Shadowrun by far has been the best rpg I have ever played, the variety of character creation is awesome!! But I have now started down the road Deckers. I am sick and tired of missing out on Karma because the group has no decker support to find information. So I am putting down the gun, allowing my ally spirit to go free and getting of the hunted list with my shapeshifter.

I now come to a cross roads Cyber decker vs. Otaku. I have read the bonuses and negatives for both yet still I am stumped. Where to start? should I create a deck or buy a prefab.

If otaku what are the neccessities when starting out?

Any input would be great.

I'd start with a combat decker until the GM and you can integrate the two worlds with ease. This allows you to be useful all the time as well.

Otaku rule [in] the Matrix, but the champaign really needs to be made with them in mind.

they don't even rule all that much inside the Matrix, until you pump quite a bit of karma into them. they rock decker panties at cybercombat, but deckers tend to be better at actual decking--hacking cameras, getting data, etcetera. comparing deckers to street sams and otaku to adepts is not unreasonable; deckers can often be jacks-of-all-trades, Matrix-wise, while otaku tend to need to specialize quite a lot, especially starting out.

I agree I am definitely leaning towards a combat decker, I am now considering building a deck vs. prefab deck. SO MUCH INFO .........................

One major benefit to Otaku over Deckers: they're much, much easier for a player new to the Matrix rules. Much of the cross-referencing of correct utility for the task and reordering your persona attributes is eliminated.

And I disagree that Otaku aren't as good as Deckers inside the Matrix. In my experience, while the 3/3/4/5/6 limitation definitely puts a damper on the variety of things an Otaku can use, their typically higher Masking and other benefits allow them to accomplish a certain variety of task with great effectiveness. If you're feeling munchy and make a Validate Otaku, well, you're right up there with the Deckers, only more upgradable.

~J

to a point. i can usually make a better ghost-type decker than i can an otaku, though, especially starting out. that +1 DF is nice, but the decker can often make up for it by simply allocating his much larger hacking pool. a decker has easier access to different connection types, as well--most otaku can't even afford the equipment, starting out, so it's hard to justify giving them the necessary complex forms unless you work it into your story (which isn't hard, but it's one more step than a decker has to worry about).

they're roughly equal, i guess; you just have to build them with different paradigms in mind to accomplish the same goals.

An Otaku has that much more hacking pool to deal with due to higher MPCP and Intelligence, usually, and can get a Math SPU fairly early on. I'd also question the difficulty explaining complex forms for connection types. That being said, it more or less all balances out.

~J

I dunno, mfb. When I've made otaku, I've always pumped the all-important Computer skill to an 8. That alone makes them better than a starting decker, although the other limits do balance them somewhat in the matrix.

I generally number-crunch otaku into matrix gods, but completely useless in normal space. I prefer deckers for their flexibility, but I think otaku do specialise better for the matrix.

How do you start with an 8 in computers again?

By the fact that the rules for Otaku state that their Computers skill must start between 6 and 8.

~J

With the normal Attribute 6 limits lifted for mental stats for Otaku and Computer Skill at 8, the Otakus I've made are usually better than deckers in the Matrix. Especially if you enforce the Rating 6 rule for deckers, strictly speaking, that could limit the decker to a MPCP 6 deck.

otaku get more dice, cain, but deckers have an easier time getting lower TNs; programs can be purchased, whereas otaku have to raise their TN-lowering channels with time and karma. lower TNs trump extra dice just about every time, even with the lower MPCP and persona programs (which generally come into play only during cybercombat anyway).

Yeah, but as an Otaku you will never get busted for illegal hacking utilities. You never have to worry about SOTA. You are never without your deck. In fact once you get a little older you look like any other wage-slave. Everything balances out eventually. Otaku start slow and gain rapidly meanwhile Deckers start big and gain pretty slowly. Much like the Adept/Samurai split.

er, well. once you get old enough to look like a wageslave, you're old enough to have to worry about fading.

Obviously you haven't met some of the 16 year olds I have. Some of them pass for 30 year olds. I don't imagine living on the street would help soften your looks or keep that innocent air about you. So it would not be out of line for a 16 year old to pass for wage slave. As for Fading the karma you have to put into offsetting that is still well below the hassle of SOTA for deckers. That is of course if your GM uses either. (I know I don't.)

i don't need to know about your history as a pedophile !! regardless, unless the otaku took some sort of custom edge (suggested name: "S/He's How Old!?"), i wouldn't let most otaku pass for more than two years older than they actually are. and, come to think, not even that much, if they went the route of having all their physical stats at 1. being weak and sickly doesn't often make you look older, when you're a kid.

also, you can't offset the fading with karma--and you can also no longer submerge. now, granted, the test to avoid fading isnt' all that strenuous until about age 30 or so.

I don't know about you, but I tend to have ten karma on hand more frequently than I have 29,000 to burn on each and every program covered by a given channel that I use regularly. The lower-TNs is a point for the Otaku, especially for technoshamans.

~J

remind me to play in your games. i never have enough karma, even for my low-karma-use characters. money, on the other hand, is something most competent deckers should have coming out of their ears. put together an agent, get a self-coding suite, and have your agent crank out programs for sale (and use). do paydata runs once in a while.

and, more to the point, how many programs do most deckers need? you don't need every program, just a select few. the thing is, those select few are spread out over all five subsystems, which hurts otaku.

That's what specialization is for. Furthermore, an Otaku can write programs with greater ease and effectiveness, so if you’re going to count that as a factor the Otaku can just become a decker in a month or two. Our group quashes the program sales on the grounds that since Deckers still run the shadows for other than ideological reasons, selling the programs must not work for some reason.

~J

specialization is nice, but it doesn't make you better than a decker if your base channel is 3 or 4. a decker can be 100% pure awesome with six or seven rating 6 programs; an otaku can't match or beat that in more than two channels.

most deckers don't have the programming specialization or patience to make a living doing programming. most of them, however, should be able to scrape by well enough to supplement their running income better than a street sam could.

Wonders if you can be a pedophile when you were 12.

But seriously, as with all things it depends on how complicated you want it to be. If you and your DM are new to the Matrix rules I actually suggest the Otaku. or if you want to be useful outside the Matrix the Combat Decker, but for the love of diodes change the race to Dwarf if you are going to use the archetype.

Wonders if you can be a pedophile when you were 12.

But seriously, as with all things it depends on how complicated you want it to be. If you and your DM are new to the Matrix rules I actually suggest the Otaku. or if you want to be useful outside the Matrix the Combat Decker, but for the love of diodes change the race to Dwarf if you are going to use the archetype.

News flash you don't have to take all ones and you determine if the character is antisocial. So if it is your PC she might have a fetish for Emily Post and have perfect manners. If she is not one of the rare kids with severe problems she can pass for normal with a little work. Much better that that jacked up street samurai.

eh, i dunno. a 'normal' otaku is possible, sure, but it's going to be the exception to the rule. most otaku are street kids who've had to fight for everything they've got. most otaku are not suave sophisticates who act older than their age.

While they are certainly more specialized at the beginning, Otaku rise quickly. At least six karma should usually be attained after two non-milk runs, allowing the shoring up of the weak Channels quite quickly; a math SPU is cheap and will put the Otaku's hacking pool back above the Decker's. I can't do much more without going into specifics, and my books are at home, but anything but the most spread-out of Deckers is going to be matchable by an Otaku.

~J

er? six karma won't be enough to shore up more than one channel, if that. channels are raised like skills.

Right, one channel. I typically find six karma is closer to one run, personally, and that 30k of profit for one character is a spectacular quantity for a single run; maybe it's different for you.

Pardon the slow responses, I'm glued to reports of the MacWorld keynote.

~J

oh, okay. i thought you meant that two non-milk runs would be enough to shore up all your channels. and, also, remember that a decker doesn't have to put any karma into their TN-reducing stuff (programs, in other words), which means they've got that much more karma to pump into their Computer skill. a really dedicated decker--one that dumps as much of his karma into decking as an otaku does--will probably end up with a much higher Computer skill than the otaku has. and since the decker can raise his persona attributes with cash, rather than having to spend karma, he can raise those at the same time.

i guess it sounds like i'm arguing that deckers are more powerful than otaku. i don't feel that way, really; it's just that otaku and deckers, despite doing the same job, are really, really different in how they're built and how they develop.

i dont know about the law where mfb comes from but here in norway the legal age for haveing sex is 16. and if the partner is about the same age (give or take aboyt 5 years i guess) the pedophile stamp is far of, its mostly used on people (mostly men it seems btw) that is atleast 30 and going for kids that are pre-teen.

and im at times surprised how old some kids around the age of 16 can act and look.

and net kids these days are more hypersocial then antisocial, and some have a innate ability for fast talk and similar. i have a friend thats 18 now but when he was 15-16 was talking about how people belived he was about 20.

age have nothing to say about matureity, what realy have a say about that is the people and enviroment that the person is used to interact with. and never forget that girls seems to mature earlyer then boys...

and one comment, to learn how decking works, roll up a random host or 3 and roll up a decker, grab a stock deck (dont worry about custom ones until you know how the decking rules work) and do some dry runs on your own just to practice the rules.

Huh?

Which I agree with, but it is a time-honored tradition on Dumpshock to take two positions that vary only in the slightest and fight to the death over them. Take a look at some of my arguments with Doc Funk.

Hm... sound like any country's politics we know of? // end aside

Though I do have to mention that most deckers will have an INT max of 7 or so, 9 with bioware augmentation, while an Otaku can hit 11, 9 out of the gate. That changes the costs for upping Computers dramatically.

~J

it varies from state to state, but the average age of consent in the US is 18. we're prudes. net kids maybe be hypersocial online, but that doesn't necessarily translate into real-world social skills--and even then, good real-world social skills won't help you if your age is 16 but your body looks 12.

expect the unexpected...

Perhaps the biggest irony is that otaku start with a higher charisma than the average decker. That means they're a lot more sophisticated than the avergae joe, and far above the average teenager.

Their non-Street or -Matrix Etiquette is capped at 4, so it's clear that that isn't suaveness or sophistication. They just have that much more raw force of personality.

~J

It makes sense that their charisma is projected into their persona in the matrix. The force of personality is required I guess. To me it feels right.

Development aside a decker can simply out power an otaku by cash. No Otaku can have an MPCP 15. Try and get all your chanels to 10+. Skill for skill they remain about equal but efectiveness goes to the decker with massive resources or time. Also, after 100 karma you have a damn fine Otaku. But thats it. A decker can branch out into many other fields with the same Karma.

As an aside, what does an Otaku's hacking pool top out at? Realisticly.

Otakus are at once more versatile and more specialised in the Matrix. Consider that they'd have the equivalent of ALL operational utilities at 3 at the least and Computer at 8, I'll say that Otakus have the edge over deckers in the Matrix. Also, while the otaku's etiquette skill is limited, their Cha confers a TN bonus and we all know that in SR's skill system TN bonuses are usually better than a skill bonus.

No otaku can have a MPCP of 15? Are you kidding? (Usual) Base Intelligence for Otaku = 9

Max Intelligence for Otaku = 14 (your decker has a max Intelligence of 11, btw)

Maximum MPCP = 28

And being a kid will confer negative penalties in most cases outside the Matrix as well, so that's not a great bonus.

Not in Canon, K10.

And to go really high end your stats suffer badly. I have yet to see anyone live who went the 9/1 route. Unless you play the stay at home hacker type. Not so much of a problem then. Plus Otaku maxed out the creep-o-meter after Renraku went down. The trust scale tanked when people found out you cant tell a disciple from your garden variety computer freak.

All rules aside,

Having to deal with being a kid in a Shadowrunner's world from an RP perspective is a nightmare.

Ah, damnit...the latest victim of the double post.

The only GM mod in the example(for Negotiations) is the supporting evidence one. The other 3 are in the Social Mods table.

However, even if you do apply a Prejudice/Bias against Otakus (because I just don't see someone being Prejudice against kids) in MJLBB, I'd allow the Cha test in SR3 for offsetting Racism (or Bias in this case, since the Prejudice/Bias rules are expansion/substitution for Racism). Which the otakus should have less problems succeeding.