Perssek
Jan 12 2005, 08:37 AM
Hello, everybody.
Itīs been a long time since I had to write long sentences in english (Iīm a brazilian gamer), but I hope you wonīt have to make great efforts to understand me.
So. Shadowrun, 2nd Ed. was released here in Brazil around 1995, with the core rulebook, the Street Samurai Catalog (revised for 2nd edition) and an adventure, DNA/DOA. Thatīs about it. Since then, the publisher didnīt bother to release any more Shadowrun books, concentrating in their Lord of the Rings Line.
Well, it didnīt bothered my gaming group, so we played several Shadowrun adventures and later, it faded and we went to play something else, because there wasnīt ANYTHING concerning Shadowrun that we could acquire, even through Amazon.com, since the dollar interchange rate was so frightening for my pocket at the time.
About an year ago, I found several used books (2st ed.) at Amazon, com, and made contact with a guy in England and another in Germany who were willing to sell their old Shadorun books. I ended with a LOT of material, sourcebooks, adventures, I guess itīs about 40 books (Iīm too lazy to glance a look at the bookshlef at my right - wait a minute... itīs 48 books, and US$ 200,00 less in my pocket, plus freight).
Then I quit at the campaign we were playing at the time (a doomed Conspiracy X madhouse) and started planning a new campaign. The thing is, Iīd like to tweak with some things in the Sixth World, and insert some elements that I would like to see there, and that would be almost canon (IMNSHO).
So, werewolves. Just like in World of Darknessī Werewolf: The Apocalypse. But no tribes, no super-duper especial magic-powered weaponry and powers. Just a werewolf, his pack of friends and some innate powers, and their natural shamanic abilities. They almost like shapeshifters, except they have three (countīem!) forms, being one intermediary between wolf and man and the power to go to the astral plane through mirrored surfaces (thatīs right! They TELEPORT their physical bodies to the Astral).
Did anybody in the forum ever gave a thought on something like this?
Petras Furtado
Petrasfurtado@uol.com.br
Chance359
Jan 12 2005, 08:55 AM
I like the three forms idea, but not sure if the mirrored surfaces part isn't too powerful.
hyzmarca
Jan 12 2005, 09:53 AM
Netherwalking, it is canon ability from ED and there may be evidence that some IEs have access to the power. But, for anyhting less than an ubber NPC it is a little much.
In my opinion, the best way to weaken it is simple, the physical body can't move through solid objects on astral and uses physical initiative.
Astral Spirit with Astral Initiative VS Netherwalking Werewolf with physical initiative = one dead wolf.
toturi
Jan 12 2005, 10:01 AM
I'd combine it with a Totem Avatar. Using the Avatar to open an Astral Gateway, to travel straight to your destination through the metaplanes, no Astral travel, hence no Astral recon. You may still be waylaid on the metaplanes.
Striker
Jan 12 2005, 10:10 AM
1.) Teleportation in the SR/ED setting is limited to near-godlike creatures. Some beings are rumored to have the ability to physically travel to the metaplanes and back. As such, the umbra shift ability is a bit out of line.
2.) That said, WoD werewolves would make sense as a type of free spirit with certain limitations.
hyzmarca
Jan 12 2005, 06:32 PM
QUOTE (Striker) |
1.) Teleportation in the SR/ED setting is limited to near-godlike creatures. Some beings are rumored to have the ability to physically travel to the metaplanes and back. As such, the umbra shift ability is a bit out of line.
2.) That said, WoD werewolves would make sense as a type of free spirit with certain limitations. |
Just one nitpick, physical telepotation in SR is limited to near Godlike creatures. Even the weakest spirit can move instantly through the metaplanes, however.
In ED, on the other hand, there are several mid level teleportation spells. ED Illusionists can teleport, although it requires preperation and can be resisted as an illusion.
hyzmarca
Jan 12 2005, 06:33 PM
Arg---Double post.
Perssek
Jan 13 2005, 04:47 AM
Hey, guys;
First of all, thanks for the help. Iīm very grateful for that. Having old-time Shadowrun gamers backing me up makes me feel more comfortable when deciding on how this werething is going to be.
So.
Netherwalking? ED? Oh, I got it, itīs from EarthDawn, right? (of course it is!) <bangs head at the keyboard> Well, I donīt have ANYTHING on ED (a pity), but I know something about. Anyway, as I donīt have any material to research on, letīs stick to good olīSR rules.
Totem Avatars... There is something about it in Grimoire 2nd Edition? Iīll take a look.
Anyway... Iīm making these werewolves as a starting NPC species, but I want to my PCs to use in the future (my gamesīmortality rates tend to be somewhat high), so I want something powerful, but balanced. Like a troll. Big and strong, but stupid. Well, thatīs a simple example, (and makes no justice to trolls everywhere, but you know what I mean).
Hereīs the main guidelines:
1. They have three forms: human, wolf (big one) and intermediary ("crinos"). The human shape has SOME of the powers, but mostly, they are locked in the wolf and crinos forms. What should the statistics be? Iīd use the shapeshifter wolf form, but what about the human and "crinos" forms?
2. They are invulnerable no normal damage, being hurt only by weapon foci, mana magic and silver-made and/or silver-coated weapons. They can also regenerate the damage (except by the aforementioned rules).
3. In "crinos" form, they can use a form of the fear power, but limited to the ones who can see him AND hear the howl he bursts to use this power. They also have fangs, claws, faster movement rates, enhanced physical attributes, and so on.
4. They are ALL shamans, under the (to me, obviously) wolf totem. They are NOT shapeshifters. They are ANOTHER meta-especies that was born from humans (as the other meta-humans) and are plagued from their teens by visions and omens of their past, a world before this one, where they were Earthīs last defenders of the human abuse of nature. But magic faded, and they were gone. Well, thatīs what they dream AND believe, not what ACTUALLY happened.
5. They form tribes, being able to recognize each other from other humans and meta-humans. Most of them are eco-terrorists or (the lonely ones) urban vigilantes, giving birth to many urban myths.
6. The teleporting thing. Yeah. Well, letīs talk about it. In WoD, itīs just the Umbra Shift, but in SR itīs a too damn powerful ability, I know. Letīs say only a FEW (VERY powerful few) of them, with the help of some spirit, a mighty, super-duper, ultra-pow... - you got the idea - spirit, can do the Astral Shift. Most of them (99.9%) can only do the average astral sightseeing (no, they canīt project astrally).
So, what do you think?
Herald of Verjigorm
Jan 13 2005, 05:10 AM
Oddly, the easiest explination that matches that power list is a free spirit. You could have something vaguely similar to bugs or shedim (which you probably have no rules regarding, I only mention them to give others a reference frame). A spirit type that possesses a metahuman (possibly by ritual biting of a wolf or already unified spirit of the same type), it gives up most of it's astral freedom to bind itself fully to the metahuman. It no longer has any way of entering the astral plane, but can take its host to their native metaplane to travel instantly between perfectly mirrored surfaces in locations it has been to. As a kind of spirit, they possess sorcery, but only have access to conjuring for the purpose of spreading their own kind through humanity in a proper ritual.
Other details: Always astrally active. Recover at half the normal rate for spirits (1 box every 2 minutes both physical and stun). Healing damage of certain types (weapon foci, silver?) occurs at normal metahuman rate. Can gain karma due to their metahuman side, but can't accept karma like other spirit types do.
Possible options: Mental stats and effective magic rating are all the same, and equal to the initial force of the spirit before being obund to a human. If used as a PC, mental stats cost 4 attribute points, but apply to Int, Wil, Cha, essense and magic rating. So to buy at force 4 costs 16 attribute points just for that, but is effectively 4 in all of the above stats. This one big mental stat can be increased by initiating at 50% extra karma cost, but using the current rating instead of a static "6". So from 4 to 5 costs (4*3*1.5 = 18 with no group and no ordeal).
The following spirit powers can be taken as metamagics:
Animal control (wolves)
Fear
Movement (self)
and maybe some I'm not thinking of
Well, that's my take on your first post, take what you want from it.
toturi
Jan 13 2005, 06:03 AM
You might want to to give them a Magical allergy to silver, a penalty to Magic if they come into contact with silver.
Perssek
Jan 13 2005, 06:36 AM
Very well, letīs make some points:
Good ideas, until now, but I guess I forgot to make something clear: weīre playing 2nd Edition SR. Thatīs it (maybe sad but certainly true).
So, letīs examine your kind advices:
Toturi, Magical allergy is probably a good idea. Not only they could be hurt by silver, but their magical rating could drop in the mere presence of silver. It could make them less the uber-PC they are looking to me right now.
Herald, itīs a good explanation, and probably also a VERY good turn of events for the PCs, if theyīre willing to become Weres. But the mechanics you provided are in 3rd ed quotation. and I donīt have any 3rd ed. books. So, could you kindly, gently, very, very nicely and paciently put that in 2nd ed. terms?
And what about racial limits?
Thank you all.
Herald of Verjigorm
Jan 13 2005, 06:52 AM
I'm not sure what needs to be restated. If you have a copy of the Grimoir, I think all the terms are there. If not, then part of the problem is extra-magical terms that you don't have a book for and I will need to rework some of the ideas to fit that.
The "possible option" is an idea to make them more like spirits so they stand out from humanity even more. It's also probably the most confusing part.
In my hypothesis, they are spirits bound to metahumans, so their physical racial limits should match the normal for that type of metahuman with hybrid stats of meta+half essense and full animal stats as critter+half essense. Since the hybrid form is the most obvious, I do not see a problem with it having the most raw power.
If you take the optional idea and make all their mental stats into one expensive attribute (effectively the force of the possessor spirit), it would probably be best to keep the mental attribute racial modifiers from whatever type of metahuman it was originally.
Perssek
Jan 13 2005, 07:26 AM
QUOTE |
I'm not sure what needs to be restated. If you have a copy of the Grimoir, I think all the terms are there. If not, then part of the problem is extra-magical terms that you don't have a book for and I will need to rework some of the ideas to fit that. |
Yeah. Sorry for that
. I read too fast, and didnīt quite get it. Sorry again. I took a look at the Grimoire (2nd ed.) and I guess that your main point is going to work, that is,
QUOTE |
In my hypothesis, they are spirits bound to metahumans, so their physical racial limits should match the normal for that type of metahuman with hybrid stats of meta+half essense and full animal stats as critter+half essense. Since the hybrid form is the most obvious, I do not see a problem with it having the most raw power. |
Only that Iīm limiting weres to be human. No Ork, Troll, Elf or Dwarf weres (although a Dwarf were would be funny to look at), just plain humans.
Iīm going to work on some stats and Iīll come back to you guys tomorrow for more work.
Oh, and if I didnīt already said it, THANKS!
Herald of Verjigorm
Jan 13 2005, 07:33 AM
I'm glad you have that book, it saves me some time trying to restate my ideas. If you want it limited to regular humans, it's easy enough to toss in a "neither of the researchers who lived long enough to write down their analysis could determine why only regular humans could be valid hosts" or some other line like that. It lets you, as GM, deny their troll werewolves, but still leave it open for some random bit of plot to provide a dwarf werewolf NPC later on.
Perssek
Jan 14 2005, 06:29 AM
Iīm back. So hereīs some stats. Mostly, they were made arranging the stats of the shapeshifter of SR2 and some very welcome data from a friend who has SR3, where, according to him, you can find stats for making shapeshifter PCs. I donīt know if itīs true, but they sound good to me. Letīs go:
- Maximum Racial Stats:
In human form, itīs the regular for humans, but Body, Strenght and Charisma can go all the way up to 7. I wonīt bother with the hybrid form maximum because it all sprout from the human form stats, and the wolf comes from the regular wolf stats.
- Racial Modifiers:
Human: +1 Body, +1 Strenght, x4 Running, +1 Charisma (like shapeshifters, they look big, tall and handsome, hence the +1 in Ch).
Wolf: +2 Body, +1 Quickness, +1 Strenght, +1 Reaction, +1 Charisma, +1d6 Initiative, x5 Running (Obviously, itīs big, fragging wolf, very beautiful and all, but a wolf. Canīt open doors, talk, or anything in physical terms that a common wolf couldnīt).
Hybrid ("crinos"): +3 Body, +4 Strenght, +1 Reaction, +2d6 Initiative, +1 Reach (long arms), x4/x5 running (on two legs/on four legs).
- Powers:
Human: Animal Control (wolves), Enhanced Senses (night vision), Regeneration.
Wolf: Animal Control (wolves), Enhanced Senses (night vision, smell), Regeneration, +1 Str Unarmed Combat Attack (claws and fangs).
Hybrid: Animal Control (wolves), Enhanced Senses (night vision, smell), Regeneration, +2 Str Unarmed Combat Attack (claws and fangs), Paralyzing Howl.
- Weaknesses: Allergy (extreme) to silver, Vulnerability to silver (although I think itīs basically the same thing).
- Extras:
All of them have Astral Vision, are Wolf Shamans (even if they donīt have any training), canīt have cyberware (their regeneration power would expell it after implantation), and maybe - and itīs a GREAT maybe, folks - they could learn some PhysAd powers, or something similar, with their Magic Score as a level keeper, just like a PhysAd. But they could only acquire these powers after some Initiation of sorts (yeah, Iīve been reading the Grimoire), after they contact their totem. To change into any of the forms is a Complex Action, and takes a full Combat Turn (about 5 seconds).
They are also more vulnerable to Mana Magic. Mana attacks cause one more level of damage, and can kill them, if the damage goes all the way through the Damage Monitor, without making the Regeneration tests (maybe itīs related to the bonding with their inner spirits, that weakens with magic attacks).
So, what do you think? Too munchkin? Too stupid? Tell me.
Fortune
Jan 14 2005, 07:56 AM
The rules for creating PC Shifters can be found in the Shadowrun Companion.
Dissonance
Jan 14 2005, 08:32 AM
WoD style werecreatures with a penchant for eco-terrorism? Fear aura? Shamanically inclined?
I smell toxic avengers!
Perssek
Jan 14 2005, 09:21 AM
QUOTE |
I smell toxic avengers! |
Yeah, yeah, toxic avengers (now what the hell is that?!)...
toturi
Jan 14 2005, 12:31 PM
QUOTE (Perssek) |
QUOTE | I smell toxic avengers! |
Yeah, yeah, toxic avengers (now what the hell is that?!)...
|
Avenger shamans who are Toxic critters.
Dissonance
Jan 14 2005, 11:51 PM
Well, technically, they're regular shamans who are toxic, but in the non-polluting way. Imagine Captain Planet, if you would. But instead of arresting you for dumping harmful chemicals in the dolphin preserve, they're shooting you in the face for driving an SUV.
So, yeah. They're shamans, they get a huge stiffy for nature, and get potency.