In MITS pg 69-70 when learning a metamagic technique from another initiate it states that a Magic test must taken in order to see if you learned the technique or not.

Now, this has always confused me. The books reference Magic tests in several places throughout the sourcebooks, but what skill or ability do you use to determine how many dice to roll for this Magic test.

Would you use the Magic attribute rating of the character in dice for this test?? Do you use the Sorcery skill rating??

Thanks for the help.

Magic Attribute, just like when it says Body tests, or Quickness tests, ect.

So, in MITS for an Ally spirit's aid power it states adding the spirit's force in dice to the master's magical skill tests.

Does this mean any Magic skill test using the Magic attribute or something else??

Say, I know you can learn metamagic through a handful of different methods (Astral Quest, from a free spirit with the power, from another initiate, etc), but is the metamagic technique gained from initiation automatic, or does it have to be learned via a test of some kind?

It requires a test, depending on the situation. None of them are freebies by default if memory serves.

bigity, you can only gain a metamagic when you initiate. the methods mentioned in MitS are the methods an initiate uses to gain a metamagic when he gets a new grade.

Hmm, is that explicitly stated anywhere?

It's never really come up in any games I've been a part of though.

That a test is required, or that you only gain them through initiation? Bah, it doesn't matter. Both are detailed in Magic in the Shadows starting on page 69. A quick quote:

MitS p. 69, Learning Metamagic: "Each method of learning requires a test."

Thanks Doc.

P.S., I was talking about only learning them at initiation time.

Would it be possible, to have a character initiate a couple of times (3)without learning a Meta-magic (say he's a simple non-shaman Adept) find a teacher later and then learn 3 of the Techniques he had done before?

Don't see why not Shockwave_IIc.

They do need to tighten up the wording of the whole learning metamagic section. If you read it in a particular way it suggests you can learn as many techniques as you like regardless of grade if you can find a teacher or carry out an appropriate quest. This is not the case, as per an e-mail I got back from Wizkids. I've posted it on another thread somewhere and since its buried somewhere in the three or four thousand e-mails in my inbox I really can't be bothered to go looking for it now. But you are only supposed to be able to learn one technique per grade.

Still, given this, it does appear from the rules that you MUST use either a teacher/spirit or a quest EDIT - though a shaman/shamanic adept of somekind could learn it from their totem maybe? END EDIT. This is why I think you should be able to save them up and then learn a bunch of them if need be - otherwise if you can do none of these things (say you're a physad or a sorceror without access to a teacher or spirit), how on earth would you self initiate AND learn techniques? You'd have to simply gain in magical power without gaining in knowlege until you can find someone/something/some astral gateway to teach you to shape your improved gifts.

On the quest thing, I'm not sure how to use the rules - assuming you can even go on quests, could you initiate without an ordeal then do a quest to learn a technique? Since you can only repeat ordeals at GM's discretion it would make it tricky to learn anything new after the first technique if you can quest for a technique only as an ordeal and can't find a teacher. Or is that the intent, do you think?

yeah, kenson really should have paid more attention to his word choices. for instance, the magician's way adept section is incredibly unclear. so is the section on how many times per round you can center, as well as several other sections.