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Oro
hell i could buy 5 and use my rolled starting funds to buy a knife.

my question is this...is it worth it to buy a level 3 contact at first level if i dont plan on being a face type character?

if youre gonna be stupid, you gotta be tough.

i better be tough
Kagetenshi
Well, first off there's no "First level", or any level at all.

As for the L3 contact, the answer is a resounding maybe. Usually not, but if it really fits with the character concept and you're going to use them to their fullest extent, they can be an excellent fallback.

~J
Glyph
It kind of depends. The starting resources don't always fit exactly with what you want for a character. For example, you might play a sammie type with A: Resources and only spend 800,000 or so on cyberware, gear, lifestyles, etc. So if you have 200,000 left, why not get a Level: 3 Contact? They may be overpriced, but they are still useful to have - especially the ones you are very dependent on, like fixers.

Heck, Level 3 contacts are even more important for non-faces... they don't make new friends as easily. biggrin.gif

In all seriousness, they are not usually worth it if you have other useful things to spend your starting resources on - Level 2 Contacts are nearly as good, and much less expensive. But if you have everything else bought and can afford it, I would go for it.
Oro
thats what im kinda worried about, i think im missing something. i had a million starting funds and didnt even spend half on stuff for a rigger/decker. there has to be something im missing, or maybe im just too stingy.

do you factor in the street index for stuff you buy at character creation?
Adam
No, you do not.
Kagetenshi
If you're a Rigger/Decker and you have any money whatsoever, IMO you are missing something. What that is, though, I can't really suggest without more information.

~J
Oro
then what am i missing!??

ARGGG!

9 droids, deck, programs, lifestyles all over the place, weapons for all droids, eccm, ecm, odd stuff thats not in the book:

such as:
bis snooper droids with spools of fiber-op cable so i could jack into PLTG's without actually being in the building/area
Kagetenshi
Do you have encryption?

~J
Arethusa
Well, for one, you might want to try some cyberware. I hear it can do pretty useful things.
Oro
en-what?

thats a no, i do now though, cheap stuff.
Necro Tech
you clearly don't have enough programs. And how heavily did you trick out your RC deck? and for that matter your cyber deck?
Kagetenshi
Remote-control network encryption is quite definitely not "cheap stuff". You'll want at least Rating 3, which is ¥15k for each of your drones plus each of your Remote Control decks. Rating 5 is also worth it, at ¥25k per, but higher is pretty much pointless until you're running milspec facilities regularly and even then isn't a must-have.

~J
Oro
ahh, words from the sages, thats why i am a "target" and you are an "immortal elf"

ok, encryption is done, 50k on programs, CMT Avater, hitcher jack, off-line storage, vidscreen display.
Oro
i really did go cheap on everything, ford americar with rigger add-ons was my most expensive buy.

i guess ill just go back and up-grade everything.
Necro Tech
list your programs and ratings. An average rating 6 program will cost 21,600. Some you get away with for 14,000 and the heavies cost 28,000. There is no real reason to buy a program at less than six except for limited money and there are no useless programs, just less useful ones.
Oro
my gm told me i cant play a decker, "theyre too powerful" was his reply to my "why not" so thats out. but as for programs i just put 50k in it and hoped someone at the game would help me out.

it seems thats where i goofed, stumbled, what-have-you.
Arethusa
QUOTE (Oro)
my gm told me i cant play a decker, "theyre too powerful" was his reply to my "why not" so thats out.

Has your GM fallen and hit his head? Did he fall and hit his head on something hard?
Oro
this was his reason:

"I don't allow deckers because they take all the game play from the others. When you are decking the others just sit there. AND...you can do too much stuff, you "break" the game."

and well, i dont think hes hit his head, ill ask him, it just might be so.

ive never seen him play a thinking character in any of my games so he might just be scared of what i can do with them...ill scare him with something else.

grins
Arethusa
That's a pretty far cry from "they're too powerful." They do stop the game while they do their thing, and the rules are nothing if not sadistically, torturously complex, which is what makes barring deckers (and, do a lesser degree, riggers) a popular choice for the less seasoned GMs. But they're not too powerful. That's something else entirely.
Oro
i never push a GM in ANY game, its just not a good idea, if i ask about a character concept and he even SEEMS a little put off by it ill drop it right there.

i run games much more than i play them and i know that i run a better game if im comfortable with every aspect of it. if i dont understand a portion ill either delete it or read up on it.
DrJest
Returning to the original topic, I sometimes buy level 3 contacts as best mates from a character's history, if i have the cash (which I usually don't, sadly). Since I solo a lot these days, some well-rounded NPC's in areas I have no skill for are a big boon to my GM, who is new to the Shadowrun thing anyway. My favourite to date is Molly B. Damned, a Mexican (not Aztlaner, never Aztlaner) rigger who has been friend, partner and occasional lover, and who is a neverending source of adventure hooks concerning Aztlan and the rebellion smile.gif Or maybe it's Silke, one of the older Otaku who -in the hands of my GM - turned out to have a Noel Coward fixation... heh...
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Arethusa)
That's a pretty far cry from "they're too powerful." They do stop the game while they do their thing, and the rules are nothing if not sadistically, torturously complex, which is what makes barring deckers (and, do a lesser degree, riggers) a popular choice for the less seasoned GMs. But they're not too powerful. That's something else entirely.

Then the rules are nothing. Really, unless one side or the other goes crazy with options, frames, agents, etc. etc. etc., decking is neither prolonged nor difficult.

Hm. Correction: providing that the player exercises some common sense in decking. If they stick around to fight every last piece of IC that shows up until the system goes down, you could be there for a while.

~J
Canid13
Erm correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Level 3 contacts cost like 500k?
Oro
like is right, but not too right....

200k
Canid13
Only 200k?? Hmm.....

Cool, thanks.
Kagetenshi
Given that you can only buy contacts at chargen, ¥500k would just be ridiculous. When you can choose between a friend for life and an alpha VCR 3 for not too much difference in price…

~J
JongWK
Buy a Level 3 Decker. Problem solved. wink.gif
Jrayjoker
I think the power of the campaign should govern the level of utilities that Oro uses. I personally like to start out my players with just-in-town-and-starting-fresh, or young-and-newby characters. That way it makes more sense that they have a friend for life and lower level ware and warez.
Oro
ONLY 200K!?!?!?

sheesh
draco aardvark
You know, I think that the level 3 contact isn't for faces. When I made my 2 faces I gave 'em 20 level 2 contacts instead of a level 3, much more useful for a face.

Now, if you're looking for a mentor - that's perfect for a level 3. Someone who will stick their neck out for you, someone who will do whatever they can to help.

Here's an interesting idea for a level 3: a Lonestar officer. He has you go after the bad-guys that he doesn't have the evidence to jail, in return he has a little 'chat' with the forensic pathologists when he gets to the crime scene. If your GM is initially hesitant, explain it thusly: plenty of adventure hooks, one of the players knows waaay more than the others about 'Mr. Johnson' (sure to lead to inter-group intrigue).
Kagetenshi
Although hardly a Level 3 Contact or even a friend, the cop in Kite is a good example of that sort of person in action.

~J
Cain
A Level 3 Gang Boss can simulate you being a "lieutenant" in the group. This sort-of replaces the gang/tribe option from SR1 and 2; instead of being able to call a bunch of Yakuza in on your own, you call your contact.
Jrayjoker
Yeah, there are benfits and penalties to having soomeone that will do anything for you. You kind of have to have a reciprocal relationship in my book. A lot of level 2s for a face makes a lot more sense than 1 level 3.

As a face, I could see them as someone who knows a lot of people and makes you feel like their best friend while you are there, but doesn't remember your name the next day.
Lindt
However, remember that the most dangerous is a L2. While a level one might honestly know you, and a L3 will take abuse, a L2 isnt loyal enough to stand up to goons with guns, and knows enough to be dangerous.
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