Ok, i was thinking back to teh SR Street Samurai Catalog and i thought of the "Ork Street Samurai" and his "Organic Approach" to things. So i wondered....

Given the follow, would would make the best (in your opinion) "Combat bunny" I know it's moving away from the Ork samurai, but that only got me thinking...

Right then
Ork= 5 Bp
30 Attributes = 60 Bp
40 Skills = 40Bp
200,000 Nuyen = 15Bp
3 Bp spare for merits.

Ok first let me explain the resson for the low cash on such a character, Say he came up from the street and could only get enough cash to get basic stuff, though over time he's got better stuff but still nothing overly eye rising or top line.

He's still mostly human so i was thinking that his Essence should be at least 3+
Bio index, not wanting that to high, so more more then 2?
Oh and no real cyber thats totally obvious.

Smart links a must.
Other things that fit, Bone lacing, Spurs, Low lvl Sheath perhaps. Erm Dr F's fababled Skill Wires 3/ ECD 3? What would you take? Bioware Cultured if you want.

Im thinking a solid street player but not someone who would ever be a prime runner.

For starters, Priority C is only 90,000 nuyen. If you want 200,000 nuyen, you have to use the Build Point system and put 15 BP into Resources.

Since that's a big change, I'll wait to see what you want to do before offering advice. But if it were me, I'd swap my Skills and Resources priorities especially since you're interested in Skillwires.

Um, C Resources is 90,000¥.

Ah bollocks, second time thats got me..... (tooo many BP characters.....)

Sorted mate.


[EDIT]
The low resources is kinda what makes the character. The skillswires, i mention only cos they are effective, and hopefull Cheap (like the budgy)

Hmm, so a street-level tough guy with enough cyber and talent to make him an up-and-comer? Let's see (be sure to double check the numbers, these are all coming out of my memory)...

Attributes: Bod 9(12), Qui 6, Str 6, Cha 2, Int 4, Wil 6

Active Skills: Athletics 6, Bikes 2 (Chopper of Choice 4), Brawling 6 [Close Combat], Etiquette 2 (Street 4), Pistols 5 (Specialty of Choice 7), Pistols B/R 4, Stealth 6, Thrown Weapons 4

Edges & Flaws: Ambidexterity 4, Good Reputation 1, Police Record.

Cyberware:
Boosted Reflexes 1 (0.50e, 15,000¥)
Bone Lacing: Plastic (0.50e, 7,500¥)
Cybereyes (0.16e, 10,000¥) (Alphagrade)
> Eye Light Systems (0.16e, 2,400¥) [essence covered by free space]
> Flare Compensation (0.08e, 2,000¥) [essence covered by free space]
> Image Link (0.16e, 3,200¥) [essence covered by free space]
> Low-Light Vision (0.16e, 6,000¥) [0.06e burned beyond the free space]
Dampener (0.10e, 3,500¥)
Datajack (0.20e, 1,000¥)
> Transducer (0.10e, 2,000¥)
Dermal Sheath 1 (0.70e, 24,000¥)
Obvious Cyberhand (0.35e, 20,000¥)
> Direct Neural Interface (0.10e, 4,500¥, 0.25 ECU)
> Two DNI Memory Chips (2,000 Mp total) (6,000¥, 1.00 ECU)
> Smartlink-2 (0.25e, 3,500¥, 0.50 ECU)
> Storage Space (0.25 ECU)
Skillwires 3/27 (0.60e, 40,500¥)
> Chipjack (0.20e, 1,000¥)
> Chipjack Expert Driver 3 (0.30e, 15,000¥)

Bioware:
Enhanced Articulation (0.60b, 20,000¥) [Used; just requires a little stretching each morning]

Equipment:
ActiveSofts (5 of Choice, Rating 3) (27 Mp each) (2,700¥ each)
Two Pistols of Choice
Hardliner Gloves
Form-Fitting Full Body Armor (Chemical Seal 4)
Armored Jacket (Fire Resistance 4, Nonconductive 4)
Chopper of Choice [Used Model; -60% cost]

I think that comes out pretty close to 200,000¥, and he has tons of room to grow (Essence just under 2.0). If not, buy some of the cyberware as Used implants, explaining them either as implants you've had forever and have been through wear and tear, or maybe you actually bought them second-hand. Whatever works.

I know you wanted a higher Essence, and that's certainly doable by stripping away a few implants (I'd probably lose the eyes and just stick with HUD shades for the image link)... but anything above 1.5 is pretty good for a sammy-type. Just note that a low Essence doesn't make you "more machine than man." That's a pure roleplaying thing. Beyond that, did I miss anything?

EDIT: Cripes, I missed the spurs. Replace Brawling with Cyber-Implant Combat 5 (Spurs 7), drop Pistols B/R all together and lower Thrown Weapons to 2, grab Pentjak-Silat 4 and take Close Combat two times and bind one of them to your Cyber-Implant. That should balance your skills. Now, juggle your implants around for the retractable spurs and ditch the Hardliner Gloves. Sorry...

(Edit: n/m; I'm stupid. )

Yes, the entire Smartlink system is 0.5 ECU and 0.25 Essence. The induction pad by itself is only 0.25 ECU and 0.1 Essence.

Can you do that? At least one of the SL-2 systems needs to be stuck in your head, I thought?

It still is: that's why a smartlink in a cyberhand has a reduced Essense cost but is not totally "free", Essense-wise.

Arent Dermal sheaths obvious cyber?

Not as obvious as dermal plating.

I've tried this little challenge... I found it actually rather frustrating. The problem lies in the fact that with only 200k and 3 points of essence to work with. Alpha takes too much for most of the choice pieces of 'ware, and with 3 essence, Standard grade eats that essence up too fast.

The character I ended up with was simular to Doc's, including going over the essence limit by one. Those skillwires aren't cheap in either nuyen or essence.

I wasn't refering to Essence. The .25 for the Processor would be in addition of the Simrig. And the Induction Pad has no Essence cost when implanted alone in a Cyberhand.

I don't doubt you are right though. It's just like I said ... it seems weird that the Processor/Pad/Part of the Simrig all take up the same amount of space as a Datajack.

Smartlinks aren't that big, really. Unlike Datajacks, they don't have any external components other than an Induction Pad, and it shouldn't be that hard to just use the material used in Induction Pads as the palm of the cyberhand rather than the normal materials (hence no real need for ECU there, so only 0.25 for that part of it alone, leaving the other 0.25 for the rest of the system.. the limited simrig is probably already built into the arm, too, but just improved to account for the demands of the smartlink). SLs have a higher Essence, though, because they require more wiring into your system to power all the different parts. A datajack is pretty straight forward.

But yeah, the ECU rules are screwy. It's only 0.25 ECU to get a Direct Neural Interface, but if you want to put in a single microchip, it takes 0.50 ECU. Go figure.

Damn ... I didn't notice the ECU cost for DNI!

It should be possible to hook up multiple DNIed devices via a Router of some kind.

'Course. But you need the Direct Neural Interface to use DNI with anything you installed in the limb (in addition to paying the +50% cost for modifying anything not DNI-ready so that it will work with it, which is in addition to the x4 cost for making it a built-in accessory unless designed to be from the beginning).

It's also why I just get a Datajck. It comes with three router ports if memory serves, and I use that to route the Cyberlimb, the Chipjack/Skillwires, and the Cybereye (for the Image Link). All accessories are automatically routed together within the same implant.

Ok, if something would normally already be DNI-linked when implanted (like, for example, a Biometer), would it need to be DNIed again if implanted in a Cyberlimb?

For the router, I was refering to routing several DNI-linked devices, thereby reducing the actual connections needed.

Wait, are you saying you need to DNI-link the Cyberlimb itself, as well as all implanted devices? If I had three devices in the Cyberarm that needed connections, how many DNI-links would I need?

No, only items that aren't DNI-ready need to have the +50% price hike to make it so.

Define "DNI-linked devices." If a component is DNI-ready, it still needs the Direct Neural Interface to wire all those components to your brain unless they already are by default. A Smartlink doesn't require the Direct Neural Interface, but a Personal Comm Unit (despite being DNI-ready) would.

Ok, let's take the Cyberware Orientation System as an example. As it stands, it is normally implanted with a connection to the brain. If I were to implant it in a Cyberlimb, would I need to also install another DNI Interface for it?

Because the Orientation System works hand-in-hand with an implanted GPS, would I need an additional DNI Interface for it as well?

Since the BattleTac Link works hand in hand with the Orientation System (even acquiring a reduction in Essence and cost when implanted together), would it also require an additional DNI Interface (for a total of 3 if all three were implanted)?

Would I need to add a fourth Interface if I implanted a PCU with that BattleTac Link?

I would say that, by default, any cyberware installed in a cyberlimb is DNI-ready and includes everything you need to access it normally (even if it doesn't necessarily require any more Essence loss).

Any additional accessories you install need to be DNI-ready (+50% if not already so) and requires the Direct Neural Interface component. Pocket Secretaries, Remote Control Decks/Cyberdecks (as opposed to Cranial Decks), and Bug Scanners are all examples of accessories that need a Direct Neural Interface.

In the case of an Orientation System, you're better off just installing it normally if memory serves. I think the Essence cost is the same either way, so all it does is take up ECU.

No Essence cost for the OS when put in a Cyberlimb (except for the DNI Interface cost).

My question really was ... do any of these components work together enough to share a DNI Interface?

On, you only need one Direct Neural Interface to control everything in the limb. You don't need it for each component. But it only allows you to control DNI-ready components.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Thank you. That is what I really wanted to know. So I just hook that one DNI Interface to the Datajack Router and all's well? Excellent!

Right. And if you include it as one of the routers for your Datajack, it can be interfaced by anything else you route via the Datajack. That's why its a requirement (if using the interconnectivity rules) for the Skillwire system to work up above with the DNI memory.

Ok, once again, thanks. This has been a real help.

We've got to good characters so far, though both have broken the guidlines but as Tjn said, there a little tight.

Anymore throwing their hat in on this one?

They're DNI ready, but they need a Direct Neural Interface if you want to access them without using a datajack. Note the difference between my use of DNI (a modification to a piece of equipment to make it where you *can* control it through a datajack or the like) and Direct Neural Interface (a cyberlimb accessory that lets you control the devices in that cyberlimb via DNI). They really should have come up with another name for the Direct Neural Interface to help ease the confusion.

Basically, if they were installed in a limb, you would have to have a lead from the port on the outside of the limb, trailling up (say your arm) to the jack in your head. or you can get a "lead" install inside your arm going to your brain so that you have no messy wires for the little pukes to yank as they skate passed.

Right. The first one (the deck's datajack port) is basically "free" but has that obvious wire sticking out, while the latter (the Direct Neural Interface) costs 4,500 nuyen, 0.10 Essence, and 0.25 ECU. The latter is also nice because it's a one-time investment and allows you to control *everything* in that limb via the Direct Neural Interface as long as its DNI-ready.

Right. My point was you don't have to DNI-adapt a cyberdeck at the very least, as it's already DNI-adapted. Or am I wrong in this?

No, you're right. I see how you were misunderstanding me, though. My use of DNI and Direct Neural Interface without distinguishing between them better is pretty confusing... sorry.

What I was saying is that any non-cybernetic components you install that aren't already DNI-ready (of which things like Personal Comm Units and Cyberdecks are) require that 50% price hike, while those that are DNI-ready do not. On top of that, you also need the Direct Neural Interface accessory for the cyberlimb in order to control those devices.

Doc, in reference to DNI adaption, is the ability to link a single DNI to cover an entire cyberlimb your interpretation, or is there somewhere in canon that states that?

One of my gripes about cyberlimbs is the fact that the wording of the DNI entry strongly implies that each piece of equipment in a cyberlimb that is to be DNI'ed needed it's own DNI hook up.

I'd love you to be wrong too, but that was my original thought when reading up on DNI linking.

It comes from the rules for interconnectivity and use of a datajack. I don't have M&M handy to give you the page references. You connect entire implants together, not individual accessories/components within each implant. Once I get to my books again I'll try and hunt down the quote and page references for you guys.

pg 303, SR3

Okay, reread the interconnectivity rules.

It implies that the DNI isn't even needed, so long as the items themselves are already DNI capable. If the equipment inside of a cybereye doesn't need to be connected seperately, why should the equipment inside of a cyberarm?

Well, least it's not the first time Canon is inconsistant.

Yeah the Direct Neural Interface accessory is really only a requirement if you don't have a Datajack routed to the limb, but I always like to add it just because it feels wrong not to (thus you'll always see me include it in examples and recommend it if asked). In essence, everything in the limb is connected to everything else; if you have a Pocket Secretary and a Transciever installed, and both are DNI-ready, you can control both of them through one another through that single connection to the Cyberlimb itself. That connection can be through the single (no extra router ports) dedicated Datajack that is the Direct Neural Interface, or a regular Datajack routed through the limb.

In a nutshell, I see the Direct Neural Interface as the glue that insures all the components in a cyberlimb are connected to one another. Without it, it could be argued that each is a seperate item since there's no real need for them to be connected as the cyberlimb is little more than storage space.

The rules themselves are consistant if poorly worded. I was just letting my preferences guide my comments. Sorry for any confusion.

Here are some quotes and page references as promised:

M&M p. 46, Interconnectivity: "Routers and datajacks facility the flow of information between linked cyberware devices much like a computer network." [...] "Any device connected to a datajack or router port can exchange data with any other device so connected." [...] "If any such linked device is also connected to another in some way, any devices that are part of the 'chain' may communicate."

M&M p. 46, Interconnectivity: "Devices that are considered accessories to another device do not need to be linked in this way [via a router port or datajack], as they are already integrally connected to the device to which they are an accessory." [...] "Likewise, components of a particular 'system' do not need to be linked via router or datajack because they are integrally linked to the system of which they are a part."

That satisfy everyone?

If you read carefully in M&M on page 36, the "Equipment Capacity Cost Table" there is an asterix (*) at the bottom of the page. It says clearly that any item marked with an (*) is NOT cybernetically controlled and wired to your nervous system.

With this knowledge in mind we can assume that cyberlimbs have a few extra neural connections for Spurs, foot anchor and other equipment since they are labeled as "cybernetically controlled" as they lack a (*). Here's the fun part.

Do you lack a bit off essence for that juicy little piece of cyberholster? Easy to fix. Now, according to the rules that piece takes essence and it is "probably" because it needed an extra neural connection that couldn't be a learned muscle reflex (like for example a spur could be made to pop out with). We redesign the cyber holster with a DNI modification (150% of normal price) and install it in the leg with a cost of (0) essence. The downside with this is of course, the price.

On another little note. The entire Smartlink costs 0,5 essence INCLUDING induction pad and that won't take up any essence when we connect it to a cyberlimb because it is directly connected to a smartlink system and not to a persons nerve system.

Now, when it is installed in a cyberlimb/torso/skull etc then it only takes up 0,25 E and 0,5ECU, fine, but we can make it take up less. In short, if installed in a cyberlimb the smartlink system takes 50% less space, but need ECU space instead, fine, let's cut it down in subsystems instead.

Take the "eye display" and put it in a cybereye (0,1 E)
Take the "Induction Pad" and put it in a cyberhand. (0,1 E)

What have we left?

Smartlink Processor (0,2 E)
Limited Simsense rig (0,1 E)

NOW we install the above ware in our characters cyberskull and it will take up 0,5 ECU and 50% of the Essence, in this case 0,15 instead of the normal 0,25

What do you think, feasible? Some would probably warn me about munchkinite but it all evens out, in money...

Heres my attempt at getting this thread back on track:
Ork= 5 Bp
30 Attributes = 60 Bp
40 Skills = 40Bp
200,000 Nuyen = 15Bp
3 Bp spare for merits.


B: 6
Q: 6
S: 6
C: 5
I: 5
W: 5
E: 3.4
R: 5 (8) + 2D6
B.I.: 0.9


Athletics: 3 (6)
Bike: 4 (5)
Biotech: 1
-First Aid: 3
Clubs: 3 (4)
-AZ-150 Stun Batons: 5 (6)
Electronics: 3
Etiquette: 4
Shotguns: 4 (5)
Throwing Weapons: 3 (4)
Pistols: 5 (6)
Stealth: 4 (5)
Unarmed Combat: 5 (6)

Knowledge skills:
Botany: 4
Chemistry: 4
Gang Identification: 3
Law: 3
Lonestar Procedures: 3
Triad Politics: 4
Safehouse Locations: 4


Bioware:
(40,000 0.6) Enhanced Articulation
(15,000 0.3) Syntha Cardium: 2

Cyberware
(2,500 0.5) Smartlink: 1
(55,000 2) Wired Reflexes: 1
(1,000 0.1) Retinal Mod Flare comp
57,500


Contacts:
(free) Mr. Fixit (p. 47 MJLBB)
(free) Supply Sergent (p. 39 MJLBB)
(10,000) Shark Lawyer (p.55 MJLBB)
(10,000) Joy girl (p. 51 MJLBB) sister
(5000) Ork Nation Organizer (p. 44 MJLBB)

(4500) 3 AZ-150 Stun Batons
(700) Walther PB
(2200) 4 Ares Predator 2 w/ smartlink
(2500) Remmington 990 w/ ext smartlink
(1000) 2 Defiance T-250
(400) 20 Throwing Knives
(275) 50 Exlposive rounds + clips for Walther
(435) 180 Regular rounds + clips for Predators
(200) 100 Regular rounds for shotguns
(180) 6 Defensive HE grenades
(26,300) BMW Blitzen 2050 (Black with sliver trim)
(250) Medkit w/ extra Supplies
(250) Ascent/Decent Kit
(125) 50m of rope
(300) 3 Conceal Holsters
(2650) Actioneer Line
(200) Armor Vest
(600) Armor Vest w/ Plates
(700) Lined Coat
(900) Armored Jacket
(500) 10 sets of ordinary clothing
(3,000) Low Lifestyle Basement apartment in Auburn
(3,000) Low Lifestyle Apartment in Redmond
(10,200) (2) Bugout Bag:
• (50) Bag
• (2,000) Certified Credstick w/ 2,000¥
• (500) 500¥ in script
• (550) Ares Predator 2 w/ int smartlink
• (30) 15 regular rounds
• (155) Spare clip w/ 15 Ex-explosive rounds
• (80) Spare clip w/ 15 Hollow point rounds
• (150) Quick Draw Holster (concealed)
• (60) 2 smoke grenades
• (450) Survival knife
• (10) 35 meters of duct tape
• (50) Handset cell phone
• (100) Survival Kit
• (250) Medkit w/ extra supplies
• (25) Heavy denim jeans
• (25) Synth Wool Sweater
• (10) 2 changes of underware
• (10) 2 changes of synth wool socks
• (5) Towel
• (50) Leather gloves w/ wool liners
• (40) Mini-Mag light w/ extra bulb, two changes of batteries
• (30) 6 while glowsticks
• (40) Food bag w/ dry cereal, coffee grounds, jerky, ramen noodles, multi vitamins
• (50) Camal Pak
• (80) Sleeping bag
• (50) Thermal blanket

Cash Left: 1,135K

I think it'd be worth your while to ditch the Smartlink Eye Display, and pick up an Image Link. Then shave a little money off somewhere and invest in a Datajack and a Knowsoft Link (or even a Chipjack). These are incredibly useful in the '60s ... almost to useful to do without.

"If the past few days have taught me anything, its that its better to have a gun, and not need it, then to need a gun and not have it."

Yeah but ...

"If the past few days have taught me anything, its that its better to have a change of underwear, and not need it, then to need a change of underwear and not have it."

... just doesn't have the same ring to it. Not that it's any less true.

But ...

"If the past few days have taught me anything, its that its better to have a towel, and not need it, then to need a towel and not have it."

... has a totally different connotation to it.

But if you ever need a gun, and don't have one, and somehow survive, then a towel and a change of underwear would probably come in real handy.