A few things that come through my humble mind...
Don't you think Missile Mastery is a bit underpowered? Let me put it this way: you pay 1 Power point and what you get is a mere +1 Power on throwing weapons (plus the side benefit of being able to throw any item as a (weak) weapon à la Bullseye). Would it be unbalancing for the game to give a raise in Damage Level instead, for example shurikens would be (Strength) M instead of (Strength +1 ) L ?
Full Version: Missile Mastery
it's actually +2 power, which isn't too shabby, though I agree it's not quite up to a full power point's worth of effect. I also add 2 to the thrower's strength for ranged. I also allow them to throw mini-grenades barehanded. Same effect as a handgrenade, only pocket-sized.
I'd have to recheck, but I don't think you can manually use mini-grenades that way, at least IRL.
Anyways, I house rule this power down to half a point.
Anyways, I house rule this power down to half a point.
IRL, the launched grenades of today can be tossed...IF (please, note the "IF". It's important.) you can manage to spin them fast enough, long enough, precisely enough to arm them. While I don't know the specifics, I'm fairly sure this is mostly impossible for a normal person to do, especially to get any range on the throw (and avoid blowing oneself up).
With that in mind, I think that, with Missile Mastery, an adept who knows the trick and the requirements for the particular grenade in question, can accurately reproduce the spin to arm the grenade. Especially since we're talking about someone who can kill you with a credit card from half-way across the room. I would require they practice a bit with a given style, manufacturer, model, etc before they could be sure of near-100% reliability, but that's neither here nor there.
With that in mind, I think that, with Missile Mastery, an adept who knows the trick and the requirements for the particular grenade in question, can accurately reproduce the spin to arm the grenade. Especially since we're talking about someone who can kill you with a credit card from half-way across the room. I would require they practice a bit with a given style, manufacturer, model, etc before they could be sure of near-100% reliability, but that's neither here nor there.
| QUOTE (Bigity) |
| I don't think you can manually use mini-grenades that way, at least IRL. |
Grenade launcher rounds cannot be employed like that IRL, no. But SR "Minigrenades" act somewhat unlike RL grenade launcher rounds anyway -- for example, the implied "bouncing around" effect when they should just go off on impact. And Missile Mastery is maaaaagic, no reason why that couldn't allow Minigrenades to be thrown effectively.
Anybody know if TM 43-0001-21 Army Ammunition Data Sheets for Artillery Ammunition: Guns, Howitzers, Mortars, Recoilless Rifles, Grenade Launchers, and Artillery Fuzes is available free on the net?
I believe there's a relatively simple modification to the grenades in SR3 allowing them to be tossed.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| But SR "Minigrenades" act somewhat unlike RL grenade launcher rounds anyway -- for example, the implied "bouncing around" effect when they should just go off on impact. |
In my game, they go off on impact. And I've always seen them as like today's spin-armed launched grenades, only smaller. And filled with an explosive form of Unbelievium. Or perhaps Unobtainium.
| QUOTE (cykotek) | ||
In my game, they go off on impact. And I've always seen them as like today's spin-armed launched grenades, only smaller. And filled with an explosive form of Unbelievium. Or perhaps Unobtainium. |
Are those elements on the Periodic Chart?
| QUOTE (Bigity) |
| Are those elements on the Periodic Chart? |
Yes, but the atomic number is irrational.
I prefer balonyum.
The New Big D
The New Big D
Especially in light of the new social adept powers you could make a pretty interesting assassin. Mostly social abilities, but also IA: thrown weapon and missile mastery. Start him off with a specialization in hors d'oeuvres, while you're at it also (I bet ordering the reflex recorder for that one gets funny looks). Turn any garden party into a blood bath!
A social/combat adept with Club, Thrown Weapons, Missle Mastery, IAs: Thrown Weapons and Clubs.
Showdown at the country club.
Showdown at the country club.
Given the ridiculous number of dice Adepts have access to and the potentials of combining that with some of the new Adept powers, there's plenty of potential in hurling that credit card across the room with 12 dice and TN 2. Given that the power lets you turn anything reasonably convenient and unreasonably impotent into a weapon, I'd hardly call it underpowered. Grenades don't even need to enter into it.
Excuse me Sir Arethusa, but your humble servant here doesn't have access to the latest SOTA chip...
For the 12 dice credit card throw...well...a bit far fetched but feasible, but how come you get TN 2 ? (just out of curiosity)
You'd better have 12 dice since a creditstick would be (1/2 Str) L...which is not a lot for anyone with decent Impact Armor (then again it depends on the drekload of dice you're rolling)
For the 12 dice credit card throw...well...a bit far fetched but feasible, but how come you get TN 2 ? (just out of curiosity)
You'd better have 12 dice since a creditstick would be (1/2 Str) L...which is not a lot for anyone with decent Impact Armor (then again it depends on the drekload of dice you're rolling)
Social occasions don't usually call for high levels of Impact Armor.
Fairly true, my wealthy friend, but shadowrunning scum are not carousing in corporate tea parties all the time, are they?
So spending 1n Power point on Missile Mastery and another 1 Point to get Improved Thrown Weapons ( Scones and muffins) 2 is a bit expensive and specialized...but then again it's just my humble opinion.
So spending 1n Power point on Missile Mastery and another 1 Point to get Improved Thrown Weapons ( Scones and muffins) 2 is a bit expensive and specialized...but then again it's just my humble opinion.
| QUOTE (Ombre) |
| Excuse me Sir Arethusa, but your humble servant here doesn't have access to the latest SOTA chip... For the 12 dice credit card throw...well...a bit far fetched but feasible, but how come you get TN 2 ? (just out of curiosity) You'd better have 12 dice since a creditstick would be (1/2 Str) L...which is not a lot for anyone with decent Impact Armor (then again it depends on the drekload of dice you're rolling) |
Admittedly, pumping Throwing Weapons up to 12 dice is costly and a bit unusual, but it's still viable in combat, and with geasing, potentially affordable. I believe Attunement and Aptitude allow you to drop the target number by two, giving you a TN 2. On 12 dice, we're looking at 10 successes average, turning your (1/2 Str)L thrown weapon into 4D + 2OD. For most people, including Shadowrunners, it's essentially the shotgun effect: low pwer with overwhelming successes that no one has the dice to stage down. As Fortune pointed out, impact armor is likely to be a non issue in any place where this would be used, and, regardless, at 3 or 4 power, it's a non issue anyway when the point of the attack is overwhelming your target's number of dice.
Now, I'm not saying it's overpowered (though it certainly can be ridiculously powerful in the right circumstances); you just need to remember that this is not a combat ability, and no one runs into a fight with an ashtray or a cell phone willingly. When your back is against the wall, however, in the circumstances it's suppposed to be used in, it can be pretty nasty. It's definitely not underpowered.
Attunement could get a tad expensive, Karma-wise, not to mention leaving a nice Astral Link, unless you retrieve your weapons every time.
I't a nice little combo to pick up for the right circumstances, or game-style. It's also something different for the more experienced Adept to learn, instead of steadily improving other Powers to the point of superfluousness.
I't a nice little combo to pick up for the right circumstances, or game-style. It's also something different for the more experienced Adept to learn, instead of steadily improving other Powers to the point of superfluousness.
Well, to be fair, even TN 3 and, say, 18 dice is pretty damn unpleasant in its own right. It's not the most efficient combo if your plan is to create a combat adept, but, after all, heavy combat isn't the point of the power.
If you want to be a face adept your not going to be able to put the IA thrown 6 and missile mastery as a starting character.
However for a thrown weapons master that uses hatchets and throwing knives most of the time you will be quite effective and as a bonus you can throw all the inconsequential things with enough dice to make them work. But remember, no number of dice will penetrate hardened armour)
Edward
However for a thrown weapons master that uses hatchets and throwing knives most of the time you will be quite effective and as a bonus you can throw all the inconsequential things with enough dice to make them work. But remember, no number of dice will penetrate hardened armour)
Edward
If you're up against anything hardened and you're throwing things, chances are you have bigger problems.
Grenades, man. How can you forget grenades? You could possibly get the grenade down the throat of your target before he manages to close his mouth, and apply the Chunky Salsa Rule to his insides.
We have one character in a game I'm running who has both Missile Mastery and Missile Parry, plus a custom edge that reduces his called shot TN modifiers for throwing knives (and throwing knives only) to +2, and a couple of levels of Increased Strength geased to throwing weapons only. He carries half a dozen dikoted throwing knives, which each do 9M, 9S on a called shot... suddenly the only weapon more ineffectual than holdout pistols can quite easily kill someone...
I ruled against the house-rule bandied around that a Ready Weapon action with Throwing Knives could ready Q/2 knives, which could be thrown using the rules for Burst Fire. That just made him sick.
-JH.
I ruled against the house-rule bandied around that a Ready Weapon action with Throwing Knives could ready Q/2 knives, which could be thrown using the rules for Burst Fire. That just made him sick.
-JH.
IIRC in Target: Awakened Lands, adepts with missile mastery can make boomerangs return each and every time whether they hit the target or not.
I thought Dikoting small things such as throwing knives was nearly impossible, due to the intense heat of the process. I guess I'd allow it, but would change a hefty sum for the base knives, simulating materials that are very heat tolerant, on top of the cost for the dikote.
Missile Mastery is a vastly underated effect. With the wads of potential things you could throw, including arrows with explosive heads, manhole covers, grenade bolas, dikoted nails, letter opoeners, playing cards, can lids, cans of coca cola, etc, it can turn you into an impromptu weapons master. On the bright side there are many things a GM would have to rule that you get more than (1/2 strength)L
| QUOTE (Bigity) |
| I guess I'd allow it, but would change a hefty sum for the base knives, simulating materials that are very heat tolerant, on top of the cost for the dikote. |
Do you consider normal throwing knives to be made out of plastics?
Or you can be Wallhacker and throw much bigger things... Missile masters plus a full parking lot = lots 'o pain.
No, but regular knives don't have a very high melting point. Now, it's conjecture on what they are made out of in 2060, but as most throwing knife users don't need something that can survive such high temps, I'd imagine the base model would be made of something cheaper, due to the disposable nature of the weapon.
Logically a throwing knife would be just as easy to dikote as a katana made from the same materials. The size doesn’t affect the melting point and the item is probably going to reach an even temperature. If it doesn’t reach an even temperature then the edge on a katana is no different from the edge on a throwing knife. The katana may be a recognisable shape but it won’t be sharp coming out of a furnus that will kill a throwing knife OF THE SAME MATRIAL.
Generally anything made out of moderately high temperature mettles will survive the proses although my preference is for ceramic bladed weapons. They break a bit more but you can carry them into any high class establishment (the type that relies on MADs rather than imposing body searches on patrons)
Edward
Generally anything made out of moderately high temperature mettles will survive the proses although my preference is for ceramic bladed weapons. They break a bit more but you can carry them into any high class establishment (the type that relies on MADs rather than imposing body searches on patrons)
Edward
A quick Googling suggests that most throwing knives, or at least the best publicized throwing knives, are made of steel that's as likely to withstand Dikoting as most swords. Still, I don't know if these are the types of throwing knives that sell the most, and it's your game so you can make any decision you want.
Yea, of course the GM has the final say, I was just looking for other people's thoughts on the matter. 
Now if someone could just figure out square CMs that all the different weapons/armor require for coating
Now if someone could just figure out square CMs that all the different weapons/armor require for coating
| QUOTE (Edward) |
| Logically a throwing knife would be just as easy to dikote as a katana made from the same materials. |
Logically it will be easier, because most throwing knives don't have a temper that will get screwed by dikoting.
~J
Personally, I have no problem allowing players to dikote anything they want. If they want to eat up their Resources by blowing it on everything under the sun, they're more than welcome to.
For weapons, it's not a big deal because one of the entire points of dikote in the first place is that it's a quick-fix for the otherwise pathetic damage melee weapons do in combat. For armor, it's increasing the cost ten times over in many cases, all for an extra +1/+1 (which, as a side note, still applies towards your layering penalties since no exception is made -- and yes, it's another rule I ignore). For everything else, it just increases their chances of avoiding breakage in exchange for, again, several thousand nuyen.
No big deal. People just get worked up over it because it's an add-on. If weapons had the modified Damage Codes to begin with (and Firearms had similar ones -- why they didn't fix those, too, I have no idea... especially since I miss that old FirePower ammo), few people would even bat an eye about it.
For weapons, it's not a big deal because one of the entire points of dikote in the first place is that it's a quick-fix for the otherwise pathetic damage melee weapons do in combat. For armor, it's increasing the cost ten times over in many cases, all for an extra +1/+1 (which, as a side note, still applies towards your layering penalties since no exception is made -- and yes, it's another rule I ignore). For everything else, it just increases their chances of avoiding breakage in exchange for, again, several thousand nuyen.
No big deal. People just get worked up over it because it's an add-on. If weapons had the modified Damage Codes to begin with (and Firearms had similar ones -- why they didn't fix those, too, I have no idea... especially since I miss that old FirePower ammo), few people would even bat an eye about it.
Wait, Funk, are you saying that all weapons, from the start, should have had their Damage Levels bumped up one?
Well to be honest before dikote I had never seen a troll split a car in two. Too bad it was my characters car.
Besides you want to give them a scare just introduce the Memory wire lash: A monowire whip that goes perfectly straight when you run a current through it. Suddenly your players dikoted goodies will be dikoted pieces.
Besides you want to give them a scare just introduce the Memory wire lash: A monowire whip that goes perfectly straight when you run a current through it. Suddenly your players dikoted goodies will be dikoted pieces.
| QUOTE (Arethusa @ Nov 19 2004, 11:22 AM) |
| Wait, Funk, are you saying that all weapons, from the start, should have had their Damage Levels bumped up one? |
For the most part, yes. Light Wounds should result from a successful dodge or resistance test; Moderate should be the default for a lot of weapons in my opinion. It's retarded that a punch is twice as crippling (+2 TN wound penalty) and three times easier to get to that stage of crippleness (3 boxes of damage) than a knife attack is.
Aside from the fact that monowire sucks against barriers and hard material, but hey, who's counting?
~J
~J
This reminds me of a Physad I create back in the day... dikoted throwing knives, multithrowing, etc etc... very effective. Against one person. Assuming he didn't shoot first. And assuming I killed him before he shot me. Otherwise things went downhill very very quickly.
It is a cool character concept, but that's all it is. Balancing out the character to increase his survivability greatly reduces his killpower. Which somewhat takes the fun out of playing it.
It is a cool character concept, but that's all it is. Balancing out the character to increase his survivability greatly reduces his killpower. Which somewhat takes the fun out of playing it.
I once had an adept troll with axe and thrown weapons. His survivability mostly came from a high base body (he was a troll) and he was really fun to play.
Edward
Edward
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