Anyone skip the SI for vehicles desinged at chargen? It drops the cost considerably, but then so does getting cyberware w/o SI applied. Since most my runners usually get the pre-gen stuff it's never usually an issue.

SI never applies at chargen.

~J

1) Street Index never applies during character creation.

2) Technically you're not allowed to design your own vehicles (or most anything else) during character creation, and most of the time you can't even do it after the game begins. The design rules are there for the GM to fill in the blanks for vehicles the designers didn't bother adding.

#2 is up to interpretation. It isn't intended for the characters to design vehicles, but designing a standard world vehicle that could be plenty of other places on the street doesn't seem to me to be outside the intended scope. Of course, the GM needs to keep in mind that the vehicle needs a valid reason to exist (security vehicles yes, runnermobiles no).

~J

Oh i know, the rules say "don't let your players sit down and crank out vehicles", yet the examples show players doing just that!!

I can see they are trying to curb players going ape-shit with the rules and for good cause, but that's why the stress GM-interactions IMO.

There has to be someway to let players design (for the most part) something they want to look for.

I look over the plans and shift some items from Custom to Design and vice-versa, usually to not allow some game-breaking super-vehicle-drone thing to come into play from outta nowhere.

I wouldn't have a problem letting a decker design their own deck, a mage design their own spells or anyone else design their own vehicle. It's fun to crank out a speed-bike with a panther-cannon mounted in the sidecar!

Thanks for confirming my non-use of SI.

So long as the GM approves it, I don't see any problem with it.

The vehicle design rules are great when you're making a slightly different version from a listed model. Like your cool BMW luxury car that's refitted for security work.

From scratch is something I don't see happening much, but taking an existing template, using the rules to strip it and reorg it, seems more likely.

I'd say from scratch is where they're best. If you're going for retrofitted models, customization is what you'd use.

~J

The only custom-designed vehicle we introduced into our game was a BMW with a more powerful engine, runflat performance tires, concealed armor, and ballistic glass.

We reasoned it was like an embassy edition that dignitaries would use when travelling. Of course it made a perfect runnermobile too.

I let my players design pretty much anything. If they can come up with something, then they're probably not the only people in the world who want one. Suddenly, there's a market, so the thing now exists.

As long as the ratings and availability of all the options and parts is within the starting rules (<6 rating, <8 avail), they can get whatever they want. Since I', the one with most of the books, and the spreadsheet for making vehicles, I'm usually working with them while they design it anyways, to make sure they don't make obvious errors.

Anything they can get ahold of, I can too (often in greater numbers), so I don't see it as a problem.

In Rigger 3 it mentions that the design options can be used by someone who has access at a bare minimum to a vehicle factory. I would consider a vehicle factory to be the equivalent of a vehicle facility. As such I would allow anyone who purchases a vehicle facility to use the design options at chargen. Anyone else see it that way?

Since a character at chargen is limited to level 6, how would you gage a character wanting levels of engine customization. Would it be limited to 6 levels flat; or 6 levels of speed, 6 levels of load, and 6 levels of acceleration?

No, I don't see it that way. I see a vehicle facility as a full-scale shop (what we'd call a shop in real life), not a factory.

~J

I have a player who wants to play a former NASC car-ish racer he gets kciked out of the racing leauge and steals the racing car before becoming a runner. I was going to let him use the design option since I can only imagine if they allow games like urban brawl in the 2060s what kinda of car leauges they have and what the caps on speed and fuel types/ratios are. What do you guys think, let him or not?

Go for it. That sort of car is primarily meant for long, straight sections of road with the occasional gentle, heavily banked turn. I'd give it a high Handling, Off-Road Handling in the upper teens, and a Speed of Insane.

~J