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GentlemanLoser
Hi All!

Iím getting back into Shadowrun and am trying to get up to speed with the 3rd edition rules. Iíve browsed these forums for a little while and found some great information, but Iíve a couple of questions (Iím sure thereíll be more to come!) that I canít find answers for and hope you could help.

What use are Smart Goggles? Iím assuming that Smart Goggles canít be used in conjunction with a Laser Sight (although the rules use the term SmartLink, which might only apply to the cybernetic versionÖ). Both options give a -1 TN, but Smart Goggles cost at least 4 times as much as a laser sight, not including the cost of modifying the gun itself! I also assume that Smart Goggles canít be used to eject a Smartgun clip as a free action, unlike the cybernetic version. What reason is there to use Smart Goggles over a Laser Sight? If Iíve assumed incorrectly, and Smart Goggles can be used with Laser Sights (Iím at work atm and donít have the books to hand, I think the rules state that laser sights canít be used with smartlink systems) what is the justification for this? If you already have a sight appearing in your vision highlighting the point the gun is targeting (from the Goggles) what additional help is a red dot appearing on the target going to provide?

Second question. In M&M I remember the entry for Smartlink (where describing the individual components used to create a smarlink) offering the idea of installing a second induction pad to allow the use of two smartguns. Doesnít this contradict the two weapon rules given in the combat section of the main rulebook that states that when using two pistols (for example) reductions to TNís from Smartgun Links, Goggles and Laser Sights arenít applied? Or is this cyberware option only given so that someone could hold two smart weapons, and only use one at a time? On a related note, Iíve seen ambidexterity mentioned here, sometimes as a special skill and sometimes as an edge, but Iíve not found it in the rule books we have at the moment (Core Rules, SOTA:65? - Latest one, MITS, M&M, SR Companion), is this a house rule, or does it appear in another sourcebook (Cannon Companion maybe?)? How does it work?

I hope this all makes sense and thanks!

JaronK
Well, Smartlink-2 smartgoggles would help you out with called shots. Also, sometimes you don't want to have a little red dot telling your target that you're about to shoot them. Furthermore, laser systems can have problems at long range (sniper rifles) or in fog, mist, smoke, etc. In all of these situations, the goggles would be better.

Laser sights and goggles do not stack.

As to the two weapons thing, a pair of smartlink pads lets you use smartlinked features in both guns, such as weapon ejection. Also, it would help you target in either hand as long as the other hand wasn't firing (so you could shoot with one pistol, then the other, as two distinct simple actions, and get the bonus on both... you just couldn't fire both in one action and get the bonus).

JaronK
GentlemanLoser
I don't remember seeing an option for Smarlink 2 Goggles. Did I miss that in M&M?

Long range and Fog versus at least 1,500 nuyen... So goggles are really only useful for snipers, which should probably be using a cyber smarlink anyway...

As for the second pad, the only reason I can thing of is if you wanted the opportuinity to use two different types of smartgun. Or two different types of bullets, without having to change clips. I'm not sure the cost is worth this tiny freedom.

JaronK
I believe there's SL-2 Goggles, but not entirely sure, because usually characters that would need them have the cyber version.

Still, putting a red dot on your target isn't always the best idea, if you don't want them to know you're about to shoot them. Also, laser sights take up an external mount that could be used for other useful things, such as scopes, gun lights, underbarrel weights, grenade launchers, and the like, while smartlinks don't.

JaronK
Fortune
The Ambidexterity Edge is detailed in Cannon Companion.
GentlemanLoser
Thanks. That makes sense. So it's an Edge and not a skill then...
Fortune
There's also an 'Off-Hand Weapon' skill, but technically it only applies to Melee weapons. It's also in the CC.
U_Fester
QUOTE (JaronK)
I believe there's SL-2 Goggles, but not entirely sure, because usually characters that would need them have the cyber version.

Still, putting a red dot on your target isn't always the best idea, if you don't want them to know you're about to shoot them. Also, laser sights take up an external mount that could be used for other useful things, such as scopes, gun lights, underbarrel weights, grenade launchers, and the like, while smartlinks don't.

JaronK

I also allow SL2 goggles. I can't find any info not not being any and if they SL2 impolants, I can't see why they wouldn't have SL2 goggles.
tisoz
Another advantage of smartlink goggles over laser sight is if the shooter is hidden or invisible. Chances are the laser beam is not going to be invisible and gives away your position.

Another reason, maybe more roleplaying, is some guns only come with smartlink. Some GMs let players back out the cost, some don't.

Another reason is gear compatability. If everyone else is using smartlink equipped, it can be handy to be able to borrow theirs.

A previous edition said use of smartlink could be set not to fire on friends. I still use that rule.
GentlemanLoser
"A previous edition said use of smartlink could be set not to fire on friends. I still use that rule."

That's cool, but would that work with a smartgun/goggle combination? If so, can you eject clips as a free action with smartgun/goggle as well?

Edit: Fat finger typing error
tisoz
Haven't had it come up. Even the mages either go laser or smartlink implant. Geek the mage usually starts with the ones without a gun, then the ones with laser and then goggles.
Nikoli
The friendly fire stuff requires an add on and target designators for your team. which can cause issues.

Thoughm i also recall the SM in 1st edition allowing for more economic round walking when targets were spread out.

if target #2 was 3 meters from target #1 from your POV, then you'd spend 3 rounds from your full auto burst inthe space between them. dunno if that made it into 3rd edition as I have yet to have a player use full auto since it came out and i was GM'ing
Crimsondude 2.0
It was in SR2 and SR3, too.

QUOTE (SR3 @ 112)
Smartguns never waste rounds.


Nikoli
Sweet.

Though, I also remember a warning about the "not shooting friendlies" add-on. Say you have to shoot someone that is, at least to your pov near an ally, such as shooting someone and the bullet passes over the shoulder of your friend. The beacon is a weak flux AOD like device, so your SL system just sees a friendly in the way and won't let the gun shoot. (Handy if your gun-bunny is overly cybered and prone to flipping out and shooting everything that moves when someone sneezes, not so handy when everyone is in control of themselves and situations get too hairy.)
James McMurray
QUOTE (Nikoli)
The friendly fire stuff requires an add on and target designators for your team. which can cause issues.

Thoughm i also recall the SM in 1st edition allowing for more economic round walking when targets were spread out.

if target #2 was 3 meters from target #1 from your POV, then you'd spend 3 rounds from your full auto burst inthe space between them. dunno if that made it into 3rd edition as I have yet to have a player use full auto since it came out and i was GM'ing

That is in 3rd edition, but smartguns never lose ammo when walking between targets.
tisoz
Ok, I looked in my SR3 and didn't see it mentioned beyond -2 modifier. if you lose no rounds walking fire, that helps recoil, too.
Zeel De Mort
The Safe Target System still exists as well. p33 of, yep, CC.
tisoz
QUOTE (Zeel De Mort)
The Safe Target System still exists as well. p33 of, yep, CC.

How do you figure that as part of the smatlink system?
Kanada Ten
A laser sight also takes up a "slot" on the weapon, either underbarrel or top mounted.
Necro Tech
As no one has said it the laser sight has no problems at "long" range as long as you are using a pistol. It has a range of 50M in daylight and 150M at night. Smart googles have no range limit. Think about that before you use one on your assault rifle.
Edward
There are times when it is useful to have the goggles, especially it you pay the exorbitant price for ultrasound SL2 sunglasses (with photo voltaic darkness and polarisation controls included).

The safe target systems s realy not a SR item. It is used by security and military agencyes to prevent friendly fire, generally by the time you trust a fellow shadowruner not to shoot you in the back for the reward (ie your wiling to give up the ability to shoot back) you trust him not to make such a stupid mistake. It may still be of use to a jazzed up samy with wires poking out his ass giving him a nervous twitch in the trigger finger but you have to measure that against security picking up on your beacons to locate you or worse replicating the signals on there own men.

Also I se no reason why it would be dependant on a smart link (although smart ink disabling of it may be advisable for said samy)

Edward
Xirces
I'm pretty sure that the STS is in CC, but then I don't look at that book often...

Also remember the high-powered laser sights with extended range which provide an alternative tactical advantage.

It's SL all the way for me smile.gif
GrinderTheTroll
100 Karma to the first person to figure out how GentlemenLoser's name relates to SR.
GentlemanLoser
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NightHaunter
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Former nobility turned shadowrunner.
GentlemanLoser
LOL! Not quite the origin of the name...
Demosthenes
Ask Automatic Jack
GrinderTheTroll
C'mon now...someone *has* to know...


PS - Sorry GL, you're not eligible for this one. wink.gif
GentlemanLoser
Bahh! wink.gif
Garland
C'mon people, Burning Chrome...

Is it because everyone is at work?
GentlemanLoser
dead.gif

A quick web search would even end this! wink.gif
Garland
A person could even read it for themselves...
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