I can tell you from experience that they let us take out the organs, but not put them back in...

It takes about 10 years of education AFTER residency to get to the level of transplant surgery. I don't think even technological advances of 50 years would change that significantly... an intern would be learning basic surgery, not transplant surgery. It's not until they start their fellowship (after 4 years of general surgery) that they even begin to start transplanting organs (gotta learn how to repair hernias, attach blood vessels, etc. first).

I'm not saying that a med student or intern wouldn't be present at a surgery like that. In my 3rd year, I had the unique opportunity to first assist a liver donor removal. But the most I ever did on my transplant surgery rotation was tie up some sutures, all started by my resident.

So i doesn't really make sense that cyberware is still that expensive? i mean, in 2050, when SR started, wired reflexes cost the same as in 2064.

I only need someone who says that i'm right with that

erl, so you think a corp takes a 40 million nuyen loss selling a set? Care to explain that logic? Who do they think they are? Microsoft with the Xbox?

I don't change the healing TNs, but the Stress rules are screwed in that Stress cannot ever be fully healed. In my opinion, removing that one restriction alone goes a long way towards evening things out. Keep in mind that Awakened characters are usually Karma-whores, so Sams can end up with loads more skills, usually at higher levels.

Methinks he added an extra '0'.

Where do you even draw that conclusion? with nano assemblers capale of duplicating things on a molecular level why do you assume there's any failures at all. Modern processes for chip manufacture are even getting away from that. Do you have any IC reference to back up that supposition?

That's bad logic. That only applies if the quantities are limited, and they have a choice between selling it at a discount or selling it at full price. In the case where the quantities are not limited then that item would not have made more profit selling it at full price, that specific object simply wouldn't have existed at all except fo use internally. They are out only the raw manufacturing costs.

Typically the more expensive the item, and the less the item will sell through the more the item is marked up. IMHO it probably costs less than 250k to make MBW 4. Remembers, corps in SR only really have to have the illusion of competition, there's many cases where SR's are used to eliminate the legitimate small upstart that upsets the balance with a superior product for a low cost.

Just another point to add into the mix (some may call it adding fuel to a fire ): The R&D that goes into making a piece of cyberware may have applications in other areas that the corporation is interested in. Part of that R&D would be neural pathway research that could go into making more efficient datajacks and headware. Part of that R&D would be materials engineering which may yield a brand new reflex trigger or some new diode/crystal/doohickey.

That's a really bad example, because you are wholly wrong. Sony does make a profit on every PS2 sold, and they have since it's release. Sony has retooled their factories 3 times IIRC consolidating chips, reducing the die sizes and making it cheaper to produce. You can even see the generations of hardware by their differences if you pay attention. It's estimated sony makes a 30% profit on the PS2 before they were shrunk into their current design, and the margin is higher now, but I haven't seen figures.

In reality their hardware has gotten chepaer and chepaer because they manufacture the parts themselves instead of buying from 3rd parties under contract for most of their parts like Microsoft.

Breaking even is one thing but only two companies have actually sold at a loss on hardware, and those two systems were the Sega Dreamcast and the Xbox. One went out of the hardware business, and the other has lost a few billion dollars. If the Xbox was owned by any company other than MS they would be bankrupt now, not because they have a bad product, but because they cant afford 200 to 300 million in losses every single quarter for 12 consecutive quarters. You can look those figures up.

Your post was a pretty common myth about the game manufacturers.

Even the original PS as it turns out analysts said was sold at a huge loss and it was learned later that it was in fact sold at a small margin due to new manufacturing methods. The same thing goes for the Nintedo Gamecube. Nintendo has admitted they make a small profit on each unit sold.

Also it's not confirmed but inside sources have said then even the new PSP is not being sold at a loss like a lot of speculators believe.

When discussing the pricing of items, you don't want to make comparisons to Rigger 3. A Federated-Boeing Eagle VTOL Fighter/Bomber costs 33% less than a Delta MBW-4, and with Kagetenshi's suggested 30 million you could get a suborbital. A suborbital is, or damn well should be, in a completely different class than Delta MBW-4s.

Very good point. I've never seen a character receiving such a "gift" of a corp. I think that's something for very long-running high-powered campaigns. As i never played in such (too many chars i wanted to play...), i never had the possibility to choose sth. like that.

And it is. It doesn't require extremely advanced control systems, needs much less precision of manufacture and customization to an individual, and can easily be broken down into smaller parts, many of which will be getting produced for more applications than suborbitals.

~J

We've found our difference.

Another problem is that in relation to the costs of less expensive things suborbitals have been lowballed by a significant amount, so I'm not sure, in retrospect, that we can really make a comparison between them. No more than we can compare to the price of computer memory or cyberlimbs, at least.

~J

This is also an invalid comparison because those are services that require a subscription to use, while Cyberware does not. The two business models are completely different, and not directly comparable.

I have never seen a single instance where a cyberzombie was even attempoted to be used as a commercial venture. Every instnace I have seen of them was for in uhouse use, or mainly aura/integration research.

Not at all. Again, you're assuming that they're selling the MBW. Perhaps they aren't, and are instead renting the services of MBW-equipped guards and mercenaries?

~J

Um, unless the topic changed without me knowing it... The question asked by the original poster was:

Not how much does it cost the end user. That's the question I keep going back to.