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Botch
PMP musclature and skeletons allow a runner to change their height, apearance, and even gender.

How about a set of clothes that change shape and cut? Follow it one step further and it also has great stealth benefits, it can change your silloete and with reuthium coatings becomes a mundane's fashion, camo. and invisibilty spells rolled into one.

Would you buy one, and how much would you pay for what?
Cray74
Depends if I'm a mage with the fashion spell, or have a mage pal with the fashion spell.
Tarantula
Well, I'm curious what PMP stands for. Other than that, wouldn't the most 'stealthy' silloette be the smallest one possible, and thus your standard skin-tight ruth outfit?

Other than that, I'd say make the clothes give a bonus to disguise checks, thats about it.
Fix-it
Tarantula: I'm guessing you Add an "I" somewhere in there.
Cray74
QUOTE (Fix-it)
Tarantula: I'm guessing you Add an "I" somewhere in there.

Pmip? Is that Russian or something?
Botch
Sorry, lifted the cyberware straight from NSRCG, as taken from TSS5. It could be PNP not PMP, its a material that can change its length by 10+% when used as cyberware.

QUOTE
Well, I'm curious what PMP stands for. Other than that, wouldn't the most 'stealthy' silloette be the smallest one possible, and thus your standard skin-tight ruth outfit?


No, the best silloette is one that doesn't appear to be a target. The art of camoflague is to disguise the shape, normally done by randomn colour shadings and the addition of material to break up the outlines. Think of a soldier with camo clothing and plant material stuck to his clothing.
Tarantula
QUOTE (Botch)
No, the best silloette is one that doesn't appear to be a target. The art of camoflague is to disguise the shape, normally done by randomn colour shadings and the addition of material to break up the outlines. Think of a soldier with camo clothing and plant material stuck to his clothing.

Siloette's are the shape of your shadow or the general outline of your body. Also, I said stealthy siloette, not the best.

The most stealthy silouette would be the smallest possible. Furthermore, the most stealthy sillouette is a very small one, that appears to not be a silouette, but rather be made up of multiple smaller silouettes.

Camoflauge (relating to the discussion) works to trick the brain into thinking your silouette is actually multiple silouettes of other things (like branches) layed over each other, and not one large shape.
lorthazar
The best silhoette for stealth is the one that garners the least attention.

Some of my player have made runs by dressing as the janitorial staff. Nobody really looks at them, and when they do all you have to do is claim your new. Of course it help to have some faked corp secuirity cards.

No matter how small or broken up your silhoette is, if it doesn't fit the surrounding you will be shot at with burst fire shotguns.
Botch
QUOTE (lorthazar @ Dec 1 2004, 06:30 PM)
The best silhoette for stealth is the one that garners the least attention.

Some of my player have made runs by dressing as the janitorial staff. Nobody really looks at them, and when they do all you have to do is claim your new. Of course it help to have some faked corp secuirity cards.

No matter how small or broken up your silhoette is, if it doesn't fit the surrounding you will be shot at with burst fire shotguns.

Thank you, so in my words "not a target".

QUOTE
The most stealthy silouette would be the smallest possible. Furthermore, the most stealthy sillouette is a very small one, that appears to not be a silouette, but rather be made up of multiple smaller silouettes.


That is not stealth, that is being hard to see. Try this as an experiment, go to a shopping mall and walk normally from one end to another. How many people are going to pay attention to you? Then travel back to the start making yourself the smallest silloette possible by running from pillar to pillar and hiding behind benches, bet more people take an interest in you.

But back to the topic, can you envisage a suit that changes shape a viable product that could be co-opyed into runner gear and how much would you expect to pay for max TN# camo/disguise mods in all environments?
Tarantula
QUOTE (Botch)
That is not stealth, that is being hard to see. Try this as an experiment, go to a shopping mall and walk normally from one end to another. How many people are going to pay attention to you? Then travel back to the start making yourself the smallest silloette possible by running from pillar to pillar and hiding behind benches, bet more people take an interest in you.

By smallest sillouette, I was referring to you stating that changing height, would somehow enhance your abilities to avoid detection. Smaller is better, period. I can't make myself smaller by running, thats faster, not smaller. Nor is hiding behind a pillar, thats hiding, not shrinking. You can not make yourself smaller, I was simply stating that making yourself bigger does not render any advantage what so ever.

A grammer issue as well, how is being hard to see NOT stealth? Its not everything that stealth embodies, but it is most definately a part of stealth.

To address lorths point of "the best silouhette being the one that garners the least attention he is correct. Disguising yourself as a janitor does not change your silouhette.

A silouhette is not what you look like, nor is it how easy it is to recognize you're not supposed to be there, its the shape someone sees when looking at you. The outline you make. A good example is the chaulk outlines police draw around dead bodies, it is a silouhette of where the body was.

I am still failing to see how having a silouhette that does not match a person is less stealthy that having one that looks like a person, or a large person. I know that if I was attempting to be stealthy, and someone looked at me, I'd like them to think something along the lines of "nothing in those branches" or "those blinds sure reflect the light funny". Not, "Man, look at that giant troll looking thing over there."
Kanada Ten
A tiny person in a room full of orks will draw attention. Maybe appearing like those around you isn't technically "stealth", but I think that's the idea. Small doesn't equal less noticable in a number of situations.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Tarantula)
You can not make yourself smaller, I was simply stating that making yourself bigger does not render any advantage what so ever.

I imagine blowfish and numerous other animals out there would disagree with you quite a bit. Perhaps not for stealth (though color-shifting octopi have made great use of changing their size in both directions when it comes to that) in all cases, but it sill has its advantages, especially in situations such as what Kanada Ten described.
Botch
QUOTE (Tarantula)
...By smallest sillouette, I was referring to you stating that changing height, would somehow enhance your abilities to avoid detection. Smaller is better, period. I can't make myself smaller by running, thats faster, not smaller. Nor is hiding behind a pillar, thats hiding, not shrinking. You can not make yourself smaller, I was simply stating that making yourself bigger does not render any advantage what so ever...

...I am still failing to see how having a silouhette that does not match a person is less stealthy that having one that looks like a person, or a large person. I know that if I was attempting to be stealthy, and someone looked at me, I'd like them to think something along the lines of "nothing in those branches" or "those blinds sure reflect the light funny". Not, "Man, look at that giant troll looking thing over there."

I never said the clothing would aid stealth or hiding or concealment by making your larger or smaller, but that this is an adaption of PMP technology as presented in TSS5. PMP is used in cyberware musclature and bone replacement to enable the cyber to change size by 10% per rating and at high ratings change gender and race. Take this material that can be used as muscle and build a set of clothing out of it.

a) With good tailoring and ruthenium weave the clothing can now be used to change shape, cut, and colour. The earlier runner is wearing street streets clothes as he approaches the building and as he turns the corner to the back entrance his clothing shifts into that of a janitor.
b) By using small interlinking panels to form the larger panels found in normal clothing the cut of the clothes can be changed further. An important part of camoflague is breaking up your outline/silloette/form. The clothing can now raise and lower flaps, tails and create inorganic/organic forms, much like soldiers and hunters attach suitable undergrowth to themselves.
c) Benefit social tests by adjusting apparent body form. It wouldn't be dwarf to troll in scope, but it could certainly do BOD/STR 2 to BOD/STR 6 depending. Do you need to look scarier or milder real quick, gain or loss weight (padded or girdle)?
d) Foe the DNI enabled equipment hidden underneath the clothing can be quickly accessed, because the material moves itself to create the easy access.

Obviously this package would come in 4 rating from pre-programmed static to fully dynamic and DNI controlled.

My take on stealth has been this.

To travel from point A to point B past observer C that has been tasked with intercepting Target Set D, you must ensure you are part of Non-Target Set E, which includes not being seen at all, or seen as a friendly, innocent, scenery, etc.
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