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DocMortand
Quick question which isn't covered in the CC rules for supressive fire. Exactly how does it work when a vehicle crosses a stream of supressive fire? Obviously you can't Dodge, even a Rigger shouldn't be able to dodge a vehicle through supressive fire, it's too big.

So, here is the scenario, what should be done?

Max has just about cleared the warehouse of bogies with his trusty Ingram Valiant [LMG, BF/FA, 7S, equipped with internal smartlink II] when he hears over his commlink "One last bogie, accelerating in a Euro Westwind!" He hears the engine accelerating, but is in the middle of a maze of boxes, and the only chance he has of slowing or stopping the Westwind is to shoot a stream of suppressive fire through a 3 meter gap perpendicular to the Westwind's progress. Just as the car nears the gap, he opens fire and keeps the stream going until the car zoom through the stream.

Exactly how does this get resolved?

Yet another interesting theoretical problem...
DocMortand
Sorry guys - first time I've seen the SMTP thing, and I stupidly thought "Reload" on my browser would get past it. *bonks head*

Anyways, answer the question here, if you could...
GrinderTheTroll
I'd resolve the the supressive fire for each supressed square is passes through. Let the Rigger dodge (he could bob and weave whatever) just a regular player, but he's looking at having to avoid 3 squares worth of ammo.
DocMortand
but why wouldn't it autohit? So are you saying the same rules, otherwise?

I know the supressive fire rules are fairly ineffective as it is except in extremely skilled hands with full recoil comp for each bullet...so technically would the car that couldn't dodge would still only get hit with [three] 7S (which becomes 3M with the reduced fire)? I would think you would leave a line of bullet holes!

Edit: Sorry, reread your post. So in other words, if there were only a 1m gap the car would only get hit by one 7S attack...if it hit at all! Doesn't make any sense.
Ved'ma
QUOTE (DocMortand @ Dec 24 2004, 02:04 AM)
but why wouldn't it autohit?  So are you saying the same rules, otherwise?

I know the supressive fire rules are fairly ineffective as it is except in extremely skilled hands with full recoil comp for each bullet...so technically would the car that couldn't dodge would still only get hit with [three] 7S (which becomes 3M with the reduced fire)?  I would think you would leave a line of bullet holes!

Edit: Sorry, reread your post.  So in other words, if there were only a 1m gap the car would only get hit by one 7S attack...if it hit at all!  Doesn't make any sense.

I don't see why unaimed suppressive fire would autohit when aimed autofire would require a roll. I would treat the vehicle the same way as a character in most cases, unless it something really big and impossible to miss. If a vehicle occupies more than one meter that's being suppressed, then I'd total all of the rounds in each meter the vehicle is occupying.

Also, unrelated to the question at hand, but recoil comp does nothing for suppressive fire, since recoil isn't factored in to the TN.
toturi
Suppressive fire is neither aimed nor unaimed at a target per se. It is targeted at a space for the lack of a better word. Anything in that space risks being hit. Therefore the vehicle is treated as a target moving through the "threatened" area.
DocMortand
Just strikes me as odd that a 3-4m long car can be missed by a stream of bullets from full auto. *shrug* It's not like the car is a character, it's more like a moving building (albeit small).
Edward
Calculate as normal.

Control pool can be used to dodge (no more reniculus than it normally is), role to hit as normal with suppressive fire.

Of cause it may be the case that the driver was unaware of the shooter in which case he would be surprised and unable to dodge.
Also I would think you could delay your initiative to the point when you see the car and use a targeted stream but that is beside the point.

Edward
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (DocMortand)
Just strikes me as odd that a 3-4m long car can be missed by a stream of bullets from full auto. *shrug* It's not like the car is a character, it's more like a moving building (albeit small).

Keep in mind that a "hit" to a vehicle represents a hit that can actually do damage to the vehicle's functionality. Maybe every single round hits, but if none of them do anything but mess up the doors, that might as well be a miss.

~J
Crusher Bob
That's not a very good explanation. If I am using an autocannon and the vehicle in question is a subcompact, any hit will do 'vital damage'.

GM: Well 9 of you 25mm HEDP round just scratch the paint of the plastic car, the 10th on does a serious wound to it...
Kagetenshi
Care to explain how a shot that hits the passenger cab and doesn't touch any of the controls will damage a vehicle meaningfully?

~J
DocMortand
Okay, I can see your point, Kage - but it raises another. Should there be a random roll of some type or another to see if bullets that hit the cab penetrate to hit passengers/driver? (i.e. it shattered the window) In other words, if you're spraying an area, and a car is passing you, you may get one or two bullets into the engine area/front tire, probably 5-6 into the passenger area and 1-2 into the trunk area/rear tire. Of those, some of the passenger area would probably hit windows, some would hit door. I can see misses because it didn't hit anything vital, but what determines where it hits? And could passengers get hit?
Kagetenshi
If you take a single shot at someone and miss, should that shot have a chance of hitting someone or something behind the target?

These are all pieces that have been taken out for simplicity. If you want to add them back in, go ahead, but their absence is not unreasonable at all.

~J
RangerJoe
BBB page 149 has all the rules your heart could ever desire regarding vehicle damage and damage to passengers. Given the suppressive fire scenario, if I were feeling like a malicious GM, I'd treat the vehicle and all its passengers as valid targets crossing the suppressed zone, mixing the pg 149 rules on damage and damage reduction with the CC suppressive fire rules. Yeah, that would be vicious.....
GrinderTheTroll
QUOTE (DocMortand)
Just strikes me as odd that a 3-4m long car can be missed by a stream of bullets from full auto. *shrug* It's not like the car is a character, it's more like a moving building (albeit small).

I wouldn't think of the bullets as a "stream", you are shooting into areas, it's doubtful you are drawing pictures but simply shooting in an area. NO autohits if I resolved it, it's really no different (IMO) than supressing the same area any other time.
Tarantula
QUOTE (Crusher Bob)
That's not a very good explanation. If I am using an autocannon and the vehicle in question is a subcompact, any hit will do 'vital damage'.

GM: Well 9 of you 25mm HEDP round just scratch the paint of the plastic car, the 10th on does a serious wound to it...

Well, the autocannon does how much? 18D? Subcompact gets 2 dice to resist after staging down because its a vehicle, so its resisting 9S with 2 dice. So at best, it takes a M from any shot you hit with it, and a S at worst.
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