I was just wondering if there were any firearm creation programs, or a rigger 3 program?
The NSRCG is awesome, no disrespect.
Full Version: Any other programs?
The Shop is a program for making vehicles, and I know there's a few gun programs floating around.
The Shop is not fully compatable with SR3. I have heard several people proclaim an interest in updating it, but seen no results as of yet though.
Are any of the programs CC compatable? If yes, where can I get ahold of them?
Not that I know of. As with The Shop, several people have expressed interest in making a CC-compatable gun program, but no results have been forthcoming to my knowledge.
| QUOTE (Rajaat99) |
| Are any of the programs CC compatable? If yes, where can I get ahold of them? |
There is this program that makes use of the weapon construction rules.
However:
- it's german
- it uses the german version of the construction rules (Arsenal 2060) that are slightly from the original CC rules
- Last time I heard about it, the program still had some errors and its programmer currently doesn't have the time to fix it.
- it's quite possible that the above link is an out-dated version, but I do not have a link to the programmer's site ...
I know I got a CC gun creation program from somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.
anyone know where i can get a copy of 'the shop'? the link i had bookmarked for michael ojestes' website is no longer valid.
Gawd, it's been so long since I did any kind of programming...
<ponders what language NSRCG and other such programs are written in>
<ponders what language NSRCG and other such programs are written in>
NSRCG is C++, IIRC.
Here's my recommendations if you're looking to code something new:
- Using a language that is cross-platform friendly is desirable, but not essential; as long as it runs on Windows, 95% of your target audience will be satisfied.
- If your app is a reference aid (die rollers, table lookups, miscellaneous calculators), Javascript is a good choice. It'll run on (damn near) anything with a web browser, so it can be considered cross-platform. Developer requirements are minimal (a text editor and a web browser, basically). And because it is an interpreted scripting language, end-users can modify the code to meet their needs if necessary.
- If your app needs to save to a file (character generator, drone generator, etc.), Java is a good cross-platform choice since 99% of the computers being sold today have some version of it already installed. However, it's file I/O routines are unusual and (personally) counter-intuitive.
- Python, Perl, and Ruby are also good choices, but may require users to download additional 3rd party software to run.
- If you're going for a Windows-only app, check out the Windows Scripting Host (WSH), a built-in scripting engine that uses Visual Basic or Javascript and has more intuitive I/O routines. Of course, you also have the field of .NET languages to play with: VB.net, C#, J#, and Visual Studio C++.
Hope this helps.
Here's my recommendations if you're looking to code something new:
- Using a language that is cross-platform friendly is desirable, but not essential; as long as it runs on Windows, 95% of your target audience will be satisfied.
- If your app is a reference aid (die rollers, table lookups, miscellaneous calculators), Javascript is a good choice. It'll run on (damn near) anything with a web browser, so it can be considered cross-platform. Developer requirements are minimal (a text editor and a web browser, basically). And because it is an interpreted scripting language, end-users can modify the code to meet their needs if necessary.
- If your app needs to save to a file (character generator, drone generator, etc.), Java is a good cross-platform choice since 99% of the computers being sold today have some version of it already installed. However, it's file I/O routines are unusual and (personally) counter-intuitive.
- Python, Perl, and Ruby are also good choices, but may require users to download additional 3rd party software to run.
- If you're going for a Windows-only app, check out the Windows Scripting Host (WSH), a built-in scripting engine that uses Visual Basic or Javascript and has more intuitive I/O routines. Of course, you also have the field of .NET languages to play with: VB.net, C#, J#, and Visual Studio C++.
Hope this helps.
I recommend a PHP/MySQL solution if someone is starting from scratch. This would be especially nice, since the GM would have instant access to review updates that players make as well as he will have exact up-to-date data to plan his runs. You would also be able to work on your char from any net accessible computer in the world.
| QUOTE (KeyMasterOfGozer) |
| I recommend a PHP/MySQL solution if someone is starting from scratch. |
*lol*
Sorry, unless you're talking server / client scenario and internet, that's a stupid suggestion. A third party database system and PHP processing capapbilities to run it on a client system is most definitely nothing to go for, when starting from scratch.
The fact that neither PHP nor MySQL currently do cost anything for private users is no argument there.
| QUOTE |
| This would be especially nice, since the GM would have instant access to review updates that players make as well as he will have exact up-to-date data to plan his runs. |
I just don't see, where PHP or MySQL would have anything to do with "instant" review updates or up-to-date planing. The key factor there is access, which has nothing to do with either PHP or MySQL.
| QUOTE |
| You would also be able to work on your char from any net accessible computer in the world. |
Provided that you have server system that is constantly reachable as well.
The major problem there: As common as 24/7 connections are for certain broadband users, they still aren't the default situation. And then of course the user still might want to use the program locally (including making changes to the database) and within that context your idea of using PHP and MySQL is a no-brainer.
The next problem is that not everybody (even amongst those who have 24/7 connections) is willing or capable of running a server system. We're still talking users not hobby / professional admins here.
Although I'm in the IT biz I still find it rather difficult to even get a normal Apache running in an acceptable manner without PHP or MySQL support, and you're seriously suggesting to go that way for a chargen (or any other SR tool)?
Weblogic and java apps like to crash all the time too.
| QUOTE (Cochise) | ||
*lol* Sorry, unless you're talking server / client scenario and internet, that's a stupid suggestion. A third party database system and PHP processing capapbilities to run it on a client system is most definitely nothing to go for, when starting from scratch. |
As a matter of fact, server/client and internet is PRECISELY what I am talking about. Source Forge is rife with this type of project, and for a very good reason. The Intenet is DESIGNED to share information as a community. A gaming group is such a Community. Having chars on an internet server gives instant access to any changes on a character to a GM.
| QUOTE (Cochise) |
I just don't see, where PHP or MySQL would have anything to do with "instant" review updates or up-to-date planing. The key factor there is access, which has nothing to do with either PHP or MySQL. |
You are precisely right that this "instant" review is part of it being a Web Application rather than it being PHP/MySQL per se, however, I still recommend PHP/MySQL over other types of Web Applications, because more ISPs support that format, and also because that format is Infinitely Scalable.
You could recommend .NET, but then good luck not paying twice as much for an ISP to host it.
| QUOTE (Cochise) | ||
Provided that you have server system that is constantly reachable as well. The major problem there: As common as 24/7 connections are for certain broadband users, they still aren't the default situation. And then of course the user still might want to use the program locally (including making changes to the database) and within that context your idea of using PHP and MySQL is a no-brainer. The next problem is that not everybody (even amongst those who have 24/7 connections) is willing or capable of running a server system. We're still talking users not hobby / professional admins here. Although I'm in the IT biz I still find it rather difficult to even get a normal Apache running in an acceptable manner without PHP or MySQL support, and you're seriously suggesting to go that way for a chargen (or any other SR tool)? |
Yes.... Are you using this server? Because this program, this Forum is PHP/MySQL. Every single end user does not have to have a server to use it. As a matter of fact, thousands are using it everyday, and most of them don't have a server.
If someone made a PHP/MySQL character generator/displayer, do you think it would be hard to convince someone at Dumpshock to get it running there? Do you think that there wouldn't be someone somewhere that might host it, like Dumpshock does these forums?
I play World Of Warcraft, and there are at least 3 sites that retrieve and display character information for free. This is incredibly useful, and I can't believe that especially for a game with as complicated a build system as SR would not benefit from this type of convience.
| QUOTE (KeyMasterOfGozer) |
| As a matter of fact, server/client and internet is PRECISELY what I am talking about. Source Forge is rife with this type of project, and for a very good reason. The Intenet is DESIGNED to share information as a community. A gaming group is such a Community. Having chars on an internet server gives instant access to any changes on a character to a GM. |
Other matter(s) of fact(s):
1. Noone so far talked about something like that
2. Your suggestion didn't talk of something like that either
3. Although a gaming group is a "community", that still doesn't make a web-based server-client system really a good idea for character generators and the majority of other suitable RPG tools ...
| QUOTE |
| You are precisely right that this "instant" review is part of it being a Web Application rather than it being PHP/MySQL per se, however, I still recommend PHP/MySQL over other types of Web Applications, because more ISPs support that format, and also because that format is Infinitely Scalable. |
I still wouldn't recommend anything like that, since I highly doubt the effectiveness of something that is normally used without Internet connection. Having to install MySQL and PHP in order to use that thing locally is even more unattractive than the current Half-Life 2 that requires I-Net connection to even install an play the game (later on you actually can play without a connection, but it's still a pain in the ass).
| QUOTE |
| You could recommend .NET, but then good luck not paying twice as much for an ISP to host it. |
Consequently I would recommend .NET or JAVA, since most users have either installed and there are no further setup requirements to be made (configuring MySQL correctly is yet another issue for the local user) ... And that recommendation is only valid as long as portability really is wanted.
| QUOTE |
| Yes.... Are you using this server? |
You obviously didn't catch my drift.
| QUOTE |
| Because this program, this Forum is PHP/MySQL. Every single end user does not have to have a server to use it. As a matter of fact, thousands are using it everyday, and most of them don't have a server. |
The problem there: I must be connected to the internet in order to use this forum
An application like a character generator is most definitely not a program that by its own virtue qualifies for a internet connection in order to be used =>
Anyone who wants to use this programm will have to run not only the client, but also the local server with PHP plus MySQL, if really is PHP and MySQL based ...
| QUOTE |
| If someone made a PHP/MySQL character generator/displayer, do you think it would be hard to convince someone at Dumpshock to get it running there? |
Probably not. But the idea as such is still not really convincing. Not everyone will be willing to pay connection fees, just to utilize a character generator. And yes, not everyone is connected to the Internet permanently and / or without traffic restrictions.
| QUOTE |
| Do you think that there wouldn't be someone somewhere that might host it, like Dumpshock does these forums? |
Even if so, the user will still depend on someone actually doing so. And if more than one person provides such a service, one of your major arguments rapidly will vanish: Instantly being up-to-date would depend on the individual provider and his update practices. And I'm dead sure that most admins out there are not too fond of the idea of people having access to their MySQL database with writing access in order to have their own set of gear and stuff. Something that is very common with programs like that (or why is it that people now start to hack Raygun's stuff into the .dat-files of NSRCG?) ...
| QUOTE |
| I play World Of Warcraft, and there are at least 3 sites that retrieve and display character information for free. This is incredibly useful, and I can't believe that especially for a game with as complicated a build system as SR would not benefit from this type of convience. |
You see, WoW is designed as an online game. But a character generator? Sorry, I still have my doubts. And just to make this clear: I once thought myself of creating a web based character generator and even started to implement it, before I realized that it's not the brightest idea in the first place ...
| QUOTE (Cochise) |
Other matter(s) of fact(s): 1. Noone so far talked about something like that 2. Your suggestion didn't talk of something like that either 3. Although a gaming group is a "community", that still doesn't make a web-based server-client system really a good idea for character generators and the majority of other suitable RPG tools ... |
1. Which is why I brought it up.
2. I was hoping that it would be implied by my suggestion of a Web-App
3. Web-Apps are useful for all sorts of communities. This Forum is such an example of a Web-App for an RPG community. I think that many of the threads here would be enhanced if a user could put in a link to a character sheet, or item description. These features are used all the time with 3rd party web-apps in computer gaming forums. RPGs are hardly very different at all. Most MMORPGs have webbased character creators and character data displays via 3rd party Web-Apps. These are EXTENSIVELY used.
Could you come up with cases where it would not be best, I'm sure. I can easily come up with cases where it would be best. Go rain on someone elses parade. If you don't want to use it, you don't have to.
| QUOTE (Cochise) |
The problem there: I must be connected to the internet in order to use this forum An application like a character generator is most definitely not a program that by its own virtue qualifies for a internet connection in order to be used => Anyone who wants to use this programm will have to run not only the client, but also the local server with PHP plus MySQL, if really is PHP and MySQL based ... |
I will give you that, but it is a rarity these days for most people to use a PC without an internet connection, and you are DEAD WRONG that they would have to have a local copy. I once again point to this Forum, which is on the Internet, I use it everyday, and I don't have a copy of MySQL or PHP on this computer. But I can use it from here at work or at my house later, or both with not setup and no data to transfer.
| QUOTE (Cochise) |
doing so. And if more than one person provides such a service, one of your major arguments rapidly will vanish: Instantly being up-to-date would depend on the individual provider and his update practices. And I'm dead sure that most admins out there are not too fond of the idea of people having access to their MySQL database with writing access in order to have their own set of gear and stuff. Something that |
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Web Applications don't require and admin to keep the data up-to-date. Everytime a user changes something and posts the form, the Data online is automatically updated.
I have to point again to this very Forum, where myself and thousands of others fill out forms and post data that is instantly available to everyone else on the internet, and we all do it on some other admin's MySQL database for free. And this forum contains hordes more data than a char gen DB would.
| QUOTE (Cochise) |
You see, WoW is designed as an online game. But a character generator? Sorry, I still have my doubts. And just to make this clear: I once thought myself of creating a web based character generator and even started to implement it, before I realized that it's not the brightest idea in the first place ... |
LOL, that's because EVERY application is moving to an online venue, because it's ludicrous to try moving data and keeping applications up-to-date. You can put your head in the sand all you want and deny it, but that is the future. Check out SourceForge. You'll see that I'm right.
Besides, I only made a simple suggestion as to what I would like to see, just as other people did. I do not require ignorant responses. Take your childish flame-war elsewhere. Besides, I don't see how it hurts you for my opinion to be heard.
| QUOTE (KeyMasterOfGozer) |
| 1. Which is why I brought it up. |
Fine ... but hopefully, you'll see that the idea as such isn't too good. We'll see at the end ... *Warning this is going to be rather long ...
| QUOTE |
| 2. I was hoping that it would be implied by my suggestion of a Web-App |
Just because you refer to PHP and or MySQL that doesn't necessarily imply that you actually want a web based application. I have seen more than one person suggesting programming languages and systems totally unfit for their idea.
Since I'm not willing to speculate on your background knowledge in issues like that, I prefer asking ...
| QUOTE |
| 3. Web-Apps are useful for all sorts of communities. |
We're talking an application that is closer to a word processing program than to a forum ... Just because some sort of database is involved, that doesn't make it automatically a Web-App ...
| QUOTE |
| This Forum is such an example of a Web-App for an RPG community. |
... so your constant reference to this forum will not help us here, because we're talking a different application ...
| QUOTE |
| I think that many of the threads here would be enhanced if a user could put in a link to a character sheet, or item description. |
Which is something totally different to a character generator. All you'd need for that is a web compliant output of the chargen and possible some upload function to a board like this. Problem there: Different board architectures would need individual upload routines => It's better to have a specific upload function within a board software and simply do the upload of an html-output from the generator.
But this has nothing to do with a character generator as web based tool.
| QUOTE |
| These features are used all the time with 3rd party web-apps in computer gaming forums. |
And what has this to do with web based character generators?
| QUOTE |
| RPGs are hardly very different at all. Most MMORPGs have webbased character creators and character data displays via 3rd party Web-Apps. These are EXTENSIVELY used. |
Third party display of html-files or pictures is not what we're talking about. We're talking about the sense behind having a PHP / MySQL based character generator.
| QUOTE |
| Could you come up with cases where it would not be best, I'm sure. |
I'm pretty sure that a character generatormost definitely is not one of those good ideas. I'll come back to this further down the road.
| QUOTE |
| I can easily come up with cases where it would be best. |
You should come up with cases that involve a character generator, since that's what you're proposing here.
| QUOTE |
| Go rain on someone elses parade. If you don't want to use it, you don't have to. |
No need for getting defensive, o.k.? I'm trying to show you why your idea isn't really that good and I'm giving you reason from my own experience ...
| QUOTE |
| I will give you that, but it is a rarity these days for most people to use a PC without an internet connection, and you are DEAD WRONG that they would have to have a local copy. |
A rarity? I guess your refering to the american standards? Sorry to burst your bubble there, but this is an international community and most definitely not all users do have constant or cheap access to the internet. And you're more or less "dead" wrong when saying that I wouldn't need a local "copy" while not being online, if I actually want to use that program. Without access to the database, no use of the program.
| QUOTE |
| I once again point to this Forum, which is on the Internet, I use it everyday, and I don't have a copy of MySQL or PHP on this computer. |
And while you're not connected to the internet, you cannot access any data stored in the MySQL database of this server. But in order to use a theoretical newly designed character generator, you need access to the databases that contain gear, spells, skills, etc.
| QUOTE |
| But I can use it from here at work or at my house later, or both with not setup and no data to transfer. |
Humbug. Without connection to forum.dumpshock.com and the implicit connection to its MySQL database you're not going to see one single posting in this forum.
| QUOTE |
| That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. |
To me that only shows that you haven't actually thought about what I was telling you and rather resort to name calling while simultaniously accusing me of flaming ...
| QUOTE |
| Web Applications don't require and admin to keep the data up-to-date. |
No? I guess site admins are a waste of time then, just as moderators in forums?
| QUOTE |
| Everytime a user changes something and posts the form, the Data online is automatically updated. |
Very true, but not the point that I was aiming at.
It's not so much about the general possibility of adding something to the database. The real issues lie with deleting and "spamming" within the database.
| QUOTE |
| I have to point again to this very Forum, where myself and thousands of others fill out forms and post data that is instantly available to everyone else on the internet, and we all do it on some other admin's MySQL database for free. |
And yet you are not normally allowed to delete anything. Moderators have to intervene whenever someone spams (albeit the automatic post delay function) and of course the admin has to do regular updates to avoid problems with found vulnerabilities ... we're still talking the internet, aren't we?
| QUOTE |
| And this forum contains hordes more data than a char gen DB would. |
And this database provides you with far less privileges than a character generator would need to grant to its database in order to provide the functionality that e.g. NSRCG provides to the end user.
| QUOTE |
| LOL, that's because EVERY application is moving to an online venue, because it's ludicrous to try moving data and keeping applications up-to-date. |
I guess that's why I still don't have my office programs on the net?
In a (not too distant) future, where ultra broadband connections are availible for everyone, this might become true, but we're not quite there. And still then, local installations and files will still exist.
| QUOTE |
| You can put your head in the sand all you want and deny it, but that is the future. Check out SourceForge. You'll see that I'm right. |
I'm not putting my head into the sand, but you're getting inpolite without due reason. Checking out Sourceforge won't help me there ...
| QUOTE |
| Besides, I only made a simple suggestion as to what I would like to see, just as other people did. I do not require ignorant responses. |
Who's being ignorant here?
| QUOTE |
| Take your childish flame-war elsewhere. |
And who is flaming?
Sorry to say that: But you're the one who's abusing the TOE of this board right now, not me.
| QUOTE |
| Besides, I don't see how it hurts you for my opinion to be heard. |
But it hurts to hear mine?
Although I'm quite pissed right now, I'm still willing to give you some food for thought on your PHP / MySQL idea:
- Every group member of any single playing goup would have to use the same server, in order to have the same database.
- In order to organize a group, users (most likely) the GM would need the rights to create user groups within the database (something that is only allowed to the admins on this board )
- Each of these groups would require individual tables for their preferences and special gear tables for non-standard stuff. That's going to be one hell of a large number of tables ... regardless of the small amount of data within those tables. And although you claim that MySQL has "infinite" scalability, that's not quite true. Otherwise commercial product like Oracle would have gone bancrupt by now.
- You still need someone who's willing to put up with the f*ckers that'll constantly try to make a mess out of the database. And then there are "hickups" like this forum suffers from time to time these days that also have to be resolved.=> You need an admin who has the time to do exactly that.
- While the processing time for PHP tasks for this forums have a rather low server load, that will not be true for a server-based chargen, since parallel instances of running chargen objects will not just terminate within a few microseconds and then the task is over. They'll be running all the time during the character generation. I'm not willing to make any bets on dumpshock being able to serve that kind of load, when a serious number of users simultaniously decides to use the chargen. Putting some of the load onto the client as a solution to this? That brings us to the next point:
- While PHP and MySQL are quite good on server side: What's going to be your client side? PHP is not suited for that. A webbrowser (possibly with embedded javascript)? I hope you're aware that using normal web forms to create a character will be a pain in the ass, compared to the ease that programs like NSRCG provide.
Do you prefer JAVA-Applets that recreate a Userinterface like the one NSRCG provides? Or even a stand-alone client program coded in C or C++ (or even JAVA or .NET for the sake of portability)?
I guess normal HTML even enhanced with Javascript is immediatly out. JAVA-Applet: A pain in the ass to constantly (re-)load, and with an application as complex as a chargen that server load will not be lowered significantly. The main reason to even use Javascript or a Java-Applet is to reduce the server's load by handing the job of calculating and checking certain things to the client.
Once we're talking a full blown client program all that would be left for your server "program" is to establish the database connection to your MySQL database. Not much of difference to NSRCG that uses local Dat-files as database. The only question would be: Connection on demand or connection on program start (AFAIK NSRCG loads all database infos upon program start)? => Instead of planning with PHP / MySQL from scratch, such a connection can be implemented during any time of development if the idea really pulls through. I guess macmackie could do something like that right now, without larger problems. In such a scenario PHP and MySQL are mere "options", that depend on what the indivdiual hoster of such a database wants to or can provide . You could as well make direct connections to any known SQL-database. You could use PHP with access to dat-files like in NSRCG without MySQL as well.
And while it's quite possible to actually create a program with such features, I'm more than willing to bet that a majority of user would still prefer having a local database that they can change as they see fit without the need of being online or special user registration. Not to mention laptop users that are still far away from having constant wireless internet access.
My conclusion thus is: A web based database would be a nice feature, but that's all.
Btw. I'd love to hear other thoughts on that isse, since I even tried to implement something like that, but finally had to give it up due to most of the above reasons ...
| QUOTE (Cochise) |
But it hurts to hear mine? |
Yes, it does, when you attack my idea instead of proposing a different one. Take for instance, Spookymonster thought that writting in Java would be the way to go, and though I disagreed with him, I chose to propose a different way. I did not say
| QUOTE (Cochise) | ||
*lol* Sorry, unless you're talking server / client scenario and internet, that's a stupid suggestion. |
I admit that after I tried to explain myself in my second post and you chose to be impolite again, I was a bit nasty, but come on, how long do you expect me to sit back while you attack me.
| QUOTE (Cochise) |
-Every group member of any single playing goup would have to use the same server, in order to have the same database. -In order to organize a group, users (most likely) the GM would need the rights to create user groups within the database (something that is only allowed to the admins on this board ) |
Untrue. The GM only needs links to the Players' characters on whichever servers they choose to use. As I said before, this is common in MMORPGs, World of Warcraft has 3 that people use. For help and advice, someone might point people on the forums to anyone of them.
| QUOTE (Cochise) |
Each of these groups would require individual tables for their preferences and special gear tables for non-standard stuff. That's going to be one hell of a large number of tables ... regardless of the small amount of data within those tables. |
This too, is not the case. As does mcmackie with his program, the designer has to merely take this into account in the design. Specialty items could easily go into a common table with a key for the user or group.
| QUOTE (Cochise) |
And although you claim that MySQL has "infinite" scalability, that's not quite true. Otherwise commercial product like Oracle would have gone bancrupt by now. |
Time will tell on that, but Oracle has many other advantages over MySQL. I, in fact, have been an Oracle Developer for more than 10 years now, and I could write volumes on the subject. The one advantage that MySQL has over Oracle is it's simplicity. It does almost nothing, and therefore it's scalability is phenominal.
Oracle has many many features that MySQL does not. Foreign keys, full Standard SQL parsing (complex SQL will choke MySQL), Triggers, Procedure and packaging, Time of Failure recovery, dozens of indexing features including procedural, etc.
| QUOTE (Cochise) |
You still need someone who's willing to put up with the f*ckers that'll constantly try to make a mess out of the database. And then there are "hickups" like this forum suffers from time to time these days that also have to be resolved.=> You need an admin who has the time to do exactly that. |
I would be willing to do that. I would be willing to bet that the admins here at Dumpshock would be as well. If the program is halfway decent, it shouldn't add any real time to maintenance, sense the already have to do that for this program's database.
If you have started this type of project before, please let me know how far you got, what problems you had that stopped you, and how I can help. I have many years experience in this, and I'm willing to help you get it back on track.
| QUOTE (KeyMasterOfGozer) |
| Yes, it does, when you attack my idea instead of proposing a different one. |
You see: I didn't attack your idea at all
I said that unless you wanted something like that, the idea of PHP / MYSQL would be stupid. At that point I had no idea that you actually wanted something like that
Be honest: Would you describe it as a good idea if someone suggested PHP / MySQL for a stand-alone, local installation? Because that's the context of all suggestions that where made before that point and my comment was in relation to that.
| QUOTE | ||||
Take for instance, Spookymonster thought that writting in Java would be the way to go, and though I disagreed with him, I chose to propose a different way. I did not say
|
=> Look at this once more and ask yourself: Did I actually attack your idea or did I attack the idea of using PHP / MySQL in that context that had been discussed up to that point?
| QUOTE |
| I admit that after I tried to explain myself in my second post and you chose to be impolite again, I was a bit nasty, but come on, how long do you expect me to sit back while you attack me. |
I wasn't impolite after you tried to explain yourself
So my questions would be: Where did I actually attack you as person? Where did I actually attack your idea?
Attacking and questioning your idea are two differnt things ...
So I won't ask you to sit back, when someone actually gets personal, but in this case I wasn't even close to being "offensive" towards you or your idea.
| QUOTE |
| Untrue. The GM only needs links to the Players' characters on whichever servers they choose to use. |
Links to the finished characters. I'm talking about the generation as such.
There would be no gain in comparison to just handing him a finished character sheet produced with NSRCG, if he still had to go to each server and had to check the correctness of the character
| QUOTE |
| As I said before, this is common in MMORPGs, World of Warcraft has 3 that people use. |
That's a totally different approach: You cannot create WoW-characters "outside" the rules of the servers (unless you start hacking) => The ruleset is fixed for all players. We're talking a P&P roleplaying game, where individual groups have individual access to the various sourcebooks and individually alter rules and gear, as they see fit => The process of building a character is not the same, although they generally use the same rules (or parts thereof).
So in this point your WoW comparison simply fails.
| QUOTE |
| For help and advice, someone might point people on the forums to anyone of them. |
Which still has nothing to do with the character generator ...
I'm only talking about a character generator. No matter if it's server-based or not.
| QUOTE |
| This too, is not the case. |
I don't think that you're correct with that assertion ...
| QUOTE |
| As does mcmackie with his program, the designer has to merely take this into account in the design. |
So? You need a "options" table, right?
| QUOTE |
| Specialty items could easily go into a common table with a key for the user or group. |
... and that table would need to be availible for user and / or group. You just told me that something like that wouldn't be needed
Of course you could make all those fields part of just one major table called user, but that's not very efficient in terms of proper database modelling.
| QUOTE |
| Time will tell on that, but Oracle has many other advantages over MySQL. I, in fact, have been an Oracle Developer for more than 10 years now, and I could write volumes on the subject. The one advantage that MySQL has over Oracle is it's simplicity. It does almost nothing, and therefore it's scalability is phenominal. |
I guess we can leave that issue aside, since it has next to no impact on such a theoretical server-based chargen ... except maybe pricing
| QUOTE |
| I would be willing to do that. I would be willing to bet that the admins here at Dumpshock would be as well. |
Unlike forum moderation, something like that would be way harder to delegate and of course the job would be significantly harder as well.
| QUOTE |
| If the program is halfway decent, it shouldn't add any real time to maintenance, sense the already have to do that for this program's database. |
As I said in the previous post: We're talking a different level of user interaction with the database ...
| QUOTE |
| If you have started this type of project before, please let me know how far you got, what problems you had that stopped you, and how I can help. I have many years experience in this, and I'm willing to help you get it back on track. |
I trashed the whole project, once I got to the point where I had to acknowledge that a server-based chargen to my best knowledge and experience wouldn't provide the usability I'd expect from a character generator, unless the server's involvement would be reduced to mere database functions.
I am still considering the version with a (most likely) JAVA-based client program that does all necessary calculations on client side, but includes modules not only for local database access (most likely similar to the current NSRCG), but also for server-based databases (either directly or "tunneled" over a html-output of a webserver [where PHP could be used, as you suggested]).
The output would include html, possibly xml ... and including a module that also allows an upload to specified servers (or suited character databases) is something that could be debated, once the program runs and the output as such is satisfactory ...
Yet my time for actually programing something like that is rather restricted, since currently I'm putting more effort into getting myself a new job ... and even if that weren't the case, you'd better not expect to see me getting anywhere soon: Although I like computers, programing, etc. I'm not the "geek" type who spends all of his spare time on pet projects like that ...
to inject some realworldness into the fancy thought of always on connections and broadband, heres a dose of a lil thing called reality... My BEST connection is at 26.4. AT BEST. (and yes, i have a 56K modeom) where do i live? The middle of a desert? Timbuktu? nope, outside of Somerset,pa USA. Not only that, but the phone company has forsaken us and told us theres next to no chance of us getting DSL in the area, and if they even would, they would have to rip out and replace ALL of the phone lines in the area. As a side note to that, another local town just got put on touchtone dialing in the past 5 years.
The local cable company doesnt even OFFER internet service.
The only other option is satellite, which, for what it costs for instalation and use, really isnt worth it..
i can't wait to get a real job and get outa this place,
The local cable company doesnt even OFFER internet service.
The only other option is satellite, which, for what it costs for instalation and use, really isnt worth it..
i can't wait to get a real job and get outa this place,
| QUOTE (Aku) |
| to inject some realworldness into the fancy thought of always on connections and broadband, heres a dose of a lil thing called reality... My BEST connection is at 26.4. AT BEST. (and yes, i have a 56K modeom) where do i live? The middle of a desert? Timbuktu? nope, outside of Somerset,pa USA. Not only that, but the phone company has forsaken us and told us theres next to no chance of us getting DSL in the area, and if they even would, they would have to rip out and replace ALL of the phone lines in the area. As a side note to that, another local town just got put on touchtone dialing in the past 5 years. The local cable company doesnt even OFFER internet service. The only other option is satellite, which, for what it costs for instalation and use, really isnt worth it.. i can't wait to get a real job and get outa this place, |
Yes, actually, the US is BEHIND most other countries(read 1st world countries) in Ubiqutious broadband and even any internet connections.
Fortunately, time will make your unfortunate situation more and more rare.
That's awesome about the touch-tone. I've worked on several Telecom roll-outs. I had no idea places were THAT far out dated.
| QUOTE (Cochise) |
| I trashed the whole project, once I got to the point where I had to acknowledge that a server-based chargen to my best knowledge and experience wouldn't provide the usability I'd expect from a character generator, unless the server's involvement would be reduced to mere database functions. I am still considering the version with a (most likely) JAVA-based client program that does all necessary calculations on client side, but includes modules not only for local database access (most likely similar to the current NSRCG), but also for server-based databases (either directly or "tunneled" over a html-output of a webserver [where PHP could be used, as you suggested]). The output would include html, possibly xml ... and including a module that also allows an upload to specified servers (or suited character databases) is something that could be debated, once the program runs and the output as such is satisfactory ... |
Fair enough. I offer a compromise idea. Make a PHP/MySQL character sheet/ info display server that can take the char-sheet info from XML produced by and Char-gen app.
Then when time permits add the capability to edit info of the char on the PHP app. Then you have what I was intending to propose, and you can have your non-internet client to gen the char, and we are both happy.
| QUOTE |
Fortunately, time will make your unfortunate situation more and more rare. That's awesome about the touch-tone. I've worked on several Telecom roll-outs. I had no idea places were THAT far out dated. |
the problem is, the time to get there could be possibly, HUGE. verizon, our telephone company, , as i had said, has pretty much forsaken us. Even IF they wanted to start fixing it, monday, i would have to hazzard a guess it would take a few years (atleast) t get my area up to speed for DSL. They would have to rip out all of the phone lines (literally) since the max modem connection they can carry is 26.4K. They would have to set up their substations for the DSL, since the max distance it will travel is what? 2 miles, and then you're getting down to not so effective speeds. and we're about 15 miles from somerset,pa i'd wager, which is likely the closest town that MIGHT have DSL.
Cable would most likely be a similar problem, as i'm SURE they wouldnt have fiberoptic cables up here in the mountains, thought that might even be more problematic, as the lines are mostly buried in the ground, i think.
and it's only auesume if you're not one of the people having to use rottery phones
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.