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TeOdio
I read a lot of the Improved Invisibility posts and saw a lot of different ways to look at them. I'll probably stick with how I've been doing it so I don't piss my players off. grinbig.gif
I have another question for you all fine folks out there.
Do you allow astrally projecting mages to cast invisibility (mana based) on their auras?
I allow astral "stealth" tests and the like and my players and I came up with a discussion on why someone would want the mana based invisibility. I said that mana based spells can be used on the astral. As I have read it, another astrally aware character can make an assensing test to determine if their is a spell in the area, but otherwise might not notice it in the flotsom and jetsom of the astral terrain. With that line of logic, I allow a character to cast invisibility on their aura. It keeps them out of site unless they give an astral entity reason to make an assensing test. I like this as it can help keep a Shadowrun "quiet". And since they took out a lot of the Twink things you can do on the astral in 3rd Ed I am not quite as opposed to my players taking an astral jaunt occasionally.
Just a question, interested in seeing what you folks have to say.
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Crimson Jack
I allow this. I call it Masking.
GrinderTheTroll
QUOTE (Crimson Jack)
I allow this. I call it Masking.

LOL.

Illusions are no good on the Astral, but Masking is.
TeOdio
QUOTE (Crimson Jack)
I allow this. I call it Masking.

But masking doesn't really make an aura invisible. It just allows the auras to appear mundane. If someone makes an assensing test against a masked aura they will realize it isn't attached to a meat bod. Top Right Paragraph, p76 MITS. My buddy tried to knock Masking as being uber twink and I used that to deflate his argument. It's still mighty useful, but it ain't no Invisibility.
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James McMurray
By the RAW there is no way to make your aura invisible. i personally think that's a great idea. Mages already make astounding scouts. Allowing them to breeze by astral gaurdians makes them too good IMo.
mfb
indeed. and, no, i don't allow invisibility to work on astral sight.
Crimson Jack
Why would you want to make your aura invisible? If you see a thing moving around and you know it to be alive, yet it gives off no aura, you've defeated the purpose of being invisible. Now, you've become a subject of interest to anyone perceiving in the area. Regardless of whether you can hide the glow of the aura, astral perception still allows those using it to see physical forms.
James McMurray
They're talking about making an astrally projecting aura invisible, not one tied to a meat body.
TeOdio
QUOTE (Crimson Jack)
Why would you want to make your aura invisible? If you see a thing moving around and you know it to be alive, yet it gives off no aura, you've defeated the purpose of being invisible. Now, you've become a subject of interest to anyone perceiving in the area. Regardless of whether you can hide the glow of the aura, astral perception still allows those using it to see physical forms.

I meant an astral aura, not one still tied to a meat bod. That would be funny though.
I see what you all are saying, but I have not found any ruling that says that Mana based Illusion spells do NOT work on the astral. If someone knows where it might be stated I may have to rethink why I allow it. (Much to the dismay of a mage or 2 in my games). I guess I try and give the players ample opportunity to avoid combat, so when it comes down to that it's their own damn fault. vegm.gif
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Crimson Jack
Ah, I misread your initial post. So with that new understanding, no way. Heh, that makes the mage WAAYY overpowered. That is, unless you're going to start allowing enemy mages use the same ability... but talk about broken. I shudder to think of the ramifications of such a spell.

Can anyone say 'Turn to Goo'?
GrinderTheTroll
QUOTE (TeOdio)
QUOTE (Crimson Jack @ Feb 1 2005, 02:49 PM)
Why would you want to make your aura invisible?  If you see a thing moving around and you know it to be alive, yet it gives off no aura, you've defeated the purpose of being invisible.  Now, you've become a subject of interest to anyone perceiving in the area.  Regardless of whether you can hide the glow of the aura, astral perception still allows those using it to see physical forms.

I meant an astral aura, not one still tied to a meat bod. That would be funny though.
I see what you all are saying, but I have not found any ruling that says that Mana based Illusion spells do NOT work on the astral. If someone knows where it might be stated I may have to rethink why I allow it. (Much to the dismay of a mage or 2 in my games). I guess I try and give the players ample opportunity to avoid combat, so when it comes down to that it's their own damn fault. vegm.gif
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SR3.195 "Illusions"
QUOTE
...Although mana illusions can appear on the astral plane, their magical auras give them aways as illusions to anyone who makes a successful Assensing Test. Illusions do not disguise or creats auras.
TeOdio
QUOTE (Crimson Jack)
Ah, I misread your initial post. So with that new understanding, no way. Heh, that makes the mage WAAYY overpowered. That is, unless you're going to start allowing enemy mages use the same ability... but talk about broken. I shudder to think of the ramifications of such a spell.

Can anyone say 'Turn to Goo'?

That was my initial thought (thinking of the days of Grounding ...shudder...) In practice though, it has been no more overpowering than invisibility, plus, on the Astral, a mage can't have a sustaining focus holding on to the spell for him (+2 to all Target numbers). It just makes it easier to scout an area that has a drek load of watchers, astral sec, etc. It still can't get them through wards either. Without grounding, it isn't bad at all. And in an astral fight, if the opposing mage makes an assensing roll to notice the spell, he or she can then attempt to dispell it.
Keep em coming guys! I want to hear more!
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TeOdio
QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll)
[SR3.195 "Illusions"
QUOTE
...Although mana illusions can appear on the astral plane, their magical auras give them aways as illusions to anyone who makes a successful Assensing Test. Illusions do not disguise or creats auras.

Good look up Grinder. I had half of it right. But it says it plain as day. Can't disguise an aura. Hmm. Might just get rid of Mana based Invisibility all together. (But it does lend credence to your arguments against low force Improved Invisibility Spells as well)
Thanks Grinder!
Shaudes29
don't forget that if he was casting it, it would hafta be cast after the mage started projecting and all spells cast while projecting do physical damage
Gilthanis
Not to mention that even though the astral entity (not limited to projecting mages here) would also have an active spell eluminating them unless they can mask the mana spell anyways.....so, to actually work, would require an initiate with Masking....and that is if you house ruled a way to hide the aura to begin with.
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