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Wounded Ronin
Hand To Hand Combat system ver. 2.0

This is a hand to hand combat system for SR3 that I have created in which I try to balance realism and manageable game mechanics with a system that also does not disrupt game balance by not changing the power level of hand to hand combat overall very much. Furthermore it is designed so that players and busy gamemasters may still take a hand to hand combat skill that acts exactly like the old SR3 "Unarmed Combat".

I am aware that there is already an advanced melee system available in the Cannon Companion. However, I feel that that system is very flawed because it presents a lot of manuvers that would work in point fighting but not in the street or full contact competition, because it messed up the damage code on throws, created artificial divisions between various martial arts based on what people decided to call the martial arts, and by not really implementing a good grappling engine.

The goal of this hand to hand combat system was not to be strictly realistic since that would have disrupted game balance pretty severely. After all, in real life, punches are almost never effective against someone with a shotgun. On the other hand, though, the blatant fantasyland bullshido nightmare that was the Canon Companion advanced hand to hand combat rules made me gnash my teeth in rage every time I read them. The goal of these rules, therefore, is to provide a SEMIREALISTIC hand to hand combat system that is relatively simple, which dosen't disturb game balance, and which is relatively easy to use in terms of game mechanics.

What you are reading here is a culmination of writing and thought since the summer of 2004. Between then and now I wrote up an entire hand to hand combat system, scrapped it, simplified it, streamlined it, and changed it into what you are reading here. It has not been playtested yet, so I'd be interested to hear any comments or thoughts that you might have.


Table of Contents:

Section 1: Pugilism and grappling

Section 2: Manuvers Overview

Section 3: Manuvers Described In Detail

Section 4: Melee Weapons

Section 5: Killing Hands






Section 1: Pugilism and grappling


I have replaced Unarmed Combat with two new skills linked to STR. They are "Pugilism" and "t3h gr4ppl3" (or "grappling"; the l33t is a bullshido.net injoke since people there began sarcasting l33t speak to make fun of 13 year old Gracie fanatics.) [EDIT - Changing t3h gr4ppl3 to "grappling" just for you guys, since so many people complained.] Both of them function like Unarmed Combat in that when you would make an Unarmed Combat test you would instead roll either your Pugilism or t3h gr4ppl3. However, since the UFC has demonstrated the value of cross training pugilism and grappling are treated as complimentary skills. That way someone with Pugilism 6 and grappling 6 will get more dice in an opposed test than his opponent with only grappling 6. This introduces a nice element of realism since after a point it becomes less efficient to improve your fighter by focusing only on standup or only on grappling and more efficient to start crosstraining a little.


Section 2: Manuvers Overview


Both Pugilism and grappling allow their users to attack or defend using particular manuvers. Although there is some overlap between the manuvers and the Pugilism-grappling dichotomy splits apart some skills that in reality people are likely to learn together I feel what I have set up works pretty well in terms of smooth game mechanics. The manuvers listed below will be fully explained further below.

Pugilism has the manuvers: Pugilistic Physical Damage, Pugilistic Positioning, M Stun, Pugilistic Throw, Pugilistic Disarm.

When you get the Pugilism skill it comes with M Stun for free. Thereafter, for each level of skill beyond 1 you have you may add one of the 5 remaining manuvers to your repertoire until at skill level 5 you have them all.

t3h gr4ppl3 has the manuvers: Grappling Positioning, Groundwork, Grappling Physical Damage, Grappling Throw/Takedown, Grappling Disarm.

When you get grappling it comes with Grappling Physical Damage for free. Thereafter you can add manuvers in exactly the same way as with Pugilism.

When attacking or defending with either Pugilism or t3h gr4ppl3 you must use one of the manuvers. All of the manuvers are rolled for just like for Unarmed Combat; an opposed test between the combatants to determine whether you or the opponent succeeded, and with the net succeses determining the degree of success.


Section 3: Manuvers Described In Detail


All of the manuvers are rolled for just like for Unarmed Combat; an opposed test between the combatants to determine whether you or the opponent succeeded, and with the net succeses determining the degree of success.

Pugilism Manuvers Described In Detail:

M Stun: This works exactly like regular Unarmed Combat from SR3 where the damage code is STR M Stun. It represents the skill of hitting fast, hard, and skillfully at targets like the groin, head, solar plexus, and ribs. This is what you are likely to see in a boxing match, a muay thai match, or a full contact karate match.

Pugilistic Positioning: This is similar to Take Aim in some ways. It's complicated but important so it gets a few paragraphs. Every net 2 successes on Pugilistic Positioning that you gain on your opponent gives you a -1 TN bonus and your opponent a +1 TN penalty the next time you use a Pugilism manuver against the opponent whom you have positioned on.

Like with Take Aim you may use Pugilistic Positioning consecutive times and the bonus and penalty accrued will stack if you are successful repeatedly. Like with Take Aim if you use combat pool for any reason other than attacking or defending against the opponent you were Positioning against all Positioning bonuses will be lost. Getting knocked to the ground or knocked away from your opponent will also cause you to lose your Positioning bonuses.

Just as Take Aim only gives a bonus to one attack, Positioning only will convey the accumulated bonus to one consecutive non-positioning Pugilism manuver.

An opponent cannot disengage or move away from melee combat if he is recieving a net TN penalty from Positioning tests. If an opponent wishes to break free he must neutralize the TN penalty on him by succeeding with his own Positioning tests until the penalty is neutralized or he manages to shift the penalty in his adversary's disfavor.

This is an important rule because if through Positioning you accumulate a negative TN bonus for yourself that is equal to or greater than twice the opponent's melee skill you gain an unbreakable submission hold on your opponent. The opponent cannot escape or take any physical action against you although you may lose the hold if you step away from your opponent, if you use combat pool for any reason, or if you get knocked down or knocked away from the opponent. You may inflict an irresistable D physical wound on anyone whom you have a submission hold on with a Complex Action; this represents snapping their spine. If the GM agrees that you have at least 20 undisturbed seconds (just under 7 combat turns) with someone in your submission hold you may use a blood choke to give them an irresistable D stun.

Pugilistic Positioning represents things like boxing clenchwork, standup judo kuzushi setups, standing joint lock jockeying from classical jujutsu, or wing chun/jun fan trapping.

Pugilistic Physical Damage: This works exactly like Unarmed Combat from SR3 with two important differences. The first difference is that your damage code is equal to (1/2 STR) L physical. The second is that the Power of this code is raised by 1 for each -1 TN bonus that you have gained through Positioning tests.

Pugilistic Throw: Roll your Pugilism dice in melee combat at a +1 TN penalty. If you win your damage code is (opponent's Body score) M stun and you make your opponent drop prone. The Power of this attack is raised by 1 for each -1 TN bonus that you have gained through prior successful Positioning tests.

This represents everything from wussy foot sweeps, kungfu head throws, and massive judo slams. The variable damage code represents whether the throw is more of a takedown or more of a devastating torqued head throw.

Pugilistic Disarm: Roll your Pugilism dice in melee combat against an armed opponent at a +2 TN penalty. If you succeed one of the opponent's weapons that he is holding (your choice) falls down to the ground. If you get at least 2 successes you can instead choose to hold his weapon.

t3h gr4ppl3

Grappling Positioning: This works exactly like Pugilistic Positioning but just as the bonuses from Pugilistic Positioning only apply to Pugilism Manuvers the bonuses from Grappling Positioning only apply to Grappling Manuvers. This skill can represent judo or chin na style standup positioning to set up for a takedown or lock but it also can represent things like brazilian jujutsu positioning on the ground.

Groundwork: Groundwork is a "passive" manuver that automatically gives you a bonus in certain situations; you cannot attack or defend with groundwork. If you are prone and your opponent is prone and you have Groundwork you will get an additional -1 TN bonus to t3h gr4ppl3 attacks or defenses you make for every 2 levels of grappling you have.

Grappling Physical Damage: This works in the same way as Pugilistic Physical Damage but being a Grappling skill it is compatible with Grappling Positioning. It represents limb breaking, eye gouging, and trachea crushing.

Grappling Throw/Takedown: This is like Pugilistic Throw but it has a different damage code and extra successes behave differently. The damage code is (opponent's Body + your Body)/2 M stun. Every 2 net successes instead of raising the damage code counts as 2 successes on a Grappling Positioning test against your opponent. Grappling Throw/Takedown can be followed up with further Grappling Positioning tests to stack bonuses further or to try and complete a submission hold. A character successfully executing Grappling Throw/Takedown against his opponent has the option of falling down on top of his opponent so that he can be prone along with his opponent if he likes. This represents things like a double leg takedown to a mount, a kneeling ippon seionage, or a koshi guruma where you fall on top of your opponent in kesa gatame. Basically, a takedown or throw with the objective of putting the thrower in an advantageous position to initiate grappling.

Grappling Disarm: Same as Pugilistic Disarm.


Section 4: Melee Weapons

Melee weapon skills (i.e. Edged Weapons, Clubs, etc) have manuvers that are the same as Pugilistic Positioning, Pugilistic Throw, and Pugilistic Disarm. You get to add one manuver per two levels of skill.

THIS IS IMPORANT: Emptyhanded combat (i.e. Pugilism, t3h gr4ppl3) is penalized with a +1 TN penalty when fighting against someone who is wielding an edged weapon and who is aware of and capable of responding to the unarmed attack or defense. An emptyhand surprise attack would not be subject to this penalty. This represents the difficulty in fighting emptyhanded against a blade.


Section 5: Killing Hands


Killing Hands may inflict its magical damage whenever damage would be inflicted through Pugilism or grappling, in which case the adept may choose whether he wants to use the normal damage code for his manuver or instead substitute his killing hands damage code. He does not get to inflict damage every time he wins a Positioning test.
Crimson Jack
QUOTE
They are "Pugilism" and "t3h gr4ppl3" (or "grappling"; the l33t is a bullshido.net injoke since people there began sarcasting l33t speak to make fun of 13 year old Gracie fanatics.)


Just calling it "The Grapple" or "Grappling" would give the work you've done a bit more credibility, but its not my masterpiece. I find l33t speak annoying as hell and it hurts my eyes every time I read t3h gr4ppl3 in your post, but whatever.

Overall, it looks like it would work out all right. I take it that you wont be allowing players to use the martial arts rules in CC. The pugilism/t3hgr4ppl3$$#!!! rules in lieu of standard? I'd be curious to know how it all works out as far as game balance is concerned.

It seems to take a bit of the individuality away of the different styles, since there are restrictions on some that you don't incur on others. Again though, I suppose that depends on whether you're banning the standard rules in lieu of the n3w 0n3$.

wink.gif
BitBasher
Generally speaking, taking a penalty to a TN on an opposed roll like melee means that you will never win unless your skill was already so much higher than theirs that you were going to massacre them anyway.
Crusher Bob
It sounds like positioning might be overpowered at a 2 TN difference, why it is 'two' penalties rather than the -1 OR +1 like reach is?

Also the 'cannot move away' should be changed to something like 'move away but get attacked, or something like that'. Otherwise the girlscout can trap mr death troll by simpling positioning on him once, mr death troll might just take the attack and leave.
Crimsondude 2.0
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
I have replaced Unarmed Combat with two new skills linked to STR. They are "Pugilism" and "t3h gr4ppl3" (or "grappling"; the l33t is a bullshido.net injoke since people there began sarcasting l33t speak to make fun of 13 year old Gracie fanatics.)

*looks around*

This isn't bullshido.net.
Tarantula
QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0)
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Dec 27 2004, 07:42 PM)
I have replaced Unarmed Combat with two new skills linked to STR.  They are "Pugilism" and "t3h gr4ppl3" (or "grappling"; the l33t is a bullshido.net injoke since people there began sarcasting l33t speak to make fun of 13 year old Gracie fanatics.)

*looks around*

This isn't bullshido.net.

I'd have to say that alone will cause his entire system to be utterly ignored, me included.
BitBasher
QUOTE (Tarantula)
QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0 @ Dec 28 2004, 12:43 AM)
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Dec 27 2004, 07:42 PM)
I have replaced Unarmed Combat with two new skills linked to STR.  They are "Pugilism" and "t3h gr4ppl3" (or "grappling"; the l33t is a bullshido.net injoke since people there began sarcasting l33t speak to make fun of 13 year old Gracie fanatics.)

*looks around*

This isn't bullshido.net.

I'd have to say that alone will cause his entire system to be utterly ignored, me included.

I concur doctor. wobble.gif
Wounded Ronin
Curses! Foiled again! nyahnyah.gif
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (Crimson Jack @ Dec 27 2004, 10:43 PM)
QUOTE
They are "Pugilism" and "t3h gr4ppl3" (or "grappling"; the l33t is a bullshido.net injoke since people there began sarcasting l33t speak to make fun of 13 year old Gracie fanatics.)


Just calling it "The Grapple" or "Grappling" would give the work you've done a bit more credibility, but its not my masterpiece. I find l33t speak annoying as hell and it hurts my eyes every time I read t3h gr4ppl3 in your post, but whatever.

Overall, it looks like it would work out all right. I take it that you wont be allowing players to use the martial arts rules in CC. The pugilism/t3hgr4ppl3$$#!!! rules in lieu of standard? I'd be curious to know how it all works out as far as game balance is concerned.

It seems to take a bit of the individuality away of the different styles, since there are restrictions on some that you don't incur on others. Again though, I suppose that depends on whether you're banning the standard rules in lieu of the n3w 0n3$.

wink.gif

To clarify, that is correct. These rules are intended to *replace* the CC advanced melee combat rules.


Man, I didn't know that "t3h gr4ppl3" would be getting such a harsh reaction. Heh, had I known I wouldn't have made that joke.


EDIT: I have, like a coward, caved in to public pressure, and removed t3h gr4pple from the DSF edition of these rules.
Crusher Bob
another thing youn didn;t seem to address is striking to gain a superior position for a grapple, or grappling to gain a superior position for a strike. So far, it sounds more reasonable that the CC rules, but then again, just about anything does.

Maybe you should post up some sample fights?

[edit]
you missed one instance in the section headers nyahnyah.gif
[/edit]
John Campbell
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
I have replaced Unarmed Combat with two new skills linked to STR.  They are "Pugilism" and "t3h gr4ppl3" (or "grappling"; the l33t is a bullshido.net injoke since people there began sarcasting l33t speak to make fun of 13 year old Gracie fanatics.)

Parody or no, it still makes you sound like a retard.

QUOTE
Pugilistic Positioning:  This is similar to Take Aim in some ways.  It's complicated but important so it gets a few paragraphs.  Every net 2 successes on Pugilistic Positioning that you gain on your opponent gives you a -1 TN bonus and your opponent a +1 TN penalty the next time you use a Pugilism manuver against the opponent whom you have positioned on.

Like with Take Aim you may use Pugilistic Positioning consecutive times and the bonus and penalty accrued will stack if you are successful repeatedly.  Like with Take Aim if you use combat pool for any reason other than attacking or defending against the opponent you were Positioning against all Positioning bonuses will be lost.  Getting knocked to the ground or knocked away from your opponent will also cause you to lose your Positioning bonuses.

Just as Take Aim only gives a bonus to one attack, Positioning only will convey the accumulated bonus to one consecutive non-positioning Pugilism manuver.

An opponent cannot disengage or move away from melee combat if he is recieving a net TN penalty from Positioning tests.  If an opponent wishes to break free he must neutralize the TN penalty on him by succeeding with his own Positioning tests until the penalty is neutralized or he manages to shift the penalty in his adversary's disfavor.

This is an important rule because if through Positioning you accumulate a negative TN bonus for yourself that is equal to or greater than twice the opponent's melee skill you gain an unbreakable submission hold on your opponent.  The opponent cannot escape or take any physical action against you although you may lose the hold if you step away from your opponent, if you use combat pool for any reason, or if you get knocked down or knocked away from the opponent.  You may inflict an irresistable D physical wound on anyone whom you have a submission hold on with a Complex Action; this represents snapping their spine.  If the GM agrees that you have at least 20 undisturbed seconds (just under 7 combat turns) with someone in your submission hold you may use a blood choke to give them an irresistable D stun.

Uh..... huh. So, if Ginny, the 1Str, 1 Body, Puglism 2 girl scout engages Tiny, the 18 Str, 18 Body, Pugilism 1 cybertroll in combat, uses Pugilistic Positioning, and, on the first pass, with a very little dice luck, rolls three successes to Tiny's one, Ginny has gained a -1 TN bonus and Tiny has a +1 TN penalty on further uses of Pugilism. Because Tiny has a net penalty, he cannot push his way past, disengage from, or just ignore the ineffectual blows from his much smaller, weaker opponent.

Furthermore, if, in the next pass, Ginny again rolls two more successes than Tiny (more likely this time, because she now has a TN bonus that more than offsets Tiny's Reach advantage), using Pugilistic Positioning, her bonus rises to -2/+2, and, because Ginny's -2 bonus is twice Tiny's 1 skill, she has gained a submission hold on him, that he cannot in any way break. And on top of that, she can kill him at will by snapping his spine. Never mind that his neck is bigger around than her torso, packed with synthetic muscle, armored, and his spine is laced with titanium.

Uh...... yeah. Right.
Wounded Ronin
Hmm, a lot of people seem to have noticed the Positioning thing. I might have to reconsider that...

On that subject I'll just say this: my idea was that Positioning, while powerful, wouldn't happen very often since PCs would have to worry about NPCs shooting at them, multiple assailants, and that kind of thing.
John Campbell
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
Hmm, a lot of people seem to have noticed the Positioning thing.  I might have to reconsider that...

On that subject I'll just say this:  my idea was that Positioning, while powerful, wouldn't happen very often since PCs would have to worry about NPCs shooting at them, multiple assailants, and that kind of thing.

Even disregarding the huge TN modifiers it gives (and in an opposed test like melee combat, TN modifiers are everything), it's an unresistable instakill that requires only two net successes against unskilled opponents, and not many more against opponents with nominal skills. Unless every single person that any character is ever likely to engage in hand-to-hand combat with in your game is a 6-skill smack-fu master, expect PCs to use it all the damn time. It's going to be a far faster kill, especially against high-Body opponents, than actually hitting them.
Crusher Bob
This just goes to show that in the world of SR, girl scouts are some of the deadliest things of two legs...
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (John Campbell)
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
Hmm, a lot of people seem to have noticed the Positioning thing.  I might have to reconsider that...

On that subject I'll just say this:  my idea was that Positioning, while powerful, wouldn't happen very often since PCs would have to worry about NPCs shooting at them, multiple assailants, and that kind of thing.

Even disregarding the huge TN modifiers it gives (and in an opposed test like melee combat, TN modifiers are everything), it's an unresistable instakill that requires only two net successes against unskilled opponents, and not many more against opponents with nominal skills. Unless every single person that any character is ever likely to engage in hand-to-hand combat with in your game is a 6-skill smack-fu master, expect PCs to use it all the damn time. It's going to be a far faster kill, especially against high-Body opponents, than actually hitting them.

Yes, but realistically jumping on someone and snapping their neck either while they are surprised or doing it relatively unopposed because they don't understand what you're trying to do is going to make them die faster than if you stand there and lay into them with impressive power hits.


However, from the perspective of game balance I can see how that would be bad. I'm rethinking that part of the rules right now.
Crimson Jack
Dropping the l33t speak is a step in the right direction. May the gods of figuring out your new system bless you. wink.gif
Edward
It is unfair to ignore his suggestions based on the one in joke from a different web site.

That said under this system I would never us unarmed combat as only a master has a chance against an armed opponent and rarely can I afford 2 melee skills, to be a doesn’t melee combatant I would need 2 for unarmed and one for blades.

Also I don’t like the submission hold instant kill.

Its interaction with a disarm (throwing combat pool and a point of karma pool in) can allow an easy kill against somebody that is only skilled with a weapon. Also the heavyset of armours would provide protection try breading the deck of somebody in heavy mill speck with helmet).

O and that skill should e called grapple

Edward
John Campbell
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
Yes, but realistically jumping on someone and snapping their neck either while they are surprised or doing it relatively unopposed because they don't understand what you're trying to do is going to make them die faster than if you stand there and lay into them with impressive power hits.

Go back, read my example scenario with Ginny the Girl Scout vs. Tiny the Troll, and consider how little it resembles "jumping on someone and snapping their neck either while they are surprised or doing it relatively unopposed because they don't understand what you're trying to do". Ginny has no advantage of surprise, is squared off against an opponent who is quite aware of her presence and actively engaging her in combat, and she's barely competent in unarmed combat (I gave her a 2 skill only because she needed the second point to get the maneuver) while he's only marginally less so. This isn't smack-fu master vs. confused idiot, it's a couple of barely-trained fighters, more like the drunken college kids in a barfight. On top of that, he's so vastly much larger, stronger, and tougher than she is that trying to snap his spine would be like trying to twist the head off an elephant with your bare hands. I don't care how surprised he is; it ain't happening.

And I'm a bit confused as to why the submission holds are under Pugilism rather than Grappling, anyway.
Kayne
Aye, rediculously over-the-top example aside, the positioning rule seems very overpowered. I would at least condsider putting in a few opposed tests, so Tiny the Wondertroll's strength and body have a chance to shine.
Deacon
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
Sage's Hand To Hand Combat system ver. 2.0

This is a hand to hand combat system for SR3 that I have created in which I try to balance realism and manageable game mechanics with a system that also does not disrupt game balance by not changing the power level of hand to hand combat overall very much. Furthermore it is designed so that players and busy gamemasters may still take a hand to hand combat skill that acts exactly like the old SR3 "Unarmed Combat".

[snip]

Mommy, it makes my brain hurt...

This is not manageable. Please return to the drawing board.

And buy a copy of Cannon Companion, ya cheap bastich! biggrin.gif
elbows
Like everyone else, I think positioning is very unbalanced. What if you gave a maximum -1 TN to the person with the position advantage? And throw out the submission hold/instakill bit entirely.

Also, I can say from experience that a properly-applied blood choke can take a lot less than 20 seconds to knock you out smile.gif
Personally, I'd have chokes just inflict stun damage.

Finally, it's clear from this system that you're a martial artist (and in fact, I can get an idea of what sort of martial artist you are). Thats fine, but you may find that players who aren't martial artists don't appreciate this level of detail and realism, or have trouble understanding what the manuevers are meant to be.
Paco
How about using positioning like reach and only giving 1 modifier to TN. Using John's example; Ginny the girls scout gains 2 more net successes than Tiny she can either apply the number to reduce her TN by 1 on the next attack or increase Tiny's by 1 on the next attack. Also with the submission in this instance say Ginny gets a 2 modifier on positioning test which Tiny can't break because he only has a skill on 1, but instead of an automatic kill, he takes damage automatically each phase that he can only resist with 1/2 his body score and the damage is physical. Every phase Ginny has to maintain her positioning test to keep the hold. This would give Ginny the advatange for having the higher skill and give into account Tiny probably would take a long time to go down from the little girl wrapped around his neck like a decorative choker.
Wounded Ronin
EDIT: Went and removed t3h gr4ppl3 for the DS forum edition...

Heh, in the context of martial arts, I have to ask...is the SN Paco as in the character Paco from Bloodsport?

Anyway, I would like to thank everyone here for their carefully thought out and helpful replies. I really appreciate the time and guidance of so many experienced SR players.

In order to incorporate some of these suggestions, I have gone and written up ver 2.1 of my rules. Positioning is reworked so that it's weaker and so that Body can enter into the equation of damage caused through it. I also slightly changed Physical Damage so that it only gets Power bonuses from +1 TN penalties inflicted through positioning; I figure that since negative TN bonuses are conventionally considered to be more powerful than penalties to the other guy I'd lay that rule in favor of the weaker bonus.

Without further ado, ver 2.1!
=====================
Sage's Hand To Hand Combat system ver. 2.1

This is a hand to hand combat system for SR3 that I have created in which I try to balance realism and manageable game mechanics with a system that also does not disrupt game balance by not changing the power level of hand to hand combat overall very much. Furthermore it is designed so that players and busy gamemasters may still take a hand to hand combat skill that acts exactly like the old SR3 "Unarmed Combat".

I am aware that there is already an advanced melee system available in the Cannon Companion. However, I feel that that system is very flawed because it presents a lot of manuvers that would work in point fighting but not in the street or full contact competition, because it messed up the damage code on throws, created artificial divisions between various martial arts based on what people decided to call the martial arts, and by not really implementing a good grappling engine.

The goal of this hand to hand combat system was not to be strictly realistic since that would have disrupted game balance pretty severely. After all, in real life, punches are almost never effective against someone with a shotgun. On the other hand, though, the blatant fantasyland bullshido nightmare that was the Canon Companion advanced hand to hand combat rules made me gnash my teeth in rage every time I read them. The goal of these rules, therefore, is to provide a SEMIREALISTIC hand to hand combat system that is relatively simple, which dosen't disturb game balance, and which is relatively easy to use in terms of game mechanics.

What you are reading here is a culmination of writing and thought since the summer of 2004. Between then and now I wrote up an entire hand to hand combat system, scrapped it, simplified it, streamlined it, and changed it into what you are reading here. It has not been playtested yet, so I'd be interested to hear any comments or thoughts that you might have.

Version 2.1 update - At the suggestion of people on DSF (forums.dumpshock.com) I revised Positioning in significant ways.


Table of Contents:

Section 1: Pugilism and Grappling

Section 2: Manuvers Overview

Section 3: Manuvers Described In Detail

Section 4: Melee Weapons

Section 5: Killing Hands






Section 1: Pugilism and Grappling



I have replaced Unarmed Combat with two new skills linked to STR. They are "Pugilism" and "t3h gr4ppl3" (or "grappling"; the l33t is a bullshido.net injoke since people there began sarcasting l33t speak to make fun of 13 year old Gracie fanatics.) Both of them function like Unarmed Combat in that when you would make an Unarmed Combat test you would instead roll either your Pugilism or Grappling. However, since the UFC has demonstrated the value of cross training pugilism and Grappling are treated as complimentary skills. That way someone with Pugilism 6 and Grappling 6 will get more dice in an opposed test than his opponent with only Grappling 6. This introduces a nice element of realism since after a point it becomes less efficient to improve your fighter by focusing only on standup or only on grappling and more efficient to start crosstraining a little.


Section 2: Manuvers Overview


Both Pugilism and Grappling allow their users to attack or defend using particular manuvers. Although there is some overlap between the manuvers and the Pugilism-Grappling dichotomy splits apart some skills that in reality people are likely to learn together I feel what I have set up works pretty well in terms of smooth game mechanics. The manuvers listed below will be fully explained further below.

Pugilism has the manuvers: Pugilistic Physical Damage, Pugilistic Positioning, M Stun, Pugilistic Throw, Pugilistic Disarm.

When you get the Pugilism skill it comes with M Stun for free. Thereafter, for each level of skill beyond 1 you have you may add one of the 5 remaining manuvers to your repertoire until at skill level 5 you have them all.

Grappling has the manuvers: Grappling Positioning, Groundwork, Grappling Physical Damage, Grappling Throw/Takedown, Grappling Disarm.

When you get Grappling it comes with Grappling Physical Damage for free. Thereafter you can add manuvers in exactly the same way as with Pugilism.

When attacking or defending with either Pugilism or Grappling you must use one of the manuvers. All of the manuvers are rolled for just like for Unarmed Combat; an opposed test between the combatants to determine whether you or the opponent succeeded, and with the net succeses determining the degree of success.


Section 3: Manuvers Described In Detail


All of the manuvers are rolled for just like for Unarmed Combat; an opposed test between the combatants to determine whether you or the opponent succeeded, and with the net succeses determining the degree of success.

Pugilism Manuvers Described In Detail:

M Stun: This works exactly like regular Unarmed Combat from SR3 where the damage code is STR M Stun. It represents the skill of hitting fast, hard, and skillfully at targets like the groin, head, solar plexus, and ribs. This is what you are likely to see in a boxing match, a muay thai match, or a full contact karate match.

Pugilistic Positioning: This is similar to Take Aim in some ways. It's complicated but important so it gets a few paragraphs. Every net 2 successes on Pugilistic Positioning that you gain on your opponent gives you at your option either a -1 TN bonus or your opponent a +1 TN penalty the next time you use a Pugilism manuver against the opponent whom you have positioned on.

Like with Take Aim you may use Pugilistic Positioning consecutive times and the bonus and penalty accrued will stack if you are successful repeatedly. Like with Take Aim if you use combat pool for any reason other than attacking or defending against the opponent you were Positioning against all Positioning bonuses will be lost. Getting knocked to the ground or knocked away from your opponent will also cause you to lose your Positioning bonuses.

Just as Take Aim only gives a bonus to one attack, Positioning only will convey the accumulated bonus to one consecutive non-positioning Pugilism manuver.

An opponent who wishes to disengage or move away from melee combat if he is recieving a net TN penalty from Positioning tests cannot do so freely. If an opponent wishes to break free he must succeed in an opposed skill test against whoever has given him the Positioning penalty. If he does break free and move away this naturally nullifies all positioning bonuses or penalties for both fighters. Also, if the opponent wishes to make a Dodge Test outside of the context of Full Defense he must first break free.

This is an important rule because if through Positioning you accumulate a TN penalty for your opponent that is equal to or greater than the opponent's BOD score or the opponent's skill level, whichever is greater, you can cause him additional damage at the end of each turn. At the end of each applicable turn, your opponent must resist [1/2 (your STR)] + (amount by which the opponent's TN penalty exceeds his or her BOD or skill level) D damage. This damage cannot be dodged and is resisted with Body, combat pool, and 1/2 impact armor. The damage may be physical, to represent air choking, joint snapping, and spinal destruction. It may also be stun at your option to represent a blood choke. However, if you fail to inflict a D stun before your opponent escapes or is released he will recover 1 box of stun inflicted through the blood choke per combat turn; a D stun is treated normally. You will lose your Positioning bonus and will cease to inflict this damage at the end of each turn if you step away from your opponent, if you use combat pool for any reason other than attacking the opponent whom you have used Positioning against, or if you get knocked down or knocked away from the opponent.

Pugilistic Positioning represents things like boxing clenchwork, standup judo kuzushi setups, standing joint lock jockeying from classical jujutsu, or wing chun/jun fan trapping. The damage that may be caused through Positioning represents either a standing blood choke for the stun damage, or else systematic joint breaking, a hard trachea choke, or continuous wrenching on the spine for physical damage.

Pugilistic Physical Damage: This works exactly like Unarmed Combat from SR3 with two important differences. The first difference is that your damage code is equal to (1/2 STR) L physical. The second is that the Power of this code is raised by 1 for each +1 TN penalty that you have given your opponent through Positioning tests.

Pugilistic Throw: Roll your Pugilism dice in melee combat at a +1 TN penalty. If you win your damage code is (opponent's Body score) M stun and you make your opponent drop prone. The Power of this attack is raised by 1 for each -1 TN bonus that you have gained through prior successful Positioning tests.

This represents everything from wussy foot sweeps, kungfu head throws, and massive judo slams. The variable damage code represents whether the throw is more of a takedown or more of a devastating torqued head throw.

Pugilistic Disarm: Roll your Pugilism dice in melee combat against an armed opponent at a +2 TN penalty. If you succeed one of the opponent's weapons that he is holding (your choice) falls down to the ground. If you get at least 2 successes you can instead choose to hold his weapon.

Grappling

Grappling Positioning: This works exactly like Pugilistic Positioning but just as the bonuses from Pugilistic Positioning only apply to Pugilism Manuvers the bonuses from Grappling Positioning only apply to Grappling Manuvers. This skill can represent judo or chin na style standup positioning to set up for a takedown or lock but it also can represent things like brazilian jujutsu positioning on the ground. When Positioning starts to do damage it represents breaking joints, attacks against the spine, and blood chokes, just like Pugilistic Positioning.

Groundwork: Groundwork is a "passive" manuver that automatically gives you a bonus in certain situations; you cannot attack or defend with groundwork. If you are prone and your opponent is prone and you have Groundwork you will get an additional -1 TN bonus to t3h gr4ppl3 attacks or defenses you make for every 2 levels of Grappling you have.

Grappling Physical Damage: This works in the same way as Pugilistic Physical Damage but being a Grappling skill it is compatible with Grappling Positioning. It represents limb breaking, eye gouging, and trachea crushing.

Grappling Throw/Takedown: This is like Pugilistic Throw but it has a different damage code and extra successes behave differently. The damage code is (opponent's Body + your Body)/2 M stun. Every 2 net successes instead of raising the damage code counts as 2 successes on a Grappling Positioning test against your opponent. Grappling Throw/Takedown can be followed up with further Grappling Positioning tests to stack bonuses further or to try and complete a submission hold. A character successfully executing Grappling Throw/Takedown against his opponent has the option of falling down on top of his opponent so that he can be prone along with his opponent if he likes. This represents things like a double leg takedown to a mount, a kneeling ippon seionage, or a koshi guruma where you fall on top of your opponent in kesa gatame. Basically, a takedown or throw with the objective of putting the thrower in an advantageous position to initiate grappling.

Grappling Disarm: Same as Pugilistic Disarm.


Section 4: Melee Weapons

Melee weapon skills (i.e. Edged Weapons, Clubs, etc) have manuvers that are the same as Pugilistic Positioning, Pugilistic Throw, and Pugilistic Disarm. You get to add one manuver per two levels of skill.

THIS IS IMPORANT: Emptyhanded combat (i.e. Pugilism, Grappling) is penalized with a +1 TN penalty when fighting against someone who is wielding an edged weapon and who is aware of and capable of responding to the unarmed attack or defense. An emptyhand surprise attack would not be subject to this penalty. This represents the difficulty in fighting emptyhanded against a blade.


Section 5: Killing Hands


Killing Hands may inflict its magical damage whenever damage would be inflicted through Pugilism or t3h gr4ppl3, in which case the adept may choose whether he wants to use the normal damage code for his manuver or instead substitute his killing hands damage code. He does not get to inflict damage every time he wins a Positioning test unless he has given his opponent enough of a TN penalty that the opponent is taking damage at the end of the turn; in this case the Killing Hands damage could be substituted at the end of the turn for the normal Positioning damage code.
Doggbert
Some suggestions/thoughts:

1
Restrict the maximum total bonus you can gain from positioning to your total skill (grappling or pugilist according to what positioning you're using), to avoid the never-ending downward spiral of an ever increasing #TN.

2
One of the problems with the original melee rules as I remember them is that a fast character can actually get beaten more times each round because she's fast. Since it's not mentioned, I assume you can not be hurt on your own action/phase using these rules. If so, I applaud it. Also, instead of making it impossible to get out of bad positioning (i.e. whenever you have a negative modifier from positioning), couldn't the combatant that has 'position' get an extra attack as a free action when her opponent tries to leave the melee, a little like the 'attack of opportunity' rules from (GASP!) D&D? Something of the sort at least, because the word impossible should probably be avoided. It should be hard, certainly, but not impossible...

3
Somehow factor in strength when you get a 'lock' on someone. You always hear that technique is everything, but strength does matter. I have trained some judo-like martial arts, and that's my experience at least. It is at the very least a definite tie-breaker if you and your opponent are of similar skill.
(And that troll-vs-girl scout-example is an abomination. smile.gif )

Just some stuff that I'd probably do with this system if I was to use it (and I just might, because it's probably the best melee system for SR I've seen to date). It might open up for other problems though...
Paco
The second draft looks good. smile.gif

Nope, the SN Paco isn't in reference to Bloodsport.

Working of of Doggberts post, I agree with the TN modifier restriction, although I am not sure about making equal to the skill seems just a tad off, maybe the difference in skill between the fighters, plus 1/2 th skill, the bonus could never be lower than 1/2 the skill. My group plays with the house that in melee you can only damage someone during phases you have actions in when couterattacking.
Wounded Ronin
The thing about limiting the upper reaches of the TN restriction is that that could make it impossible to defeat someone with Positioning, which is one thing that I had thought would be nice to represent advanced grappling. I guess I'll decide what to do finally after I get a chance to playtest.


As for only being able to damage someone on your own turn, that would be relatively easy to implement. I could just say that there are no counter attacks. That might make battles more strategic in that it wouldn't necessarily be a good idea to dump a lot of pool into your defense if you're looking to hurt the other guy later with a melee attack.

My main concern with that would be the effect on game balance. The role of counter-attacks on how smart it is for you to attack someone in melee based on how high your skill level is was pretty major. Getting rid of counter attacks would make it so that there's be no reason not to keep throwing out no-pool melee attacks whenever you had the chance to make one, since you couldn't be counter-punched.

I'm not really sure what to do with that one. I see and can agree with either there being counter attacks or there being no counter attacks. I guess I could say that it's an optional rule type thingie; the system works just as well without counter attacks so if the GM wants to take them out that's easily done and not at all frowned upon.
Wounded Ronin
I think I'll finally playtest this thing soon, maybe in like 3 weeks.

Then, finally, I can rest.

I'm also thinking that I might go and write up some simple rules for a chop socky type RPG, although I'd use the shadowrun system of skills and so forth as an engine.

I like that much better than d20 anyway, which I think is a lot harder to write for.
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