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CoalHeart
How close do you have to be to magically remove an astral signature from a location?

Can you perform the "Cleansing" metamagic while astral, or from across the street?

How far out does a Background Count reach?

Like an alleyway has 5 brutal murders in it. The BG count would be high. But would you walking by on the sidewalk casting spells while passing the alley suffer the BG count to a lesser degree from distance?

Can an Ally Spirit use a foci?

Can Shaman bind or control Elementals? They can banish I know.

How broken would this metamagic be?

QUOTE
New School of Thought

When you learn the metamagic of New School of Thought you gain effectively 1 magic towards a different school of magic.  This Metamagic can be taken multiple times, applied to the same new school, or another.
example:
The Hermetic once taking this metamagic and choosing [TOTEM] Shamanic magic can now cast spells or summon spirits as a Shaman of [TOTEM] as if he had 1 point of magic. Recalculate Magic Pool, and any spell above force 1, or spirits summoned above force 1 will cause physical drain. 


How would you design a magic spell of Regeneration? Force = boxes healed per minute sustained, with lower drain for being a slow acting spell? (Question a player came up with and I didn't know how to design it with them)

When you cast a sustained spell, like Improved Invisibility and apply it to a sustaining foci. Would it be too unbelievable, or broken, or just flatly against the rules to allow the Mage to 'Surpress" the effect if they wanted to be visible for a time, but then allow it to repop back onto them without needing to cast again?

Would Surpressing a Foci to delay the effect, or retard it's power for a time be worthy of being a Metamagic on it's own?

For an Adept, would a new power like "Supress Damage" be too out on a limb?

QUOTE
Supress Damage Cost: 1/per box of phys and stun

Surpress Damage comes into effect when adrenaline is running in the character's body. It causes all damage inflicted on the character to show no outward effect at all. The character doesn't even know they are damaged either until the danger is passed. The Adept may extend the effect longer with a Will test with a TN of boxes of Physical Damage  + Boxes of Stun Damage each round after the dangerous scene has passed. Each level of this power causes 1 box of damage to seemingly have no effect, and cause no damage to appear on their body.  Once the adept chooses actively to deactivate this power, all the wounds appear on their body, and they suffer all of the TN effects, and possibly death. If the damage exeeds the Adept's level of Surpress damage, only the excess damage becomes evident except overflow which remains obscured under a D wound.

Summary: It's a Boosted version of Pain Resistance. You don't feel the pain, and everyone sees that nothing had apparently happened. (Great intimidation and RP effect). While the effect is on it seems like they instantly heal from all wounds, or take no damage. During this time they can be healed magically, but not by mundane means. Yes an adept with 10 points of this power can be at a Deadly wound and even past overflow and show no ill effects and be fully operational. Once the Boost fades, or can no longer be sustained they suffer it all at once, including death. Pain resistance power can still cover up this lingering pain so they can function, provided they are still alive.


Holy drek! That guy was unstoppable... It can't be possible. I shot him point blank to the chest with my ol' AK on full auto. Nothing happened! I swear not a speck of blood. Then the fragger shived me in the guts and left me for dead. I swear. But as I was layin there with my life pouring out, I saw him walk away back to the street. He had a smile on his face just before he kind of exploded into mush and dropped dead. Too bad he didn't finish me off. Heh, fraggin joyboy thought he got me....


That's all smile.gif


P.S. The Supress Damage power I sort of stole from the Unicorn? totem and their Death Frenzy to escape by any means nessesary. This power would let an adept go Kamakazi crazy on their opponent, and suffer all the slings arrows and explosions until they finish, and drop dead from the effort. Or if a mage is willing to soak whatever amount of boxes of damage to heal them before the Surpressed Damage takes effect. Feel free to comment or suggest something better.
Spookymonster
QUOTE (CoalHeart)
Would Surpressing a Foci to delay the effect, or retard it's power for a time be worthy of being a Metamagic on it's own?

Sure... how about we call it Anchoring?wink.gif
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE
Can you perform the "Cleansing" metamagic while astral, or from across the street?

Clensing doesn't require an Exclusive Action, so it can be performed while astral, no problem. It also never states that you have to be in the area of the background count, and since it relies on Sorcery, chances are that if you have LOS of the area, you can use it. The rules never specify either way.

Note that Clensing only helps with temporary background counts, though. You're generally much better off with the Filtering technique from SOTA:2063; it lets you adjust to the count rather than clean it up. Though a Forensics magician would probably go for Clensing instead.

QUOTE
How far out does a Background Count reach?

Varies on the source.

QUOTE
Can an Ally Spirit use a foci?

Sure, but they can't bond with any foci so they can only use those that don't have a Karma requirement as part of the bonding process. That pretty much leaves Expendable Foci and Charms as their only recourse, unless you're dealing with a handcrafted focus undergoing its First Bonding with both the Enchanter and the Ally Spirit around (since the Enchanter can put in all the Karma for it and still bond it to someone else). Of course, the physical component of the focus will be left behind whenever they dematerialize, so... that's probably not a good idea.

QUOTE
Can Shaman bind or control Elementals? They can banish I know.

Not standard Shaman, no. Path Magicians have the ability, to a limited degree, and some Hermetics have learned how to summon Nature Spirits via the Unified Magic Theory paradigm. There may even be one or two totems that allow it, though none in canon do as far as I know (they instead allow you to summon Spirits of the Elements instead).

QUOTE
How would you design a magic spell of Regeneration? Force = boxes healed per minute sustained, with lower drain for being a slow acting spell? (Question a player came up with and I didn't know how to design it with them)

Health spell, assumed Deadly wound since that would be the max it could heal. So that starts off with a Deadly drain code modified by Physical Spell and Sustaining Spell. +2(D) drain. Assuming I'd allow it, which I probably wouldn't. At least not as you described it. It may be a slow-acting spell, but it's a slow-acting spell you can have set up in a sustaining focus 24/7. Unlike Heal spells that require a fresh casting (and Drain Test) each time its used.

QUOTE
When you cast a sustained spell, like Improved Invisibility and apply it to a sustaining foci. Would it be too unbelievable, or broken, or just flatly against the rules to allow the Mage to 'Surpress" the effect if they wanted to be visible for a time, but then allow it to repop back onto them without needing to cast again?

Yes, that goes against the nature of the focus. This is what Anchoring Foci are good for; you can turn them "on and off" without breaking the spell.

QUOTE
For an Adept, would a new power like "Supress Damage" be too out on a limb?

As written, yes.
DarkShade
QUOTE (CoalHeart)

How far out does a Background Count reach?

Like an alleyway has 5 brutal murders in it. The BG count would be high. But would you walking by on the sidewalk casting spells while passing the alley suffer the BG count to a lesser degree from distance?

How broken would this metamagic be?

QUOTE
New School of Thought

When you learn the metamagic of New School of Thought you gain effectively 1 magic towards a different school of magic.  This Metamagic can be taken multiple times, applied to the same new school, or another.
example:
The Hermetic once taking this metamagic and choosing [TOTEM] Shamanic magic can now cast spells or summon spirits as a Shaman of [TOTEM] as if he had 1 point of magic. Recalculate Magic Pool, and any spell above force 1, or spirits summoned above force 1 will cause physical drain.  


How would you design a magic spell of Regeneration? Force = boxes healed per minute sustained, with lower drain for being a slow acting spell? (Question a player came up with and I didn't know how to design it with them)

When you cast a sustained spell, like Improved Invisibility and apply it to a sustaining foci. Would it be too unbelievable, or broken, or just flatly against the rules to allow the Mage to 'Surpress" the effect if they wanted to be visible for a time, but then allow it to repop back onto them without needing to cast again?

For an Adept, would a new power like "Supress Damage" be too out on a limb?

QUOTE
Supress Damage Cost: 1/per box of phys and stun
Surpress Damage comes into effect when adrenaline is running in the character's body. It causes all damage inflicted on the character to show no outward effect at all. The character doesn't even know they are damaged either until the danger is passed. The Adept may extend the effect longer with a Will test with a TN of boxes of Physical Damage  + Boxes of Stun Damage each round after the dangerous scene has passed. Each level of this power causes 1 box of damage to seemingly have no effect, and cause no damage to appear on their body.  Once the adept chooses actively to deactivate this power, all the wounds appear on their body, and they suffer all of the TN effects, and possibly death. If the damage exeeds the Adept's level of Surpress damage, only the excess damage becomes evident except overflow which remains obscured under a D wound.

.



That's all smile.gif


P.S. The Supress Damage power I sort of stole from the Unicorn? totem and their Death Frenzy to escape by any means nessesary. This power would let an adept go Kamakazi crazy on their opponent, and suffer all the slings arrows and explosions until they finish, and drop dead from the effort. Or if a mage is willing to soak whatever amount of boxes of damage to heal them before the Surpressed Damage takes effect. Feel free to comment or suggest something better.

sorry I will just comment on a few things as am short on time.. snipped the rest.
5 brutal murders wouldnt cause any background count, it takes something in the scale of a concentration camp to cause any significant background count that way..& it is all over the area, but there are no exact rules, I think.

the metamagic school I would never allow; not becasue it is broken but because it breaks the shamanic concept:: you do not; i repeat NOT choose a totem; it chooses you. Of course the PLAYER chooses the totem in practice but with this one the character chooses the totem.. not a good idea rpwise. if you restrict it to non-shamanic I would say it could be ok.

regeneration is way too hard in SRUN, I would never allow it, but what you seem to want is a slow healing spell with lower drain. I would then set force of the spell = MAXIMUM amount of boxes that can be healed, you still need to roll for it though something like 8-essence, and you get a box/minute with max= successes scored, but cannot exceed force of spell. now the design option would be to lower the drain one level or so..

invisibility: no. canonwise it doesnt make sense at all & the use this would be put to is heavily munchky.. ie roll invis, use karma reroll , & get cheap permanent mega invis spell, disable when not needed.

supress damage.. ??? so if I shoot him he shows no outward effect?? disbelief factor is HUGE here.. what, bullet goes in then dissappears? smile.gif no. just no. really.

DS

Ol' Scratch
QUOTE
you do not; i repeat NOT choose a totem; it chooses you.

GRR. <resisting urge to snap as a pet peeve crops up>

That's true of some, and possibly even many shamans, but it's not true of all of them. Magic is not a "class," it's a reflection of a type of magical practice. While many shamans may be deluded twits who firmly believe they're being guided by some all-powerful entity, others simply follow a totem or idol's ideals and their magic reflects that... not to mention any other number of takes on the shamanic tradition that exist. Just like not all hermetic magicians are studious nerds, not all shamans are religious zealots.
Kagetenshi
A single brutal murder would cause a background count. Trick is, it takes a lot more than that for the background count to last more than maybe a few weeks. Concentration camps have heavy background count over a hundred years later.

~J
toturi
QUOTE (CoalHeart)
How broken would this metamagic be?

QUOTE
New School of Thought

When you learn the metamagic of New School of Thought you gain effectively 1 magic towards a different school of magic.  This Metamagic can be taken multiple times, applied to the same new school, or another.
example:
The Hermetic once taking this metamagic and choosing [TOTEM] Shamanic magic can now cast spells or summon spirits as a Shaman of [TOTEM] as if he had 1 point of magic. Recalculate Magic Pool, and any spell above force 1, or spirits summoned above force 1 will cause physical drain.  


Simply use the UMT paradigm presented in SOTA 2064. No need for a new metamagic.
CoalHeart

And yes I think I was looking for a slower healing spell. For those times it's too hard to cast under pressure, have it started before the drek hits the fan, and feel the warm tingle afterwards.

Thanks Doctor Funky and Totori I'll look into that Path magician stuff, and the UMT Hermetics. I wanted to throw something a little odd at the players, and on a remote possiblity have one of them learn it. I haven't gotten the SOTA:64 yet, but I will now.

Anchoring foci didn't quite hit what I was going for. As the foci itself needs to cast the spell at that point which might fail, and the creator suffers the drain again. But the way I was looking was just to hold back, and remove some of the successes temporarily, so the effect is nulled. The surpressing the Invisibility spell came along the same ideas of being able to suppress wards. And there is another metamagic that allows Severing. Surpressing ICe too wink.gif But I can see how munchkined up it can be. I might scrap this idea totally.


And back to DarkShade.

So if you shoot a troll, and he soaks and shows no outward effect. Does your disbelief factor grow then too? wink.gif

And almost anything and everything that causes an 'emotional response' causes BG count. It's the nature of magic and BG counts. So yes a murder would cause a temporarily strong one that fades. Multiple murders would last longer in an area.



But what I really wanted to know is how far or large of an affect does it have. BG count X 5 meters? or like a grenade with -1BG/m away from center.

Any ideas on how to fix the Supress Damage? I figured the high power point cost would cover any disbelief factor. Considering that an adept can punch a hole through a steel wall from across the room with the right powers that cost alot less than 10 points.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE
Anchoring foci didn't quite hit what I was going for. As the foci itself needs to cast the spell at that point which might fail, and the creator suffers the drain again.

That only applies when you activate or deactivate the focus. If you're using an Anchoring Focus with a sustained spell, you can turn the effect on or off through a manual anchor. No recasting or Drain Resistance Test required, but the focus is still considered activated even when it's "off." So wards and the like are still a problem.
CoalHeart
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
QUOTE
Anchoring foci didn't quite hit what I was going for. As the foci itself needs to cast the spell at that point which might fail, and the creator suffers the drain again.

That only applies when you activate or deactivate the focus. If you're using an Anchoring Focus with a sustained spell, you can turn the effect on or off through a manual anchor. No recasting or Drain Resistance Test required, but the focus is still considered activated even when it's "off." So wards and the like are still a problem.

Thanks again for clearing up a misunderstanding of magic. Anchoring foci it is.
Ol' Scratch
Err, "manual anchor" should be "manual trigger." Words, how I hate 'em.
BitBasher
QUOTE
So if you shoot a troll, and he soaks and shows no outward effect. Does your disbelief factor grow then too? 
IMHO if you shoot a troll and he soaks, he definitely shows outward effects. He was wounded, the bullet impacted him visibly, it just didn't cause him enough harm to matter. His armor probably degraded and I heard the plates cracking in his vest. He may have had to stumble to regain his footing on the knockdown test. Lots of things are outward effects.

QUOTE
Any ideas on how to fix the Supress Damage?
Yeah, spend .6 bio index and buy a pain editor.

QUOTE
I figured the high power point cost would cover any disbelief factor. Considering that an adept can punch a hole through a steel wall from across the room with the right powers that cost alot less than 10 points.
IMHO no, it can't really be fixed. There's already a mechanic in the game for ignoring damage penalties, it's already a physad power. Just use it. It's never a good idea to introduce a new power that duplicates an existing power only much better.
Conskill
QUOTE
So if you shoot a troll, and he soaks and shows no outward effect. Does your disbelief factor grow then too?


This is part of why you never, ever describe damage or hit location until the soak roll.

"You shoot the troll in the head at point-blank range with your shotgun for..." *rolls* "...Light damage."

QUOTE
But what I really wanted to know is how far or large of an affect does it have. BG count X 5 meters? or like a grenade with -1BG/m away from center.


It's as wide or as focused as you want it to be. My humble opinion is that background counts (and related things, such as the ever fun "How wide is my aura?" question) depend on some latent concepts and distinction of objects. A strong background count in an alley is around the alley. A small background count in a vast field is around the vast field. Physical distance is irrelevent compared to the concept of the area.

After all, it's arguable that the manasphere is one big aspected background count.
DarkShade
few remarks to add.. smile.gif

1- fixing the supress damage: create something like an illusion power, so while you ARE wounded the illusion covers for it so as to show few outward signs. this would be a cheap power though, unless you combine it with pain resistance then it would cost a little more <but not a full point>. main difference with the power as you put it is that wounds are real. a sword that decapitates you still kills you even if you have 20 points of this, you dont `keep fighting for a while then die with your head rolling off..> the mana level in sr doesnt seem enough atm to warrant the version you proposed... see my version as sort of a combined healthy glow spell and adept pain resistance..

2) Background counts.. sorry consistency of gming is completely broken if background counts are created so easily.. are you going to map every area in the puyallup with an `emotional map` for background counts? if not you will not be consistent therefore the mage player will just feel like he is being targeted by the GM at whim, which (s)he is. Leave background counts for the heavy things only...if not make sure you discuss it with your players. as said there are no exact rules just guidelines.

3) shamans: I disagree with the good doctor 100% for roleplay reasons, someone choosing a point of bear and a point of eagle and a point of shark seems plain wrong to me. it doesnt fit in with shamanic tradition.. roleplaywise its not impossible but its like d&d 3.5 with its half races if you know what I mean...


DS
Fortune
In Doc's defense, that isn't what he's saying, or even implying. His point is that, while it is true that a Totem chooses a Shaman in some, if not most (my addition) cases, there are some cases in which the Shaman himself first opts to follow the ideals of a Totem, thereby shaping his view of Magic, and hence his ability to wield it.

Just as some Awakened people express their Magic as Psionics, a person's upbringing, beliefs, and cultural expectations can all have an effect on how a particular person's Magic is expressed.

This is exhibited in the way certain tribes have, for example, more followers of Bear than others. The tribal expectations placed upon an awakened youth would have a great impact on just how his Magic expresses at adolescence. Is it truly Bear that approaches him, or is it that he wishes so much that Bear would approach, that he himself influences the expression?
Cain
QUOTE
How close do you have to be to magically remove an astral signature from a location?

Pretty much right on top of it, IIRC.

QUOTE
Can you perform the "Cleansing" metamagic while astral, or from across the street?

Astral: Yes. Across the Street, no.

QUOTE
How far out does a Background Count reach?

Depends on the source. Mana warps have very defined edges, for example.

QUOTE
Can Shaman bind or control Elementals? They can banish I know.

Standard shamans, no. You can only bind and control spirits that you can summon.

QUOTE
How broken would this metamagic be?

Extremely.

QUOTE
How would you design a magic spell of Regeneration? Force = boxes healed per minute sustained, with lower drain for being a slow acting spell? (Question a player came up with and I didn't know how to design it with them)

I wouldn't. That's just a Heal spell with a special effect. Or a ritually-cast Heal spell, either would work.

QUOTE
Sure, but they can't bond with any foci so they can only use those that don't have a Karma requirement as part of the bonding process. That pretty much leaves Expendable Foci and Charms as their only recourse, unless you're dealing with a handcrafted focus undergoing its First Bonding with both the Enchanter and the Ally Spirit around (since the Enchanter can put in all the Karma for it and still bond it to someone else).

[nitpick]You forgot Inhabiting Foci. [/nitpick]
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (DarkShade)
2) Background counts.. sorry consistency of gming is completely broken if background counts are created so easily.. are you going to map every area in the puyallup with an `emotional map` for background counts? if not you will not be consistent therefore the mage player will just feel like he is being targeted by the GM at whim, which (s)he is. Leave background counts for the heavy things only...if not make sure you discuss it with your players. as said there are no exact rules just guidelines.

As a matter of fact, this is exactly what I do. Most of Puyallup is at least L1 Background Count in my game. Redmond less so, but I think I play Puyallup as even more of a violent wasteland than it is in canon. Consistency is completely maintained.

~J
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Cain)
QUOTE
How close do you have to be to magically remove an astral signature from a location?

Pretty much right on top of it, IIRC.

QUOTE
Can you perform the "Cleansing" metamagic while astral, or from across the street?

Astral: Yes. Across the Street, no.

Proof? You certainly didn't find it in the Cleansing section of MitS or the Astral Signatures section of SR3.

QUOTE
QUOTE
How far out does a Background Count reach?

Depends on the source. Mana warps have very defined edges, for example.

And where are you coming up with this, now? Mana warps are just background counts on crack, created from very rare and potent effects (nuclear blasts, space, etc.). There is no "mana warps are spheres exactly two kilometers in diameter" or any other "very defined edge" even hinted at by the rules. At best, space itself has defined mana warps, but that's only one type of mana warp.

QUOTE
QUOTE
Sure, but they can't bond with any foci so they can only use those that don't have a Karma requirement as part of the bonding process. That pretty much leaves Expendable Foci and Charms as their only recourse, unless you're dealing with a handcrafted focus undergoing its First Bonding with both the Enchanter and the Ally Spirit around (since the Enchanter can put in all the Karma for it and still bond it to someone else).


[nitpick]You forgot Inhabiting Foci. [/nitpick]

No I didn't. Ally spirits don't "use" inhabiting foci, their summoner does as part of the process of creating a homonculus (which is called a homonculous focus, by the way). Assuming that's what you're talking about, as I've never heard of an inhabiting focus.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Nov 26 2004, 02:05 AM)
QUOTE (DarkShade @ Nov 25 2004, 06:14 AM)
2) Background counts.. sorry consistency of gming is completely broken if background counts are created so easily.. are you going to map every area in the puyallup with an `emotional map` for background counts? if not you will not be consistent therefore the mage player will just feel like he is being targeted by the GM at whim, which (s)he is. Leave background counts for the heavy things only...if not make sure you discuss it with your players. as said there are no exact rules just guidelines.

As a matter of fact, this is exactly what I do. Most of Puyallup is at least L1 Background Count in my game. Redmond less so, but I think I play Puyallup as even more of a violent wasteland than it is in canon. Consistency is completely maintained.

~J

Right. Background counts *are* easy to generate, and a lot of areas in a city will likely have a Rating 1 floating around. Something as simple as a heated argument, a passionate make-out session, a mugging, the creepy environment of an abandoned factory, or even the simple presence of a hospital is enough to generate a BC of 1. Anything greater than that, however, requires quite a bit of effort and is rarely encountered.
Crusher Bob
And the afore mentioned brutal murder (or five) mentioned above, is an 'easy' way to ramp up the background count.

Note that 'the street' will tend to be pretty clear alot of the time, since most stuff will tend to even out (except in universally crappy areas like the barrens). But most 'enclosed' spaces like buildings (where the 'same' sort of stuff tends to happen) can get a background count of 1 or 2 pretty easily.

IMHO, if the GM is really going to play up background counts he should take the time to aspect them. In general, backgound counts should be supportive of 'more of the same', so you won't have and trouble nailing people with manabolt on the sight of the brutal murders, but healing someone it right out. It's the background counts generated by hopelessness and apathy (which are opposed to just about everything) that should be the 'worst', magically speaking. This can also explain why runners don't notice the background counts their mass murders create, it's always supportive of yet another killin'. Just wait until they are trying to heal their mates ate the end of the gun fight. GM: Hmm you killed all the witnesses huh, heal spells are not TN +3. muhahaha.

This is probably one of the overlooked disadvantages of being dual natured, you have to put up with the background counts of where you live (I would assume that they promote a feeling of '_______', depending on their aspect.)

Note that the PCs can reduce the background count of an area by removing the things that cause them. I.e. running out the church worshippers and that pesky background count will take care of itself (after a while, anyway).
Cain
QUOTE
And where are you coming up with this, now? Mana warps are just background counts on crack, created from very rare and potent effects (nuclear blasts, space, etc.). There is no "mana warps are spheres exactly two kilometers in diameter" or any other "very defined edge" even hinted at by the rules. At best, space itself has defined mana warps, but that's only one type of mana warp.

The fovae in Azatlan, for example. Those are free-floating mana warps with very sharply defined edges.

QUOTE
Ally spirits don't "use" inhabiting foci, their summoner does as part of the process of creating a homonculus (which is called a homonculous focus, by the way). Assuming that's what you're talking about, as I've never heard of an inhabiting focus.

Which is why I set it on nitpick mode. Allies do "use" the focus to move around and such, it's just a question of who the silly thing is bound to. Technically, the ally uses it, while the enchanter is bound to it, meaning that it counts against the enchanter for the purposes of focus addiction.
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