option, or for NPC mages who aren't as worried about min/maxing themselves.

no, it's not a requirement that your creative skill be neutralizable. the example adept has Zen Meditation as his creative skill; i'd be hard pressed to find a situation in which a character couldn't use that. ("the mage casts Anti-Zen Field, force 5!")

good questions. i'd probably say that Silence stops singing/speaking, but that levitation doesn't stop dancing.

my adept uses Looking Good in Shades as his linked skill. haven't seen many other really creative creative skills.

I wonder if Performance or Meditation type skills used for Centering should have a test with a TN equal to 4, plus injury modifiers, and perhaps plus other distractions, such as being blind for dancing, deaf for singing/chanting, or so forth.

I can't remember who said it first, if I read it here or elsewhere, but it goes something like:

"Any system where Etiquette is an Active Skill and Dancing is a Knowledge Skill, is not a system to be trifled with."

Actually, I may be mixing it up further. It seems to me the original quote I am thinking of went like, "Any society that makes Al Davis the head of a sprots franchise and puts Sonny Barger in jail is not a society to be @#$^&ed with." But the Dancing Knowledge skill was brought up somewhere, possibly on this board, and I just wanted to say to whoever said it, I always agreed with you, even if I forgot who you are.

Meditation could be neutralized by an extremely loud or distracting environment, or by effects from other things (drugs, wounds, etc.) disturbing the mage/adept's composure.

~J

Meditation should definitely be rolled against some environmentally-inspired TN in a crunch. I believe one of the balancing aspects of Centering is that it is an additional aspect of the casting that can be interfered with, and players trying to "zen" their way out of that can be fairly annoying.

I'm hesitant to ever say the PCs are in a situation where they can never dip into a meditative mindset, but I don't mind rachetting up the TN to insane levels if they're trying to do it in the middle of a gunfight, while drowning, crawling around the outside of Zurich-Orbital in their boxers, etc.

"This is how we walk the dog. And this *WooooPAaaaa* is how we break the troll"

Saw a mute magician use Sign Language and take the gesture geasa. He also had a Commlink 6, Radio 6, telephone and a Transducer so he could 'speak'.