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FrostyNSO
I have a few questions.

I have a bounty-hunter character who at the moment has a customized Browning Max-Power that he possesses a permit for. It has an extended clip that added just two more rounds to keep the conceal down, a custom grip, a tactical light, and a smartlink.

Now does that permit allow him to carry a plain-jane Browning Max-Power or would these mods be ok?

The other weapon is a Remington 990 sawed-off shotgun. The 990 is listed as permitable, but what about if it is sawed off? Is that still allowed?

Lastly, it seems as if a stun baton would be something that a bounty hunter would be able to carry legally, but they're not permitable. As a character that often deals with law enforcement, I don't want this guy getting fined all the time. Are there any sourcebooks with stats for pepper spray?

durthang
The permit rules are messed up, plain and simple. What I would personally do as a GM is create a general bounty hunter's license for the character that will cover carrying weapons and other things a bounty hunter has to do in the line of work.

The down side to this as a shadowrunner is it is a hard paper trail and the character would have to have a legal SIN.

*EDIT* Pepper spray is in Man and Machine as Pepper Punch IIRC
Austere Emancipator
Yep, Pepper Punch can be found in Man and Machine, p. 121. It is completely legal too, no permit required.
mfb
to answer the question above, a permit will cover any mods that do not, in and of themselves, have a legality code. if the mod has a legality code, you need a permit for that mod.
kevyn668
Like the smartlink. (right?)
mfb
right. in order to legally use a smartlinked weapon with a cybernetic interface, you'd need three permints: one for the weapon, one for the smartlink mod, and one for the smartlink cyberware.
iPad
Im playing a similer character and Ive just worked this sort of thing through with my gm, on non-permissable stuff I just had to pay a 20% premium.

On a fake sin I asked for:

QUOTE
BRUCE ROBERTS

UCAS Licensed Bounty Hunter + Bail Bondsmen. (cover)

*Titanium Bone Lacing - Beta Grade.

Smartlink - Beta.

VCR Level 1 - Delta.

Shock Hand x 2 - Beta.

Muscle Aug (4)

Orth Skin (2)

Synaptic Accellerator (2)

Ares Light Fire

Ares Pred III

*Spas 22

*Ares Alpha

Light + Heavy Security Armour

Security Armour Helmet

*A couple of these things donít have a private citizen permit, but I imagine that a license for an organisation can be gained as npcs sometimes have licences for non-permissable things if they have a good reason eg. Bodyguards.
kevyn668
I'm kinda fuzzy on these rules, but doesn't the permit cover the "class" of weapon (ie. Pistols, Shotguns, etc) as long as the specific weapon is registered? For instance, if you have pistol permit, can you own a Pred, a Deputy, and an Elite at the the same time as long as all of the guns registered? You wouldn't need three seperate permits. You'd need one permit with three "slots."

Or is this some remnent of an old house rule?
FrostyNSO
I don't have my books with me (at work). You can't permit a smartlink can you???
iPad
Kev: No because there is a huge difference between a Remmington 990 and Spas-22 and theyre both shotguns, ones just a hell of alot deadlier than the other, but ones permissable.

Frosty: Yep you can smile.gif
FrostyNSO
Another thing :

Last game a situation arose when a character's cyberware registered on a scanner. When they were asked about it, they said that they had been in the military, which had installed it, and now they were out. In this case it was a commlink and transducer.

Would the military leave old cyberware inside the soldier when his 4 or 6 years or whatever was up? I could see them re-using it, but some inexpensive cyberware i could see them leaving.
What if your arm gets blown off and the military furnishes a cyber replacement. (We'll assume that you're more than the average grunt, maybe Special Forces or something.) When your time's up, do they say "Sorry pal, that's 100,000 Nuyen." and take it back?
iPad
Good point, sounds like an ace blag to me. I recon they would just deactivate it when someone gets demobbed.
Mercer
QUOTE (FrostyNSO)
Would the military leave old cyberware inside the soldier when his 4 or 6 years or whatever was up?

For me, it would come down to who owned the cyberware at the end of the enlistment. If it was government property, I think they'd yank it and stick in the next guy. If the cyber was purchased through some sort of program where a segment of the soldiers pay went towards it, then I'd say they could keep it. I can't think of a present day example, but there probably is one.

It could also be used as a reenlistment tool. You know, "Four more years and that Dermal Armor is yours, free and clear." Likewise, getting cyberware implanted could be a reenlistment tool. "I'm only reupping if I get to go to Jump School and I get Wired 2."

Most little things (in this context, smartlinks and vision mods, and bodyware under 10k), I'd say most soldiers could buy themselves (at reduced cost perhaps) and have implanted with the military covering the surgery costs. For the bigger things, your Wireds and so on, the soldiers probably wouldn't be able to afford to buy but might get as part of enlistment or reenlistment bonuses.

Btw, none of this would have any bearing on the character creation process, I'm just spitballing ideas about how it might work.
FrostyNSO
So lets say you're G.I. Special Forces Joe and you agree to re-up provided the Army install Wired 2 for example. You're a valued soldier and have many years experience in the Special Forces so they agree.

You get your gear, serve another 6 years, and then get out. So when you go to the airport now, you've got this illegal cyberware in you. Do you get some sort of probationary permit to have this stuff in you or do you have to get it removed as soon as you're no longer a govt. employee?
Fix-it
I'd say yes, considering I don't think you CAN remove wired reflexes. You COULD deactivate the switch though.
John Campbell
Sure you can. It's Boosted that can't be removed.
Kanada Ten
QUOTE (John Campbell)
Sure you can. It's Boosted that can't be removed.

Without gene therapy anyway.
toturi
Wired 2 has a legality code of 4P-Q. Permits are allowed. I'm sure since you had it legally implanted, you could get a permit through the Army before you were discharged. Also I do not think the Army would be so stupid to take it out of you if you were a former Special Forces. You'd probably have checked the National Guard/Reserves box when you left. Taking it out is just stupid unless you were Dishonourably discharged.
Teulisch
what i want to know, is why you cant get a permit for ANY kind of melee weapon, yet you can for the shock hand and handblades.

i think its a good idea to have a fake sin with permits for all the fairly obvious cyberware (like dermal sheath and smartlink) that you dont need a scanner to detect. that way if they bug you, you can show a permit, and hat have a problem. it just makes getting a new fake sin that much more expensive is all.

the only thing you dont want to get permits for is cyberguns. you cant get rid of it or change the barrel, if the bullet matches you have to get a new identity fast. (now, putting it in an arm with a replacement modification is another matter).
FlakJacket
QUOTE (FrostyNSO)
The other weapon is a Remington 990 sawed-off shotgun.  The 990 is listed as permitable, but what about if it is sawed off? Is that still allowed?

I'd say not. If the player wants to get a permit for a sawn-off then just have a read on what you currently have to do to get a license from ATF to own them and carry it over. Sawn-offs only real advantage are that they're more concealable/manouverable in confined spaces, neither of which is really relevant for normal civillian usage. The UCAS still has the ATF as the ATFT and with the general American-ness of the UCAS I figure they kept the laws- not like the Canadian states would be arguing for loosened gun control.
kevyn668
QUOTE (Teulisch)

the only thing you dont want to get permits for is cyberguns. you cant get rid of it or change the barrel, if the bullet matches you have to get a new identity fast. (now, putting it in an arm with a replacement modification is another matter).

You can replace the barrel. It just costs more.

And as I regularly point out, unless there has been a new publication/FAQ/errata, if you go strictly by the canon rules there is no chance that you will be traced by ballistic evidence alone. It is all about what kind of game you play. Relax. Have fun. Edit: but talk to your GM first. wink.gif


QUOTE
iPad

Posted: Dec 10 2004, 09:23 PM
Kev: No because there is a huge difference between a Remmington 990 and Spas-22 and theyre both shotguns, ones just a hell of alot deadlier than the other, but ones permissable.


I see your point.

A pump operated shotgun is different than a BF capable shotgun. Just the same as an Ares Preditor is different than the Sav or the Thunderbolt. They have different firing modes. So, what I was saying, but neglected to be specific about, was that a permit should cover most weapons in that specific class. A shotgun permit should cover the T250 and the 990 (nonsawed-off) but not the AS-7 or SPAS22. Likewise a pistol permit should not be limited by "hold-out," "light," or "heavy" as long as they all fire SS or SA.
iPad
Ok two things:

1) In the UK much of the prison population is ex-squaddies (troopers). I imagen its similer in America. Letting them use cutting edge ware after they leave isnt the best idea.

2) I imagen you can get a 'handgun' or 'shotgun' licence as you can now (even in the gun strict UK) but this exceludes curtain calibres or types which are for security or military uses, ie. any heavy pistol, or shotguns that would massicre the all the main characters of Watership Down in thirty seconds.
kevyn668
QUOTE (iPad)
2) I imagen you can get a 'handgun' or 'shotgun' licence as you can now (even in the gun strict UK) but this exceludes curtain calibres or types which are for security or military uses, ie. any heavy pistol, or shotguns that would massicre the all the main characters of Watership Down in thirty seconds.

Yep. That's what I was saying.

The main characters of the "Watership Down" I'm thinking of were rabbits. 30 seconds sounds about right to me--by SR rules thats 10 combat turns!! I better be able to waste 10 bunnies in that span. smile.gif

Edit: Unless "...they've got TEEETH!" biggrin.gif
FrostyNSO
Wow.

Pepper Punch is downright awesome. Perfect for spraying the bounty and then taking him down in hand-to-hand. Thanks all!
iPad
QUOTE (kevyn668)
QUOTE (iPad)
2) I imagen you can get a 'handgun' or 'shotgun' licence as you can now (even in the gun strict UK) but this exceludes curtain calibres or types which are for security or military uses, ie. any heavy pistol, or shotguns that would massicre the all the main characters of Watership Down in thirty seconds.

Yep. That's what I was saying.

The main characters of the "Watership Down" I'm thinking of were rabbits. 30 seconds sounds about right to me--by SR rules thats 10 combat turns!! I better be able to waste 10 bunnies in that span. smile.gif

Edit: Unless "...they've got TEEETH!" biggrin.gif

Well Bigwig was a bit of a bruiser in a fight and Fiver was a an awakened bunny so since 1978 hes probably initiated a few times. If you have ever seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail you would never underestamate rabbits again.
toturi
QUOTE (iPad)
Well Bigwig was a bit of a bruiser in a fight and Fiver was a an awakened bunny so since 1978 hes probably initiated a few times. If you have ever seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail you would never underestamate rabbits again.

I was in the local store today and there they were... Killer Bunnies!
kevyn668
QUOTE (iPad)
QUOTE (kevyn668 @ Dec 12 2004, 02:49 AM)
QUOTE (iPad)
2) I imagen you can get a 'handgun' or 'shotgun' licence as you can now (even in the gun strict UK) but this exceludes curtain calibres or types which are for security or military uses, ie. any heavy pistol, or shotguns that would massicre the all the main characters of Watership Down in thirty seconds.

Yep. That's what I was saying.

The main characters of the "Watership Down" I'm thinking of were rabbits. 30 seconds sounds about right to me--by SR rules thats 10 combat turns!! I better be able to waste 10 bunnies in that span. smile.gif

Edit: Unless "...they've got TEEETH!" biggrin.gif

Well Bigwig was a bit of a bruiser in a fight and Fiver was a an awakened bunny so since 1978 hes probably initiated a few times. If you have ever seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail you would never underestamate rabbits again.

<points to the "edit">

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