The Elves have Tir Taingire and TirNaNog. The ex-Theran Heavenherds have Azania. Who knows what has Aztlan. The Great Dragons are still flying around. So where are the Denairastas'? The Denairastas were pseudo-Immortal Humans the children of an 'Outcast' Great Dragon who taught them Dragon magic and Dragon secrets. In the Earthdawn world they are presently alive and kicking ass conquering territory in Barsaive. Straight up, I'd put my money on Uhl Denairastas over any of those Throalic pussies. So where did The Holders of Trust, the Denairastas secret police/society go?

Once Magic faded out, power became strictly Aristocratic so the Denairastas would have married into/become aristocrats all over Europe and even Asia. Ever heard of this idiot Ex-soccer player from England, David Icke? He claims that the earth is ruled by shapeshifting lizards from the 4th dimension. All the aristocrats and world leaders for millenia have been or are these lizards and so are the powerful business people. Gee, sounds exactly like the Denairastas. The Denairastas wyrmed their way into the Aristocracy millenia ago until every baron and king was related at least distantly. The Holders of Trust and their secret knowledge was exclusive to the most important/direct Denairastas bloodlines like Windsors, Hapsburgs, Imperial Japanese Moonchildren. Now with the 6th age of magic and Dragons back in the world - look out world cuz here comes the Inbred blue-blooded, green skinned Denairastas.

Uhl Denairastas as nearly a direct child of their 'Outcast' dragon father, he could still be immortal and hanging around. Keeping a low profile and planning world domination. Why not the King of England and the Emperor of Japan as Denairastas Holders of Trust, just biding their time until the big guy returns to rule the earth as the rightful King? All of a sudden you've got Uhl Denairastas, the most evil human being ever with relatives all over the globe in positions of power making his play. Plus what ever happened to the 'Outcast' Great Dragon? Does he have a name? He wakes up from his long nap with Uhl and BAM, Lofwyr's got some serious competition in Europe.

The Copper Branch is filled with troglodyte Royalists, the Silver Branch is some Hi-tech Merc/Security corp like Knight Errant (maybe Damien Knight is a Denairastas?), the Gold Branch is some Delta Ware-Cybered Decker/Mage Initiatory Group, while the Orichalcum Branch are Orichalcum plated, quicken spelled Killbots. I'm sick of Lofwyr, he's got it too easy. In Europe and around the world. What's that you say? Monarchist revolutions breaking out all across Europe? Uhl has set himself back up in ancient Iopos and he's got Russia and their nucs (what's left) pointed at Lofwyrs back? That's what 'Shadows of Europe' needs, a half-wyrm human immortal vs Lofwyr.

Long Live Uhl Denairastas, King of Earth!

Let me guess, you're a long lost relation of Ancient History.

FUck no.

If Denairastas survived the 4th world, he and his kin are keepin' mighty low.

Actually, I was referring to his chances of being related to me.

I AM the Master, boy.

HAH! there's evidence of AH's existence as a part of the MALE specie!!! Truly, the MALE is the better of the two, as exhibited by our one and only!!!!

Edit: Whatever . Anyway, 'Master' is the male term for 'mistress', right? or im totally wrong.

Yesss...though anybody could have told you I'm a guy...ask Rosa.

AH I am truly sorry to inform you that you are wrong.

You are not a male, you are a *lot* of monkeys with typewriters.

Male monkeys. And those typewriters are Smith-Coronas, biatch!

Sooo, would that be immortal male monkeys, or male monkeys who hire nympho interns to procreate to replace the old, dying male monkeys?

Please AH, enlighten us!

Trying to get back on topic, is there a chance these whatsits you're talking about are the Cabal? I don't have either Threats book nor do I know much about ED, but I have read enoguh on here to know that the Cabal is some sort of uber-powerful, uber-secretive magical organization of some sort and I think I heard something about them not being so nice to elves. Perhaps this is them.

The Abstruse One

All monkeys are actually Awakened woodwoses, who are Immune to Aging.

Even in fantasy, I can't get laid.

Suspects

• Human Nation
• Black Lodge
• New Revolution

My bet is the Human Nation using Saito and the New Revolution as pawns to regain control of North America. Of course, Saito making deals with Shedim and the New Rev failing utterly will crimp their plans.

Most of them died fighting each other over power and feuds -just like the elves. Good thing Immortals can't stand one another, or we'd have thousands to deal with instead of *30* some odd survivors.

Two things......

I'm not sure that the Denairastas clan ever achieved immortality. At best I'd say they were long lived. IF they survived at all it was by teaching magical techniques from one generation to the next during the mana low fifth age.

As to the dragon..... Denairastas may well be dead. I suspect that the other dragons would have killed him if they could. If he's alive he's one of the more secretive dragons.

Well they already kicked him out of the club but never went after him directly. Although they were having to work round the IE's and Thera at the time, so if they ever got in the clear.

And as someone said, it's debatable if they were immortal. Yes they were dragon kin from what's been written of them, but immortal not so sure. Revolves around what it takes to make an immortal. If it's just a dragon in human form having kids with an ordinary human, they're immortal. If it takes something more special though, getting some help from the Passions is one that I've heard mentioned and other major rituals, they're probably just really long lived - 400 years or so I think - humans with slight natural bonuses.

At the moment I'm leaning towards the latter. In ED the dragons gave Neden a potion to extend his life, to give him the 'long view' like Uhl had, but that made it real hard to have kids, just like Uhl. Still gives them a hell of a long time to build up their initiation grades though. Plus getting taught by a dragon isn't likely to hurt either.

Well, how about this for a thought?

Tibet.

Didn't the Renraku ex-CEO, Inazo Aneki, end up getting invited past the Tibetan warding-walls by something that Dunkelzahn gifted him with in his will? Dragon's gifts... mysterious civilization hidden away behind astonishingly powerful mystical wards... there's a possible connection there, no?

The Denairastas are CLEARLY keeping a low profile. My suggestion of Uhl making his come back was strictly an idea on how to liven up the SR world. Obviously I'm not writing offical stuff and defining SR, I'm giving my opinion of what easily could be coming up. Uhl was a direct or nearly direct descendent of a dragon and with his serious magical knowledge and total lack of scrupals, I'm sure he is immortal, if not through birth then through blood magic/horror pacts. I was giving my take on what I'd do with the Denairastas if I were the SR guys advancing the game world.

Suspicions of the Cabal being Denairastas are good. Clearly they're lurking in the shadows and not in the open. Clearly they are pro-human or just anti-elven (same thing), the Denairastas all being humans. Clearly they have serious magical knowledge and connectiosn, enough to challenge any group in the 6th world. Clearly they want world domination and hate Dragons and elves, particularly the immortal elves which are the children of the dragons. The clear and logical extension of the Denairastas plans for global domination lies in the Aristocracy that ruled earth for millenia. They would have taken their special bloodline and taken over all the aristocratic offices across Europe and Asia though they might never have gotten to the Americas. So it isn't a stretch to think the Denairastas and The Holders of Trust are secretly the Imperial royal family and the royal families of Europe.

So what has Uhl been up to? Clearly he's biding his time, scheming in the background. But when he strikes, we'll see monarchist revolutions, the rise of the aristocracy, serious attacks on the global economy and Megacorps. What's the greatest threat to Aristocracy? Those not of the 'blood' with power. Megacorps can be owned by anyone and often seem to be owned wholey or in part by dragons. The Aristocracy needs real feudalism, real control, so expect Uhl to be planning the destruction of both nations, as weak as they are and the whole economic structure of the 6th world. How about a nuc fired at Zurich Orbital? How about a MEGA AI/VIRUS to wreck the matrix. Destroying financial records and institutions would collapse the world economy. So expect the Denairastas to be heavily into matrix/AI research and activities and into viral research. After all, if they won't worship Uhl as true king of the world, just hand out antidote to super-X virus to the loyal royalists. Feudalism doesn't require large populatiosn anyway. Eugenics is a big part of Uhls plans I'm sure.

The Denairastas will replace governments with fiefdoms. A world Emperor sitting on his Malachite throne in Russia while Mage-Dukes and Mage-Barrons rule the rest of the world using magic and total control of highly restricted tech. No cred sticks, certainly high tech stuff for the use of The Holders of Trust and their favorites, but low-tech for the rest of humanity. What do peasents need medicine or TV for? As long as they worship Uhl and the other Denairastas, they'll feel lucky to survive on the scraps they'll be given. Uhl will keep exploring space, keep researching high tech stuff but will have total control over it. The Holders of Trust will now have a Plastic Branch that does all the high tech research and engineering, all sworn to Uhl.

HAIL UHL, EMPEROR OF EARTH!

Just a note, how the Hell is it clear that the Cabal is anti-Elven? Not that I have trouble seeing Iopos violently explode when the mana falls, but there's a few more likely candidates, don't you think?

Oh, as for Tibet: I'd bet something's at work there, if only from the Ward, but they did put humpty-dumpty (er, Inazo Aneki) back together again.

Don't ask me, I don't have the damn book yet I'm just going on what I've read on here, so if I'm misinformed or misreading something, please tell me.

The Abstruse One

Try my Annotated Magic and Death page.

No, I meant the Cabal. I don't have the Threats books, so all I know of the Cabal is what I've read on here and that the two mages in Cybertechnology, who were speaking candidly about the Tirs, Aztechnology, etc., wouldn't even mention them on a secure encrypted line. And obviously what I've read on here I've misinterpreted.

The Abstruse One

Could any one provide information(preferably detailed) on the cabal.

Thanx

Well, the best you'll find is my Annotated Magic and Death; aside from some wild (albei amusing) speculation by lone Gunman in Threats.

Prince Victor Steiner-Davion-Denairastas? Talk about symetry.

Well I was just reading Dragons and came up with a question. Was Denairastas alone in his attempt to create a uber-human? He could have had secondary dragon assistiants.

I possible example of this is Calozerca the Polish Dragon. The book would have us believe that he was imprisioned in his lair and only recently released. I suppose a reason for the imprisionment of a dragon is if he could have been working with the Great Dragon Denairastas....

I didn't play to much Earthdawn but from what I remember Poland would be close to the area that the human followers of Denairastas originated.

argh u beat me to it...

from what little I know about ED and from Dragons I was under the impression that Outcast was the dragon that woke up in poland, so mabey his folowers are there

Actually, I'm wondering if the imprisoned dragon was actually Vestrivan, the horror corrupted dragon. I don't think DotSW was clear enough to come to any conclusions.

Vestrivan is kinda MIA, presumed dead. And the coloring's wrong.

I've been thinking about this on my own, and a quick search turned up this topic. I think the Black Lodge are an excellent candidate for the heirs to the Denairastas legacy.

The Black Lodge is:
- largely hereditary in membership
- integrated into the traditional ruling families of Europe
- made up of human mages
- predjudiced against having elven spawn
- all about ruling the world
- led by the Penultimate Master. Which implies that there is an Ultimate Master who hasn't been available or has better things to do.

Hm.

"Ancient Spirits of Evil, Transform this decayed form, to Mumm-Ra FORUM THREAD, the Ever-Living!"



For TEN years ? .... wow

What's worse: For a split second I was tempted to make a reference about Sho'Nuff towards AH and his self-proclamation of being "THE MASTER" ... right before I remembered "bad things" ...

Yeah, I thought so too. "Woohoo, Bobby's ba....ah crap. "

He's been writing a bunch of Delta Green stuff lately. I was looking through the latest Unspeakable Oath and went "OH WOW NEAT!"

That makes two of us

he does the unpublishable too, short stories of all kinds.
mostly steampunk, fantasy with themes of necromancy and some scifi.
http://the-unpublishable.com/
usually updates once a week, friday.
reason why there are no comments from me on most of these is that i comment on them elsewhere.

Just look at "Black Secret" by Synner (Loose Alliances outtake) about the creation of the Black Lodge: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...mp;#entry472150

Specifically this quote (emphasis mine): That would probably be the Outcast.


He also does Farcast for 2013, insane stuff, one article per day (!) on Eclipse Phase: http://www.farcastblog.com/

I know this is an ancient thread (no pun intended). But after reading the beginning of this thread it reminded me of the dragons culling certain families during the night of rage. Sam Verners bloodline was one of those iirc.

Interesting indeed.