I have always been interested in the genetic supermen of fiction. I blame Star Trek for the most part, Bladerunner of course, and more recently the Nieztschean race from the Andromeda series. Dark Angel, Etc etc.
Over the years I've fiddled with ways to bring such into an SR setting, as Anime and scifi seems to suggest they'd make a decent match for it. Most recently I've been reviewing Becks 2 stuff, rather like the alternate character generation rules they have.
So I've got a couple ideas I'd appreciate feedback/tweaks on. Looking to balance it into the game, appropriate costs for the proposed abilities, etc.
I had 2 approaches. The first was sorta a genetic/bio-adept. They'd pay some karma for the Metatype of "Genetic Augment, Augmented Human, whatever" (I never did come up with a good name, honestly I just wanted to steal the Nieztchean template, boneblades and all).
Approach 1: Probably a bit more high end powerwise.
Race: Augment. Karma Cost: Something like 40.
What you get with that package: 7 or 8 Bonus attribute points to distribute (hadn't decided which). No more than +2 in any one attribute. I wanted to reflect different "batches" or genetic experiment groups. Some may have more uniform across the board enhancements, others more specialized in a particular attribute, but not so much that you end up with really skewed results. Racial and Attribute Maxes would reflect adjusted attributes. Metatype also includes low light vision.
Magic: (Not really magic, but was the most equivalent heading) 75 karma. As the additional abilities were kinda adept-like.
Basically it gave you 4 to 6 points (again I hadn't decided exactly how much) to spend on Bioware type augmentations. These reflected additional 'in the tube' genetic augmentations that individual specimins recieved. This was not true bioware, so while it mirrored the effect of the various pieces, it did not necessarially follow the mechanics/material requirements. So basically it let you ignore any descriptions of synthetic materials to get the effect. Cost of augmentations were straight from the bioware body index costs. Staight basic costs, could not get 'cultured' type bioindex reductions, at least for the purpose of these purchases.
So for example, you could be bred with the effects of a trauma dampener, bioware type accelerated reflexes, orthoskin, whatever.
These effects could be later augmented some more with additional/conventional bioware additions to your body. You could 'add' effectively 1 more level of augmentation beyond what you had. So even though in the books, bioware reaction enhancers only had 2 levels, if you took 2 levels of enhancement as your 'breed' you could take 1 more level. So you'd have a total of +3d6 init, for example. In cases where the item only had 1 level, and where doubling the overall effect would be too much, increase it by +1. So a boosted trauma dampener effect by having a trauma damp + breed bonus trauma damp effect, would give you a -3 mod to TN to resist pain stuff, and would subtract something like 2 phys and add 1 stun, or reduce stun dmg by 2 boxes.
To help balance this, I said you'd have to have the additional bioware to be 'cultured' if you wanted to put it in and have decent effect. In this case, you'd pay the cost of cultured bioware but wouldn't get the bioindex reduction benefit of the cultured effect. So you'd really have to be willing to sink cash into stuff if you wanted to extend your breed bonuses with bioware.
I'll just post this first version for now, as I'm getting a bit beat and probably going to head off for the evening. I'll check back later and add the 2nd, less powerful version.
Comments are appreciated. Also, I'd appreciate some devil's advocate kinda stuff, please feel free to try and min/max, powermunchkin a character based off the design stuff given. I hadn't really put too much time into trying to break the design and come up with superspecialized powerrangers. I had a feeling it might be possible, which is why I was thinking between 4 to 6 'bioware' power points. With 4 I came up with some decent effects, but nothing too overpowered in my opinion. But as I've mentioned, other opinions are appreciated.
Full Version: Genetic Augments
As a NPC concept yes, but not as PCs. By initial reasoning has nothing to do with game mechanics or an assessment of SR technology, but rather that the world of 206x is not mature or understanding enough to allow some-one to play God with human beings in public.
Sure, shadowlabs and the "evil" corps can, heck even AIs have, but think about the level of racism towards meta-humans and they are basically human altered by the Hand of God/Magic. Your guys are genetic laboratory freaks. There is no explainable population base for PCs to come from, but then again I don't let PCs be shapeshifters either. I think they would just be to rare to be anything other the corporation and mad/evil scientist puppets in 206x.
The role to are looking for for genetic supermen PCs is kinda already taken in SR by the awakened and meta-humanity. I'm not knocking your work, I just feel it is the Way of the NPC.
Sure, shadowlabs and the "evil" corps can, heck even AIs have, but think about the level of racism towards meta-humans and they are basically human altered by the Hand of God/Magic. Your guys are genetic laboratory freaks. There is no explainable population base for PCs to come from, but then again I don't let PCs be shapeshifters either. I think they would just be to rare to be anything other the corporation and mad/evil scientist puppets in 206x.
The role to are looking for for genetic supermen PCs is kinda already taken in SR by the awakened and meta-humanity. I'm not knocking your work, I just feel it is the Way of the NPC.
a bio version of a cyberzombie... hmm.. I would look into it, but giving proper disadvantages, more or less in line with the ones a cyberzombie gets but different.. going heavy in magic or heavy in constant tech treatments to keep your body from rejecting the junk & dying.. drugs all the time going into you or some such at the very least.., immuno system issues, nanite ongoing treatments, etc etc..
hmm.. maybe requiring extra organs from near but not equal genetic matches.. <siblings>
DS
hmm.. maybe requiring extra organs from near but not equal genetic matches.. <siblings>
DS
| QUOTE (Botch) |
| As a NPC concept yes, but not as PCs. By initial reasoning has nothing to do with game mechanics or an assessment of SR technology, but rather that the world of 206x is not mature or understanding enough to allow some-one to play God with human beings in public. |
See: Genetech and Bioware. The SR public is dosed with genetic manipulation daily. They eat genetically modified foods, get genetic treatments to cure their diseases, and hear about genetically-engineered artificial organs (bioware) improving metahumanity on a daily basis. Megacorp researchers play God with humans everyday in the public eye.
Voran, I'd recommend using the available Genetech and Bioware rules to grant the extra attribute points and other features, perhaps with the "racial" benefit of not suffering Bio-Index healing penalties for the Genetech and Bioware used to create "racial" bonuses. That benefit would be paid for with a racial priority rating of C, or elf-like character points. (Actual bioware and genetech would, of course, have normal Bio-index impact).
I don't think you need to go to the extreme of granting magic-like powers. Bioware will get done what you need.
Sounds like an interesting approach, but the start-up and R&D costs would make this a rare one.
| QUOTE (Cray74) |
| See: Genetech and Bioware. The SR public is dosed with genetic manipulation daily. They eat genetically modified foods, get genetic treatments to cure their diseases, and hear about genetically-engineered artificial organs (bioware) improving metahumanity on a daily basis. Megacorp researchers play God with humans everyday in the public eye. |
Yes, I understand this, but it isn't same as bio-engineering full humans. Replacement body parts, both cyber and bio will have been around for nearly a century, but these are additions or replacements to an original human. They hear about bioware IMPROVING metahumanity on a daily basis, but they do not see it walking around and talking to them. Megacorps provide solutions to citizens problems using the "Power of God", what they do not do is create artifical humans and attempt to be God. The major religions are going to go nuts. A replacement arm or kidney does not have a soul, what about an artifical human?
If the average human in SR is portrayed as being unable to cope with friends, family and neighbours metamorphasising into orks and trolls and others being born as UGEs why would they be more likely to except an intelligent, superior artifical lifeform? Remember the average citizens exposure to a genuine AI is going to be news about Deus and the Arcology, every thing else is going to be from the entertainment media which is great at demonising this section of technology. If you do not apply racism to your game world, then yes, you could have these as PCs, otherwise the artifical human (AT) would be so bound to corporate life as to be a NPC much like cyberzombies.
Don't get me wrong I think the concept is good, but just not a viable PC until the game world matures, say 40-odd years ahead of its social time.
isn't there some gene therapy stuff in SOTA2063?? could you use that as a basis for some of this other stuff??
Yes, but for some reason it has already been dismissed by a couple of people even though it includes prenatal genetic modifications.
Actually if you want to see how to properly integrate it on a roleplaying level the GURPS supplement Bio-Tech. It also gives great ideas for more Bio-Ware. I especially like the ArmBlade. GURPS supplements are great becuase they look at both the game mechanics as well social impact.
| QUOTE (Botch) |
| Yes, I understand this, but it isn't same as bio-engineering full humans. |
We'll have to disagree on that, then.
[sarcasm]
yeah, i can see where that prenatal stuff would throw you off...
[/sarcasm]
actually, the first thing that struck me when i read that stuff was that it was worthless to the typical runner, just BECAUSE it was prenatal...it seems to me that the stuff was provided specifically for the type of character that Voran is trying to create...in fact, maybe i'll do some more research on this and come up with some new stuff...if nothing else, it would make for a good story, much like the woman in the novel Tails You Loose...have a shadowrun against a creche, extract one of the babies, have the corp raise him, then he discovers his true identity, escapes into the shadows and becomes a shadowrunner...
now, on the gaming side, i like using the bioware already in place, and just have the character purchase it as natural organs, and therefore they don't suffer stress unless the character suffers Attribute stress...make it cost the same as an Adept to play the character (either priority B or the build points equivalent). Make the maximums 9 instead of 6 for purchasing/raising Attributes and skills - however, when generating the character, they have a maximum of 6 as normal, and boost it with the bioware purchases - these cannot boost the character above 9 either. the sole benefit being that they don't suffer stress. Also, since these organs are being part of the character's original genetic code since birth, they should be purchased as cultured. Maybe come up with some more psychological flaws (these super-humans always seem to have psych problems) and require the character to have a certain point total of these...
Since the focus of the character should basically be Attributes, require that as Priority A (or equiv build points)
also, i'd say that since this character is a creation of SCIENCE, they CANNOT be awakened. They MUST take Priority E for Magic (or 0 build points)....optionally, i think most corps would make them Human, but you 'could' allow gengineered trolls....shudder...
so you could do something like this (using the priority system for quick example)
A Attributes
B "Augment"
C Skills (cause this is all that's left)
D Resources (because the corp gave them everything they needed)
E Magic
Since the corp is "paying' for the genetech and bioware, they can choose what they want to, without exceeding their bio index. if they want any cyberware or actual bioware before starting play, they have to use their D level resources - which won't allow much...
yeah, i can see where that prenatal stuff would throw you off...
[/sarcasm]
actually, the first thing that struck me when i read that stuff was that it was worthless to the typical runner, just BECAUSE it was prenatal...it seems to me that the stuff was provided specifically for the type of character that Voran is trying to create...in fact, maybe i'll do some more research on this and come up with some new stuff...if nothing else, it would make for a good story, much like the woman in the novel Tails You Loose...have a shadowrun against a creche, extract one of the babies, have the corp raise him, then he discovers his true identity, escapes into the shadows and becomes a shadowrunner...
now, on the gaming side, i like using the bioware already in place, and just have the character purchase it as natural organs, and therefore they don't suffer stress unless the character suffers Attribute stress...make it cost the same as an Adept to play the character (either priority B or the build points equivalent). Make the maximums 9 instead of 6 for purchasing/raising Attributes and skills - however, when generating the character, they have a maximum of 6 as normal, and boost it with the bioware purchases - these cannot boost the character above 9 either. the sole benefit being that they don't suffer stress. Also, since these organs are being part of the character's original genetic code since birth, they should be purchased as cultured. Maybe come up with some more psychological flaws (these super-humans always seem to have psych problems) and require the character to have a certain point total of these...
Since the focus of the character should basically be Attributes, require that as Priority A (or equiv build points)
also, i'd say that since this character is a creation of SCIENCE, they CANNOT be awakened. They MUST take Priority E for Magic (or 0 build points)....optionally, i think most corps would make them Human, but you 'could' allow gengineered trolls....shudder...
so you could do something like this (using the priority system for quick example)
A Attributes
B "Augment"
C Skills (cause this is all that's left)
D Resources (because the corp gave them everything they needed)
E Magic
Since the corp is "paying' for the genetech and bioware, they can choose what they want to, without exceeding their bio index. if they want any cyberware or actual bioware before starting play, they have to use their D level resources - which won't allow much...
| QUOTE (Botch) |
| If the average human in SR is portrayed as being unable to cope with friends, family and neighbours metamorphasising into orks and trolls and others being born as UGEs why would they be more likely to except an intelligent, superior artifical lifeform? Remember the average citizens exposure to a genuine AI is going to be news about Deus and the Arcology, every thing else is going to be from the entertainment media which is great at demonising this section of technology. If you do not apply racism to your game world, then yes, you could have these as PCs, otherwise the artifical human (AT) would be so bound to corporate life as to be a NPC much like cyberzombies. Don't get me wrong I think the concept is good, but just not a viable PC until the game world matures, say 40-odd years ahead of its social time. |
Who would know the difference between an artificial human and a normal without the aid of pointy ears, tusks, or DNA tests. Metahumans experience perjudice because they look different. An artificial human with 9s across the board wouldn't look very different from an all 3's wage slave.
Gentech isn't limited to prenatal treatments, it just includes that. Anyone can go in and have most of the treatments performed on them.
| QUOTE (bitrunner) |
| now, on the gaming side, i like using the bioware already in place, and just have the character purchase it as natural organs, and therefore they don't suffer stress unless the character suffers Attribute stress |
I like that idea.
| QUOTE |
| also, i'd say that since this character is a creation of SCIENCE, they CANNOT be awakened. |
SR's magic has a habit of confounding geneticists and scientists in general. While SR magic mostly doesn't cooperate with science, it also does not strictly avoid science. That would be cooperating in one fashion.
I'd be amused to see some SR scientists try to engineer up a kid with "heightened thaumaturgical tolerance" (magic resistance) and end up with a kid that's an initiate mage in the cradle. Of course, when they try to replicate the effects, there's absolutely no effect on the next 99 kids and 100th kid has fairy wings but no spellcasting abilities. SR's magic seems to respond to gengineering like that - untold hundreds of failures, then something like FAB is created.
But, anyway, combining these "augments" with magic might be a bit unbalancing for PC use, so I'd propose the following alternative to directly banning magic:
Augments are racial priority C, but they have to buy their augmentations with starting cash, just like bioware or genetech. Thus if they want any augments to speak of, they need a high cash priority (A or B). Plus, any augments represented by bioware must be cultured, so it'll be pricey and chew up starting cash. Sure, this lets the Augment be magical (priority A or B magic) if they take low starting cash, BUT those augments won't really have any augmentations.
That should work with non-priority chargen systems, too.
Racial benefits are that bioware and genetech designated as "augments" in character creation do not have bio-index and do not accumulate stress.
I like BitRunners idea. Maybe adding an Enemy or a nice Bomb to player characters. Or, since they are unnatural, the cursed karma flaw (no, they don't get the points)
Another option might be:
+ Reduced bio-index cost (IIRC there was something in the rules for pre-natal stuff)
+ Massive indoctrination (True believer)
+ Well, you can always add cat genes
Go Saurons!
Birdy
Another option might be:
+ Reduced bio-index cost (IIRC there was something in the rules for pre-natal stuff)
+ Massive indoctrination (True believer)
+ Well, you can always add cat genes
Go Saurons!
Birdy
I think an artificial human would be more likely to find acceptance in society simply because they look human. Would they be persecuted if they tried to fit into society? Of course, but no more than some metas and likely less.
people fear what they don't understand...as long as the augment tried to fit in with everyone else, he'd be ok...
it's that one time down at the bar where someone picks a fight with him and he sends a lightning punch into someone's belly and sends them 8 feet across the room that people are going to look at him different and start calling him "freak"...
...think of the school fight scene in Spiderman...before, he's just Peter - after, he's "the freak"...
The thing is, as an Augment (and if you go by my example with high priority in Attributes), you have been made genetically pure - you probably have a very high Charisma - at least a 5...
that's another reason for being an outcast. sure, initially all the women will swoon and men may want to follow his leadership, but many will not trust him just because he's so much like "Apollo" ...others, especially those that discover his background, will start talking about "Arians" and such...this is the fear of the unknown and prejudice against the augments - the people are afraid that the augments will want to become some superior race and make slaves of the rest of us...
that may be a reason that it makes sense that many augments would become shadowrunners - they have a need or desire to use their abilities, yet they can't use them openly in front of the common man. only among some of the other "freaks" (cyborgs, otaku, anti-social riggers, the awakened) that are misunderstood and share his 'angst' can he relate and work with them.
it's that one time down at the bar where someone picks a fight with him and he sends a lightning punch into someone's belly and sends them 8 feet across the room that people are going to look at him different and start calling him "freak"...
...think of the school fight scene in Spiderman...before, he's just Peter - after, he's "the freak"...
The thing is, as an Augment (and if you go by my example with high priority in Attributes), you have been made genetically pure - you probably have a very high Charisma - at least a 5...
that's another reason for being an outcast. sure, initially all the women will swoon and men may want to follow his leadership, but many will not trust him just because he's so much like "Apollo" ...others, especially those that discover his background, will start talking about "Arians" and such...this is the fear of the unknown and prejudice against the augments - the people are afraid that the augments will want to become some superior race and make slaves of the rest of us...
that may be a reason that it makes sense that many augments would become shadowrunners - they have a need or desire to use their abilities, yet they can't use them openly in front of the common man. only among some of the other "freaks" (cyborgs, otaku, anti-social riggers, the awakened) that are misunderstood and share his 'angst' can he relate and work with them.
I appreciate the feedback so far.
The 'lower powered' version of the Genetic Augmented metatype, is effectively taking a bunch of (in my opinion) kinda related edges (and flaws in some cases) to get a package/batch bonus similar to how metatypes are already handled. For example, the costs if you made a human character through edges with the exact same base bonuses as say an elf, ends up being more expensive under Becks Karma buys.
So the G.A. metatype would give you kinda like how I listed for the original version, some bonus attrib points to spread around that would influence your base, racial and attribute maximum numbers.
This version would not have the 'adept-like' abilities. Rather they would represent the step before really breeding in such abilities. They'd be a platform that takes really well to bioware. Possibly taking more essence costs than normal as a side result.
They'd only max out with equivalent bioware abilities, unlike version 1 which allowed them to exceed current book ratings. But it'd cost them less body index (maybe), and their bioware didn't stress as much, could always recover down to 0 (unlike normal bioware that always had at least 1 permanent stress once wounded), and recovered maybe regular health/bioware damage faster than a normal human.
I'd say they also couldn't Awaken. Would be highly resistant to the current Surge type effects/changes.
Maybe an 80 point metatype race?
The 'lower powered' version of the Genetic Augmented metatype, is effectively taking a bunch of (in my opinion) kinda related edges (and flaws in some cases) to get a package/batch bonus similar to how metatypes are already handled. For example, the costs if you made a human character through edges with the exact same base bonuses as say an elf, ends up being more expensive under Becks Karma buys.
So the G.A. metatype would give you kinda like how I listed for the original version, some bonus attrib points to spread around that would influence your base, racial and attribute maximum numbers.
This version would not have the 'adept-like' abilities. Rather they would represent the step before really breeding in such abilities. They'd be a platform that takes really well to bioware. Possibly taking more essence costs than normal as a side result.
They'd only max out with equivalent bioware abilities, unlike version 1 which allowed them to exceed current book ratings. But it'd cost them less body index (maybe), and their bioware didn't stress as much, could always recover down to 0 (unlike normal bioware that always had at least 1 permanent stress once wounded), and recovered maybe regular health/bioware damage faster than a normal human.
I'd say they also couldn't Awaken. Would be highly resistant to the current Surge type effects/changes.
Maybe an 80 point metatype race?
There would probably be several different 'levels' of boosts, so you'd have 'low boost' that costs as much as a dwarf of ork and gives you (say) +2 (total) to physical stats and 2 points of physical edges. Then 'high boost' that gives, say +2 (total) physical stats, 2 points fo physicial edges, and 1-2 points of bioware. Then the 'adept boost' which gives the minor bonuses buy 4-6 points of bioware.
Treat them like a metahuman race (i.e. cursed karma).
You could allow disads for the powers like 'special diet' or whatever to give a point break on some of the bioware
Treat them like a metahuman race (i.e. cursed karma).
You could allow disads for the powers like 'special diet' or whatever to give a point break on some of the bioware
The idea of replacing (and adding) modified organs strikes me as straight from Warhammer 40K Space Marines. It might be fun to go to the source (they describe each step an aspirant goes through to become a Space Marine, including what steps a particular organ gets implanted) to create these GAs - in 40K books Space Marines are giants of men, almost troll sized, but fully human in appearance.
I've got the book somewhere, I can type out a listing of the steps if people are interested.
I've got the book somewhere, I can type out a listing of the steps if people are interested.
| QUOTE |
| Treat them like a metahuman race (i.e. cursed karma). |
What?
i don't think we're talking about replacing organs...we're talking about the fact that according to the background information in SOTA63, corporations are on the verge of gengineering a human - picking/modifying the DNA and such in vitro to produce "super babies" like the character in Dark Angel. Kind of like "natural physical adepts" or similar, that would have the best of everything and/or everything to the (meta)human maximum - like olympian gods...
btw, after skimming over SOTA2063, i'm wondering if we're overanalyzing it...it mentions purchasing the gene therapy in the book for in vitro at 75% of the book price. i'm going to play around and see what kind of character I can get if I take a million nuyen and 'buy' the bioware at 75% book price as well...
btw, after skimming over SOTA2063, i'm wondering if we're overanalyzing it...it mentions purchasing the gene therapy in the book for in vitro at 75% of the book price. i'm going to play around and see what kind of character I can get if I take a million nuyen and 'buy' the bioware at 75% book price as well...
One problem: The Nietzchien armblades are not natural parts of their bodies. In fact, in the first episode of the show a Nietchean specifically says something alongs the line of "You forgot to take these." Then he stabs a couple of guards to death.
we've never said they couldn't spend their starting cash on cyberware...we're just looking at the overall concept and background...in the creche, so to speak...
once a character had been born and raised, and moved into the shadows, it wouldn't be a surprise if they got some cyberware, especially the combat stuff like a hidden melee weapon, smartlink, or similar that couldn't be done naturally...
of course, one of the biggest benefits of this type of character is that they could walk through any security system and not set it off (provided they DON'T take any cyberware)...their enhancements are 'natural' - they wouldn't even show up as bioware, because they are the original organs...their auras would not show any illness or modification either (this brings up another interesting topic - what would their auras look like - could a mage tell someone was a test tube baby??)
once a character had been born and raised, and moved into the shadows, it wouldn't be a surprise if they got some cyberware, especially the combat stuff like a hidden melee weapon, smartlink, or similar that couldn't be done naturally...
of course, one of the biggest benefits of this type of character is that they could walk through any security system and not set it off (provided they DON'T take any cyberware)...their enhancements are 'natural' - they wouldn't even show up as bioware, because they are the original organs...their auras would not show any illness or modification either (this brings up another interesting topic - what would their auras look like - could a mage tell someone was a test tube baby??)
| QUOTE (Toptomcat @ Dec 4 2004, 11:01 AM) | ||
What? |
He meant Bad Karma.
Human is the norm. This is what all other races are adjusted from. Humans calculate their Karma Pool with a 10:1 ratio. All metahumans calcuate their Karma Pool with a 20:1 ratio, which is basically the equivalent to the Bad Karma Flaw. This does not preclude metahumans from taking the Flaw as an option, which would result in a 40:1 ratio.
| QUOTE |
| Don't get me wrong I think the concept is good, but just not a viable PC until the game world matures, say 40-odd years ahead of its social time. |
Isn't the char - and some of the plot - of 'Tail's you loose' about genetically created super children?
Either way - I think this is a good idea. If it can be done correctly. I've mokeyed with it for years. I'd like to see a system other than becks . Priorty and point build as well,
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| Human is the norm. This is what all other races are adjusted from. Humans calculate their Karma Pool with a 10:1 ratio. All metahumans calcuate their Karma Pool with a 20:1 ratio, which is basically the equivalent to the Bad Karma Flaw. This does not preclude metahumans from taking the Flaw as an option, which would result in a 40:1 ratio. |
Technically it's the other way around. 20:1 is the norm. Humans get a special bonus. And yes, metahumans who take Bad Karma are most definitely at 40:1 -- it's far from a Human-only flaw.
On the plus side it makes Cursed Karma more attractive, too. Or, more correctly, less of a burden since you don't have as much Karma Pool to worry about backfiring to begin with.
Just to get this out of my system: KHAAAN!!!
Okay. All better.
I don't see why there aren't more bioware glands out there. You's think that given just how chemical and hormone-driven the average body is, they'd find out ways to do all sorts of things just by sending different compounds into the bloodstream.
-karma
Okay. All better.
I don't see why there aren't more bioware glands out there. You's think that given just how chemical and hormone-driven the average body is, they'd find out ways to do all sorts of things just by sending different compounds into the bloodstream.
-karma
I still think you mean Bad Karma.
Either way you look at it, the analogy is just a descriptive comparison anyway, and Bad Karma is a ready-made example of the basic effecs.
I agree the Bad Karma is not as bad as it is made out to be though.
As for Cursed Karma, I have been toying with the idea of incorporating it and a positive variety into the general rules for Karma Pool use. This could reflect the sometimes whimsical nature of luck.
Either way you look at it, the analogy is just a descriptive comparison anyway, and Bad Karma is a ready-made example of the basic effecs.
I agree the Bad Karma is not as bad as it is made out to be though.
As for Cursed Karma, I have been toying with the idea of incorporating it and a positive variety into the general rules for Karma Pool use. This could reflect the sometimes whimsical nature of luck.
| QUOTE (Eldritch) |
| Isn't the char - and some of the plot - of 'Tail's you loose' about genetically created super children? |
yep, as i mentioned in one of my earlier posts...i also talk about the extra psychological flaws like she (and they) have....
| QUOTE |
| ...much like the woman in the novel Tails You Loose... |
| QUOTE (KarmaInferno) |
| Just to get this out of my system: KHAAAN!!! Okay. All better. I don't see why there aren't more bioware glands out there. You's think that given just how chemical and hormone-driven the average body is, they'd find out ways to do all sorts of things just by sending different compounds into the bloodstream. -karma |
Coming from a Palladium/Rifts kinda setting, I did toy with the idea of the Juicer type character. With chemicals and nano/cyberwear I think its possible in SR rules, but I didn't like the idea of only having 6-10 (average) years before you croak
6-10 years? Bwahahahaha... you'll be lucky to make it past one year with any single one of the better chemical compounds. God save you if you tried to use more than one.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| 6-10 years? Bwahahahaha... you'll be lucky to make it past one year with any single one of the better chemical compounds. God save you if you tried to use more than one. |
True. Heh in SR I'm surprised any characters that use chemicals or drink beer for that matter, live for more than a few weeks.
Now that I'm getting back into SR, with my amazon bought SR4 stuff (well...SR 4 main book and some SR3 books I never had before) I may be touching this up again.
Man I sure switch back and forth between gamesystems every 6-8 months or so, cycles too. DnD, then to SR, then to SWRPG, then back to DnD a little, now back to SR.
Man I sure switch back and forth between gamesystems every 6-8 months or so, cycles too. DnD, then to SR, then to SWRPG, then back to DnD a little, now back to SR.
On GenMods:
+ Not every GenMod looks like Ricardo Montalban or Jessica Alba. The Saurons i.e are described as rather ugly.
+ I'd definitly give them Magical Resistance. Simply because every one is checked and those not Resistant (and not magical either) get's culled
+ Humans only. Scientist will want to start with as simple a base as possible
+ Cursed Karma is IMHO better than Bad Karma. After all they are based on Humans, not on Metas
+ What are the good for? Soldiers, Thinkers, Spys? Different jobs get different augmentations (P-Glands don't make much sense in Soldiers)
+ Superiority complex (We are better than the cattle) or Incompetence (i.e Intimidation/Mental) and "Odious personal habits" should be part of the template
+ And whatever you do with the undesirables: Never simply put them out for the piasmas, it might come back to haunt you
Q: Where would you be when the Awakening comes?
A: Attenting a Humanis Meeting!
+ Not every GenMod looks like Ricardo Montalban or Jessica Alba. The Saurons i.e are described as rather ugly.
+ I'd definitly give them Magical Resistance. Simply because every one is checked and those not Resistant (and not magical either) get's culled
+ Humans only. Scientist will want to start with as simple a base as possible
+ Cursed Karma is IMHO better than Bad Karma. After all they are based on Humans, not on Metas
+ What are the good for? Soldiers, Thinkers, Spys? Different jobs get different augmentations (P-Glands don't make much sense in Soldiers)
+ Superiority complex (We are better than the cattle) or Incompetence (i.e Intimidation/Mental) and "Odious personal habits" should be part of the template
+ And whatever you do with the undesirables: Never simply put them out for the piasmas, it might come back to haunt you
Q: Where would you be when the Awakening comes?
A: Attenting a Humanis Meeting!
| QUOTE (Voran) |
| Now that I'm getting back into SR, with my amazon bought SR4 stuff (well...SR 4 main book and some SR3 books I never had before) I may be touching this up again. Man I sure switch back and forth between gamesystems every 6-8 months or so, cycles too. DnD, then to SR, then to SWRPG, then back to DnD a little, now back to SR. |
Holy thread necrophelia batman.
If you were using sr3 I would say make sure you use the Exceptional Attribute edge on a few stats or make another metahuman variant. (Everything you want to do can be done with edges and flaws.) keep the total bonuses to 4 or less if you use a meta.
I am not sure how sr4 works and do not want to know. You can just increase the number of base points you let chars start with.
I don't know how popular genetic augments would be vs. bioware augments (especially from a soldier/Brave New World viewpoint). It seems foolish to raise a person to perform a specific task when you can take normal people and augment them to perform that specific task later. Why invest 16 years when you can invest 1?
I also wonder if transgenic therapy could be done, in the SR world? Where they inject you with a retrovirus that alters the genes of specific organs? That seems likely to occur.
I also wonder if transgenic therapy could be done, in the SR world? Where they inject you with a retrovirus that alters the genes of specific organs? That seems likely to occur.
| QUOTE (El_Machinae) |
| I don't know how popular genetic augments would be vs. bioware augments (especially from a soldier/Brave New World viewpoint). It seems foolish to raise a person to perform a specific task when you can take normal people and augment them to perform that specific task later. Why invest 16 years when you can invest 1? I also wonder if transgenic therapy could be done, in the SR world? Where they inject you with a retrovirus that alters the genes of specific organs? That seems likely to occur. |
Well, if you change his genetics on a germline level, he'll breed true, making the next batch much cheaper.
And you don't tune the product to a specific task, you tune him to a general theme (All soldiers have better reaction, enhanced strength, enhanced stomach etc, All spys have idetic memory, pherhormones etc) That way the won't get useless.
A final reason (Depending a bit on how you interpret/use the rules): Genetic alterration is "yours" and difficult to detect if at all.
Oh, I cannot imagine that people (if given the option) would NOT opt to give a competitive advantage to their children through DNA alteration.
Of course, since I will not have any more children, I'm more interested in genetic improvement of ME!
Of course, since I will not have any more children, I'm more interested in genetic improvement of ME!
I can't imagine that a megacorp, with its dedicated staff, wouldn't start trying to breed extra brains into researchers, extra strength, speed and stamina into its dedicated security..
I mean -- long term planning. You do some of it to keep the current stock up to date, and you do some of it for the future. You pay them well, you give them benefits, and you make sure that down the road, you'll just get better and better.
I mean -- long term planning. You do some of it to keep the current stock up to date, and you do some of it for the future. You pay them well, you give them benefits, and you make sure that down the road, you'll just get better and better.
If I remember my own stuff correctly (hehe), I think I intended the Genetic Augments (name of the 'race') to be a test bed for improved bioware capabilities. Bioware, if i recall, was grown from clone bodies, and the 'leftovers' were just recycled after the necessary pieces were harvested. So the GAs were designed to be more compatible with some types of bioware that used 'natural' materials (as opposed to the original setup of muscle augmentation weave of synthetic materials woven into muscle fibers, etc). To the point that the bioware would slowly become integrated into the genetic code of the GA, so the next generation after them would have improved baseline abils. Etc etc.
The current GA generation would actually be a few down the line in the generations of experiments, as it would probably take awhile to come up with a template that didn't catch cancer or come out all mutant. Kinda like Ripley from the Alien 4 movie.
Basically a hodgepodge of all the genetic enhanced story cliches or whatever from movies and tv Artificial aging, simsense implanted memories, etc. So the process would take a few years as opposed to natural aging development. Plus the sped up process would allow errors to be caught quicker. The current generation would also be relatively stable, to allow for 'real world' data gathering. The earlier generations were more stress tests and 'will this work/will they be psychotic' focused.
The current GA generation would actually be a few down the line in the generations of experiments, as it would probably take awhile to come up with a template that didn't catch cancer or come out all mutant. Kinda like Ripley from the Alien 4 movie.
Basically a hodgepodge of all the genetic enhanced story cliches or whatever from movies and tv
Artificial aging, simsense implanted memories, etc. So the process would take a few years as opposed to natural aging development. Plus the sped up process would allow errors to be caught quicker. The current generation would also be relatively stable, to allow for 'real world' data gathering. The earlier generations were more stress tests and 'will this work/will they be psychotic' focused.
It would be interesting to explore the opposite implications of genetic engineering technology. Making a utopian society where everyone is equal by engineering the next generation to be as slow, weak, ugly, and stupid as is possible.
Man, now that I have my SR4 book, this is looking rather daunting. Aside from the whole problems of converting 3rd ed to 4th, figuring out what this template would look like for chargen purposes is rather intimidating. I'm going to work on it tho, since my inner-child writer has had his imagination sparked on how to bring the 3rd ed character into the 4th.
Are these qualities balanced? I was thinking of having a couple qualities that were engineered into the GA for purposes of their testing.
10 pt flaw:
Sensitive System (much like the 15 pt flaw in SR4) this one has a 50% increase in cyber essence cost (instead of double).
10 pt advantage. Needs to be taken with above. As a stand-alone quality it would be at least 15 pts. Effect: Reduces bioware essence cost by 25%? (I thought even a 10 or 15 pt cost to get a straight 50% reduction would be way too cheap).
10 pt flaw:
Sensitive System (much like the 15 pt flaw in SR4) this one has a 50% increase in cyber essence cost (instead of double).
10 pt advantage. Needs to be taken with above. As a stand-alone quality it would be at least 15 pts. Effect: Reduces bioware essence cost by 25%? (I thought even a 10 or 15 pt cost to get a straight 50% reduction would be way too cheap).
| QUOTE (Sabosect) |
| One problem: The Nietzchien armblades are not natural parts of their bodies. In fact, in the first episode of the show a Nietchean specifically says something alongs the line of "You forgot to take these." Then he stabs a couple of guards to death. |
He was being a smart ass. The bone blades are a natural growth. In one ep, you see Tyr looking over someone's collected trophy bone blades, comparing the size of them with his own. Also, it was a big and strange deal when he lost his, because they are a part of them.
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