Hey ho,

So my decker has a cyberdeck. w00t! But then they do rather tend to have them, don't they?

Anyway, this deck is custom built by my friendly neighborhood Triad sponsor (that is so obviously gonna bite me in the ass if I'm not careful that I constantly throw them bits of info, cred and gear to keep them sweet), and is incorporated into an armoured breifcase of the stainless steel, slightly-grooved-on-the-outside type (I hope you know what I mean. I can't think of a film oranything with one in off hand). Y'know, its a big, solid, heavy breifcase. Its more armoured than usual, (barrier rating 10) which again has no weight, so I'm gonna go with five kilos empty - heavier than many guns.

But all the extras built into this case have just got to make it much heavier. Its got a maxed out MCPC 8 deck inside, plus chip library (copies of all the matrix programs, know and data softs including mapsofts, lingua softs, the odd programming background skill and so on. I figure about 30 seperate chips, with the matrix programs stored in the storage memory. It also has a ton of offline storage, about a hundred meters of optical fibre on a spool with the jack on the end, a flip up display (when the case is open), hitcher jacks, compartment for the fold out mini sat-dish and the spray canister for the dish webbing. Its got miniaturized microtonics and electronics kits built into it as slide out compartments and a pistol sized storage compartment just in case. Combined Cred- and chip reader, a few mini-cameras both flat, camcorder, and trid, a printer, a selection of biometric scanners, as well as custom built slots for my ultrasound emittor detector, maglock passkey and sequencer, and some wire cutters.

Obviously, its all cunningly designed to fit together like a jigsaw in little compartments, and getting to stuff when you need it is not all that quick, depending on what it is, but its prioritised - chips are easiest to get to, or you can lift that tray up and gain access to the security devices and tool kits. One half of the breifcase is the actual deck and relevant parts for it (satellite components, optic fibre spool). You obviously have to open it up to use everything, but the deck itself has a secondary external jackpoint under neath one of the combination lock as well as one in the actual console itself when you open it, and the fibre spool feeds out externally. Oh yeah, and it cost a bloody fortune and that's not including the deck itself (in other words, I'm quite happy with it as a game item as both a GM and a player).

Trouble is, for almost none of this stuff is there a weight listed. I'm tempted to make it reeeally heavy, at about 15 kilos (not including a gun if I've stashed one in there), but this might well be overdoing it so I'm asking the knowledge base that is dumpshock - whaddaya think? I think, miniaturized, the tool kits weigh about half a kilo each, but the 100m spool of cable must weigh quite a bit, as well as the multitude of chips. But decks have no listed weights. Does this mean that they weight so little they didn't consider listing it, or have I missed it? I can't find weights for chips, or the armoured case, not to mention a bunch of other stuff. Is it reasonable for the stuff I can find to put out a 'discount' weight because its all designed to fit together and probably the tool kits will have some items in common, and if so how much?

If I've really missed obvious weight listings that would resolve this, let me know and I'll slink away, I'm not looking for you guys n gals to do my maths for me, I just can't find what I'm looking for. The character being a mage as well means he's not exactly the strongest fella - and I do treat the breifcase like its very big and bulky and taking up most of my weight allowance when it comes to kitting out armour and other working gear. If possible though, I'd like a more precise figure.

TIA

im american so i use lbs ,but id have to say with everything youve mentioned including the extra armor and fiber cabe which 100' woudnt way a ton but would add some wieght i would table rule 40 lbs.


my question is why would you want all that stuff in one quick easy place just screaming out to people steal me steal me?

Because I have the distinctive style flaw. I also wear horribly tres chic armoured suits and always use the same gun. Besides, its not like people are supposed to see it in action - I'm a shadowrunner! Its supposed to be secret. I don't brag about it. I am staggered no-ones tried to steal it though. the character's been in play for nearly six months of game time, and that's about two years of real time. 'Course, for a lot of that time I was gm-ing so the character was not around, but still...

All the programs and chips are only copies though. There are always backups of the data. And you could say the same about any decker - why carry around a million nuyen's worth of gear just begging to be stolen? Cos its your job. The extra kit in the case on its own is not really that expensive compared to a deck in any case, and although it represents a huge financial investment for the character, it only cost so much because it was custom built. It doesn't have any prototype or stupid-rating gear in there. Nothing is higher than rating 8 and most is R6.

Are the US versions of the SR books in pounds and ounces then? I didn't realise that!

Going to bed now.

I don't know for sure about the brief case but I'd say its a lot less than 5 kilos. Modern plastics and all that.

I don't think decks weigh more than a currant day keyboards. <lifts up keyboard> I'd say a half kilo, maybe?

The cameras and other stuff should have weights listed.

Most groups throw the encuberence rules out the window (a troll is likely pass out from helping you rearange your furniture) so as long as everyone is reasonable it usually works out.

Sorry I can't help more.

Edit: the US books are metric but we still usually think in pounds and ounces. What can I say? We're silly Americans...

the books ar not in american standards but a friend of mine went through and calculated all the wieghts of items from metric to lbs for us math illiterate people.

The listed book weights are, for the most part, FUBAR. While supposedly listing weights in kg, half the time it really should read lb., and even then they are still too high.

In my opinion, the case in question, including contents, would not weigh as much as 15kg (33lb.).

I think in pounds and ounces too - but the books are listed in kilos, so I've had to adjust somewhat.

micro-corders, dataline taps, print readers, and that sort of thing have a '-' listing for weight, there's nothing for optical cable (But I that computer cable is surprisingly heavy these days) or chips. Tool kits are aribitrarily listed at 5 kilos normally but these are miniaturised... its just not very clear.

Its like trying to figure out how much a mainframe costs to buy...

Thing is, I know its largely irrelevant, but just occaisonally its really important - last run we were on a trip where we could only take so much weight with us - we gave up and just allowed it after it became clear that the team wouldn't have a decker without it. But speaking as a player instead of a GM, I'm quite happy to be penalised for my IC choices, including picking a deck that's too damn flashy for my own good!

Really going to bed now!

20 lbs for a decent deck. heavier (or possibly lighter) for better ones.

Anything with a "-" means its so flaming light that it just doesn't matter. The chips are a joke, micro camera is about the same as a chip, most of what you have would weigh like a kilo at most all together. I asked about the decks and might be able to dig up a weight for you when I get home. All decks weigh the same because there is no physical difference beteen a 286 notebook and your new pentium III other than newer materials make it lighter. The deck case should have a weight listed so I would start with that and add maybe a kilo because yours has a much higher barrier rating than actually exists. The 100 meters of cable would probably weigh quite a bit and depending on its guage, would not fit in the briefcase. Judging by the pictures of cable that deckers usually have plugged in, I would say this is the case. Why on earth do you need a 100 meters?

Other than that, I have almost the same case minus the deck. I refer to it as my forgery case. Dont forget to hit Staples and pick up a selection on the hot new badge colors and the "In" format for stationary and letterhead to make phony letters and work orders.

Fortune is right, though I don't recall off hand, various object weights. I do know weapon weights are both in the screwed metric/pounds listing.

All light and heavy pistol weights listed in the book are correct if you read the number listed in pounds. (if you read them as kilos like the text describes, then guns weigh 3 to 4 times more in the future than they do modern day RL, don't even get me started on the complete and utter bullshit of ammo weights)
Submachineguns are about correct in kilos (maybe slightly on the heavy side).
And I couldn't at the time find accurate RL weights on assault rifles and bigger caliber stuff.

Cacon weights are screwed up, but I'd make it heavy but carryable in one hand without problems (7-8kg) It's more about how much you (and the GM) want the case to weigh stylistically than adding together the weights of everything inside.

Size is not necessarily equal to weight. I would expect decks to be a good deal more dense than a keyboard, at the very least. Although I couldn't be bothered finding out how much 20lbs is in real units.

How much denser? Its still just chips, processors, fiber optics, and keys.

You're saying that the average (Str 2) human/elf decker is going to haul around 8ish kilos of cyberdeck? I don't think so.

15 kilos is going to be a tough to carry for extended periods of time IRL. I recently had to walk a couple of miles with my laptop (which is in a leather case with a shoulder strap) and had to keep switching shoulders, carrying it by hand etc. (granted, I'm not in peak physical condition, but I'm not a total weakling either and the problem was more bulk than actual weight). I know, by the rules, that you can either carry something or you can't and fatigue doesn't happen, but still...

I'd guess that a deck is more comparible to a moden laptop in weight (and the size of a keyboard which makes it easier to carry) - so that's probably just shy of a couple of kilos - the extras make up the weight.

A quick google search has revealed this site with some cases - is this the sort of thing you're looking at? 6-7lbs seems to be the going weight, but then the case you've got is *much* tougher...

Apparently 1000' of CAT5 cable weighs in at 22lbs (source )- a quick bit of mental arithmetic says that approximately 4kg/100m (it's probably close enough for game terms considering the gun weights

I'd probably settle at something like 10kg for the whole shebang.

Taking a look at some highly rated armor plate and some ballistic shield weights, it looks like the briefcase would clock in at around 20-30 pounds (~9-13 kilos) if made to stop rifle fire today. Using some approximations that would give it an armor rating in the ~12 range. If we assume that armor has gotten lighter in 2060, the briefcase would probably weight around .75 to half that (4-10 kilos). 6-7 kilos is probably a good bet.

Assuming you deck clocks in at 2-3 kilos, the 100 meters of cable is another 3 kilos...

Hmm, thats pretty heavy to swing around like a briefcase...

I would think the weight of the spool and feed mechanism would far outdo the fibreoptic cable. The only issue I can see would be the bulk, not the weight (you have to coat the cable to keep it from kinking, binding, being too thin, etc.).

What size would it be, exactly? 50cm x 40cm x 15xm? That makes for a surface area of... 2 x 50cm x 40cm + 2 x 50cm x 15cm + 2 x 40cm x 15cm = 6700 cm^2

19mm thick polyethylene plates can stop FMJ rifle rounds up to 7.62x51mm (around the mentioned rating 10 for armor) at ~1.8 grams / cm^2. For a briefcase of the above size, that'd be 12kg -- the lightest you'll get with modern (2004) materials. It'd also eat up a lot of the space on such a briefcase, slimming down the free space to just over 10cm wide.

Good ole armor steel plates 6.4mm thick provide the same protection but at ~5.3 grams / cm^2, totaling over 35kg for a briefcase of the above size -- I think we can rule out steel plating.

Going with Crusher Bob's estimated 25% - 50% weight drop of personal armor materials from 2004 to 2064, the best you could get with very thick materials is in the 6-9kg for a rather large briefcase. The 15cm is the minimum for the width of the briefcase to have enough space inside after the plating. At this size, the total weight for the empty briefcase with the armor but no additional parts is going to be in the 8-11kg range (based on a quick browsing through some hi-tech aluminum briefcase makers' sites).

IIRC, Rigger three lists the CF for a deck at around .2, which means it takes up around most of a small rucksack.

fyi, i have a computer that fits entirely inside a keyboard - you just attach the monitor and mouse and external power supply...includes a CD burner as well...it weighs about 12 lbs, slightly heavier than my full-featured laptop at work...

Well, there's some good things to think about there. Regarding the optic fibre length - I agree its completely unnecessary the vast majority of the time to have 100m of cable. But on the other hand, it means if you need cable for another job (perhaps you want to sit round the corner out of sight while your sequencer gets through that lock), its a relatively simple matter to take off the jack interface, cut the length you need and so on. Its a 'be prepared for anything' approach that the character has - which of course has its own pitfalls.

Anyway. Enough about the character. Irrelevant.

I knew I could count on Austere to provide some real world physics...

The case is designed to stop rounds from heavy pistols and at least seriously reduce the chances of damage from such a weapon firing say explosive ammo or APDS, but still be damaged by things like shotguns. I hadn't considered that it also makes it resist most rifles! Even considering that in our game the sort of people likely to have ARs also tend to have special ammo as well (thereby reducing the effectiveness of the case severely against those weapons) I might drop the barrier to 8. I didn't figure Barrier 10 as being all that high to be honest. In the book 8 is listed as armoured glass, and 12 as structural material. I figured 10 was about right for 'bullet proof composite' or the like. Admittedly I've always been a little confused as to what the real life difference is between ballistic glass and armoured glass, but I always assumed that 'ballistic' glass was anything but and was actually what we would refer to in the UK as 'antishatter glass', commonly used in bus shelters. *shrugs* Meh.

But it looks like the average suggested weight is around 12 kilos, so I'll go with that.

As for lugging it round all day - he doesn't. He lugs it from the vehicle to the job. No extended hikes if it can be avoided.

Thanks for the input.

I don't know anything about the weights...but I want one of those

Well the deck cost just about bang on a million (well, it does once you factor in some R6 utilities), the case design, construction and perpherals we decided came out close to half a mil. Its an arbitrary figure, probably waaaaay too high (though that does include all the sec-gear) but it was decided that such a unique, custom piece of kit hould cost a fortune just to add that sense of worth to the character. You couldnt' sell it for that much, and about half the total cost was supplied by the Triad - I *told* you it was gonna bite me in the ass - so get saving, or prepare to sell your soul to the lowest bidder...

if I had to hazzard a guesstimation, a "balastics" glass would most likely be made of a material that when shot through, would have wide spread cracking, but not actally shatter, and if it did shatter, the compisite would be such that the instance of shards that could cut would be reduced.

Armored glass, again, as a guess, would be such that it would more try to stop the bullet, without the fracturing of the glass, instead leaving a slug in your window.

spotlite: It really is impossible to draw direct equivalents between SR Armor, Power and Barrier Ratings and what we have IRL. The first problem you run into is that, in SR, Heavy Pistols penetrate better than Assault Rifles, as well as heavy Sporting Rifles and Medium Machine Guns. This is so completely bass-ackwards that trying to make sense of any of the related figures is futile. Your approach to this seems very healthy.

Note that any APDS rounds, except for Hold-Out Pistols, will still penetrate a Barrier or Armor Rating of 10 and damage anything behind. IRL as well, to make something invulnerable to common armor piercing munitions from mid-power and weaker rifles and other weapons you'd need materials weighing more than twice as much per unit of area as the polyethylene plates I mentioned.

I'm pretty sure there's no such distinction IRL. Armored glass just means any glass that happens to be resistant to attacks, ballistic glass refers to glass meant to protect against ballistic threats specifically.

Pics of bullets vs ballistic glass laminates
Interesting to note that 7.62x39mm FMJs aren't much better at penetrating this type of barrier than .44 Magnum SPs, even though the 7.62x39mm's penetrate body armor far better.

As a techie that deals with Fiber, there is on flaw in the less space arguement, if you put the fibre into a loop under a certain diameter, it'll run the risk of shattering the glass. Of course, that's today's fiber optic cable, sixty years from now, I'd hope they could over come that limitation.