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Crimson Jack
Is it about time for a new Grimoire to come out? One that will compile info from other sourcebooks, or are all new magical ideas going to be published in the SOTA books? I'm keen on having all the info in one big book of mojo.
Jrayjoker
Yeah, I' d like to see a compilation come out for a lot of things. Having anywhere for 3-6 books out to figure out one skill roll and effect is perhaps my biggest complaint with SR right now. Maybe a PDF only title would be the best way to go.
Johnny Reb
Careful now. Such talk leads to 4th edition.

-- Johnny Reb
Club
SR3 Main book. MiTS. SOTA:64. MAYBE SR:C What else do you need for Magic?


Edit: the Metamagic in SOTA:63
Crimson Jack
There's stuff scattered about in T:AL and SoE, plust T:WL's spells. I dunno, just would be nice to have it all compiled. Seems like a good place to add the next volley of new spells, metamagic, and magical advances.
TechnoDruid
Yeah, the key reason I dug through all those aforementioned books and threw all that stuff in Excel. Did one for the Metamagic Techs, too. Planning on getting around to dumping all that adept stuff on a spreadsheet, if I ever get the time... Does make for quicker (if SR can be quick) game glancing at a packet of sheets instead of a stack of books.
Adarael
QUOTE
Careful now. Such talk leads to 4th edition.


Beware the Dark Side. Questions lead to confusion. Confusion leads revision. Along that path lies the Dark Side. True Jedi 4th editions do not need.
Synner
No need for a new book, what we really need is a global index.
hobgoblin
heh, maybe we should get it community based? wiki powerd maybe?

hell, lets integrate it with ancient history's work and create a gigantic online refence site...

hmm, i recall something like that allready existing but at the moment collecting dust in some corner of dumpshock...
Jérémie
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Jan 10 2005, 12:43 PM)
heh, maybe we should get it community based? wiki powerd maybe?
hobgoblin
heh, dumpshock hides a lot of things wink.gif
Jérémie
QUOTE (Synner)
No need for a new book, what we really need is a global index.

Amen.
Westiex
QUOTE
No need for a new book, what we really need is a global index.
QUOTE
I used to keep a list of all equipment from all Shadowrun books. FASA has asked me not to distribute this list any longer, as they feel it violates their copyright. I disagree that it violates their copyright, as I do not feel such a list would impact their sales in the slightest, but my opinion on the matter is not the important one. Since they asked, and did so very understandingly, I no longer maintain this file for the internet. In addition, I have gone a step further and asked that any site that carries the file remove it permanently.


I think the first step would be to first see if Fan Pro would object to the distrubution of such a list.
Crimson Jack
New book. Global Index. Whatever. I hate having to lug around as many books as I do to run a game for my players. I suppose the exercise doesn't hurt, but c'mon. wink.gif
Bigity
I like new books that consilidate information from several books into one, but I guess that's not so hot from a sales point of view.

Jrayjoker
I can't see FanPro opposing an online wikipedia version of an all inclusive index. All it would do is point people to the book they need for any given topic. Heck it might even help their sales.
Adam
I would totally be for some sort of community-maintained global index ... I don't think it's strictly within the Sixth World Wiki's vision, but I see no good reason not to start working on it over there, and it could always be ported over to a different Wiki should there be enough interest.

[Edit: side note - Sixth World Wiki is intended to be a 100% canon reference ... so no references to, for example, The Ancient's Files, The Shadowrun Supplemental, etc.]
U_Fester
QUOTE (Johnny Reb)
Careful now. Such talk leads to 4th edition.

-- Johnny Reb

Let's not, I can't afford the 4th Edition. I am just now finishing up buying all of the 3rd Edition books.
Grimtooth
Just wait a couple of months until McMackie finishes up adding stuff to NSRCG. He has all the titles and such but allows for the assumption that you own the books.

Canid13
Can we get a new cyberware/bioware book as well? Not so much new out there hence it being harder to find spread across about 5 books... and it'll allow for revision of the ever-so-sucky cyberlimb rules.
Johnny Reb
QUOTE (Canid13)
Can we get a new cyberware/bioware book as well? Not so much new out there hence it being harder to find spread across about 5 books... and it'll allow for revision of the ever-so-sucky cyberlimb rules.

Now that, I can get behind, if only for insertion into a SOTA book.

I need to dig up the file I had on this, recasting the entire project as logically (And simply!) as possible. Teh key was that Cyberlimbs were a bit more essence friendly (Not scads, but a tad) and were slashed in price to cost less than a cloned limb.

A full Cyberarm, for example, cost Y8000 if Chrome, Y10,000 if fleshy, and set you back 0.8 Essence, rather than 1.0

The reason for such a huge price drop was competition. The technoogy wasn't a big deal, but, at the time, if you wanted a new arm, you went cyber or went without. In the 50's, Chrome was King, and like any fashionable trend, a premium was added onto teh true cost as well, driving prices even higher. In the early 60's, however, fashion moved on and the CYber industry crashed, hard. Oh, there was still a shadow market for faster and better reflexes, but muscle replacement was replaced by Bioware versions and Cyberlimb work dropped over 95% in two years.

Knocked several companies out of business and shook up the major players.


(Ahh, found teh file. Here's a snippet.)

Cyberlimbs

You know, it wasn’t very long ago when Chrome was King. Back in the day, if it was shiny and cool, it was obviously better than anything else. Back in the fifties and, really, into the early sixties, this remained true. As we all know far too well, demand leads to an increase in price on the simple ground of greater profit or price gouging. For a long time, this was true on Cyberlimbs as well.

Not any more.

These days, with biological replacements being the norm and King Chrome having been dethroned by matte black, the Cyberlimb industry has absolutely crashed. With the industry hemoraging and backers bailing, the industry did the unthinkable; it dropped the price. These days, a new arm made of steel costs half what a flesh and blood one would, is less-invasiove than in previous years and, best of all, has more options than at any time in memory. We’ve entered a Golden Age of Cyberlimbs, and I, for one, am happy to be a part of it.

So, who do I see about an arm?

The Cyberlimb market is much, much smaller than it used to be, despite being primed for a new revolution. Only a few of the triple-A corporations are left, leaving the field to smaller industries once the profit margin vanished.

DocWagon, of all people, pushed into the lead in this area; their goal of bringing the costs down to a reasonable level was a huge push and the no-frills limbs that they offered retook the world by storm. Their work might be simplistic, but it’s rugged and affordable. That’s mass-market appeal and turned them into, at least temporarily, a market leader.

Yamatetsu still reigns as the king in general cybertech, but took the most damage from the loss of limbs from their catalogue. They handle all aspects of cybertech, rather than focusing on one, and were positively glacial in their updating of prices and features. They’re still on top in general but they’ve fallen from the top in cyberlimbs.

Aztechnology has moved into third place, using their immense marketing machine to start pushing brand-name labels again. It seems a bit unusual at first, but they really lead the charge not in pricing but in essence ... modern cyberlimbs aren’t as disruptive as before on the body’s matrix. They’re not exactly friendly, but the reduction is obvious.

Renraku is the last of the heavy hitters in limbwork, having quite a bit of success in their Rigging and Drone work to understand the proper interface ability of man and machine. They tend to lean harder into other areas, naturally, but their robotics alone spits off enough sub-research to keep them in as a major player.

As for actual techy-bits, keep in mind that the text on this next part is something of a place-holder. I don't like repeating it so many times.

Cyber hand

A simple cybernetic replacement hand, the cyber hand comes in both a realistic and ‘chrome’ format. The former is easier to conceal, of course, while the latter has more storage space. The realistic hand can hold up to .10 Essence in appropriate cyberware while the chrome holds .20.

Cyber Forearm

Some cyber-forearms include the elbow, others do not. Regardless of the joint’s natural or replacement form, it again comes in both a realistic or ‘Chrome’ format. A cyber forearm includes a hand as part of the cost and can hold .20 essence in additional cyber if natural, .40 if chrome.

Cyber Arm

An entirely replaced arm, including shoulder replacement and some chest rebuilding for an anchor, the Cyber Arm comes in realistic and chrome forms and, of course, includes both a cyber forearm and cyberhand in the cost. A cyberarm can hold .30 essence if realistic, .60 if chrome.

Cyber Foot

A simple cybernetic replacement foot, the cyber foot comes in both a realistic and chrome version. The former is easier to conceal while the latter has more storage space. The realistic foot can hold up to .10 essence in appropriate cybernetics, while the chrome can hold .20.

Cyber Shin

The Cyber Shin may, or may not, include a replacement knee. The cyber shin comes in natural and chrome forms, with the first holding .20 essence worth of cyber while the chrome can contain .40

Cyber Leg

A replacement of the entire leg, the Cyber leg includes some hip replacement and additional strengthing of connective tissues. The natural form may contain up to .30 essence in additional cybernetics while the chrome version may hold .60 essence in cybernetics.

Cyber Torso

A replacement of the rib cage, spine, and lower torso, the Cyber Torso is one of the most radical transformations possible today. It comes in both a realistic form and a chrome, with the former holding up to .60 essence in appropriate cyberware while the chrome version holds 1.20 essence.

Cyber Skull

As with the others, the Cyber Skull may be purchased in a natural or chrome version. The natural holds up to .40 essence in cyberware while the chrome contains up to .80 essence.

Modular Hand

This option may be added to any Cyber Forearm or Cyber Arm, allowing the hand to be removed and replaced with an other cybernetic device of .25 Essence or less. Different hands, weapons, electric devices ... there’s virtually no limit to what can be turned into a modular ‘hand’.

Modular Foot

Far less common, the modular foot does exist, allowing the exchanging of a foot from any Cyber Shin or Cyber Leg that has the modular port installed.

Yametetsu Digi-Tools

The hottest product from Yametetsu’s cyber labs, the Digi-Tools are finger attachments for Cyberhands, allowing them to double as tool kits on the run! Options range as wide as flashlights and lighters to microlasers and Datajack ports. Don’t be the last on your block to embrace the new fashion! Digi-Tools ... today!

Digi-Tools Tool Kit

Any Kit can be purchased as a Digi-Tool. Any kit purchased in this way costs twice the standard cost of such a kit and has an essence cost of .20 essence. They are otherwise identical.

Digi-Tools Flashlight

The standard DigiTools Flashlight is akin to a pen light, providing light up to ten meters. The Digi-Tools Owlsight instead shines an ultraviolet light which cannot be seen aside from those with Ultraviolet detectors. The Owlsight also has a 10 meter range.

Digi-Tools Lighter

The standard Digi-Tools Lighter is an electric induction that has the same power as an automotive cigarette lighter. The Zip-o-Flip is a chemical lighter that requires periodic refills at 1Y each.

Digi-Tools Snips

Taking up two fingers, rather than the standard Digi-Tool one, Digi-Tool Snips act as powerful wire cuters or scissors. The blades are retractable, but aren’t usable in resistable combat.

Digi-Tools Squirt

The DigiSquirt holds a single dose of any one chemical which may be sprayed at up to arm’s length away. Mace is the most common, but any chemical can be used. All chems sold separate.

Digi-Tools Datajack

A simple datajack plug, the Digi-Tools Datajack includes a one meter connection cord on a retractable winch. Note that additional gear is required to link the Datajack to other cybernetics that need interaction. See routers, below.

Digi-Tools Monofiliment Whip

Ahh, the classics never die. An internal spool to keep one end anchored, the other is attached to the fingertip of the Digi-Tool. Tiwtsing the fingertip allows the whip to be uncoiled for use.


Digi-Tools Taser

Taking up two separate fingers, the Digi-Tools Taser has a range of ten meters and contains a capacitor with a single use. Recharging takes ten minutes at any standard outlet.

Digi-Tools Dart

A simple dart-launching mechanism is installed, giving the Digi-Tools Dart an effective range of ten meters. The dart itself is largely harmless but may be filled with a chemical (Sold seperately).

Digi-Tools Laser

A low wattage microlaser, the Digi-Tools Laser is ineffective at cutting steel but serves quite well as a spotting device, markerlight, or cat toy. Eye exposure is not recommended in any way.

There's lots more, and as you can see, I haven't really hammered out prices or hardnfast game rules, yet. More an excercise, really. But, it shows what I was working towards.

I'm also far too proud of the term 'Digi-tools' for a name brand. Go on, say it out loud. Digi-tools. Catch that second meaning? Keen!

-- johnny Reb
Johnny Reb
Note that pre-testing is starting to show the storage levels of a limb might be twice what it should be. I went with the .2 level for a hand on the thought that it would exactly hold four digi-tools, but, some of my testers started eyeballing what they could do with Delta grade (Look! We can hold more than it cost! woo, bonus!)

Now, that's already done with Syber-Eyes, so maybe it isn't a problem, I don't know.

But it set off lil' warning bells.

-- Johnny Reb, playbalancer.
Crimson Jack
Yeah, what he said. wink.gif

Hell, even just a "revised" edition would be cool. Rigger 3 got it.
Pistons
QUOTE (Crimson Jack)
Hell, even just a "revised" edition would be cool. Rigger 3 got it.

That's because when Rigger 3 was put out originally, it was rushed through production to be the last book FASA would publish. It didn't get as thorough an editing and vetting that it needed, not to mention some of the calculations were done wrong. The revised version cleaned it all up.
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