i have been playing two runs with my new character (a physad). the first was an easy one which earned me 5 karma. then came the second run. a very very deadly one, which earned me unbelievable 42 karma!!! no my gm is not insane, but the run was very long, very deadly and i just happened to help all my group over and over again.

anyway, my problem is that i lost my eyesight, because of some nasty critter. my gm pointed out that i CANNOT genetically repair my eyes or implant other genetically produced eyes. which leaves me only one option: cyberware.

since i have the sensitive system flaw, i need to pay double essence-costs for the eyes.

what should i best do? i thought of initiating once and buy a magic point for 20 karma, learn physad-powers and put geasa on these for the loss of my cyberimplant? would this be an ok approach? i really don't want to put double-geasa on my powers, since i am already very crippled.

another question i couldn't find an answer in my books are:
if i have natural (not adept power) lowlight vision and i have to replace my eyes with cybered implants, am i still able to use lowlight vision? if yes, do they still count as natural or cybered (in regards for TN).

thanks

You loose your natural low-light (or thermo for that matter) vision when you get cyber replacements.

You're GM doesn't sound very sporting, you should be able to have another option other than cyber. Magic, bioware, etc should be able to do it. Perhaps an Astral quest would help you out in finding how to get your vision back without cyber (you wouldhave to get a spirit or somesuch to open the gate to the metaplanes for you though).

-Strobe

i was able to roll for all my mage-contacts and all my groups contacts to find someone able to help me. unlucky me, the dice thought different.

the other problem is, that i was infected with some nasty stuff, that attacks the eyes and if i would heal them magically, replace them genetically/bioware, i would sooner or later loose my eyesight again.

so i really do not have an option anymore. i am not mad at all at my gm. this is how shadowrun is, i suppose. if i could run the shadow without ever to have to worry about long-term effects or DEATH, this roleplaying-system would sooner or later become very boring. don't you think?

Personally I'd get CyberEyes, without Geasa even. I love Cyber mixed with Magic. However, you DO have another option. learn Astral Perception by initiating twice.

You might consider just telling the GM you would really like to get Bioware eyes since it sounds like he's just trying to screw you over. What possible reason could a GM have for denying genetic repair or bioware replacement?

Anyhows, Cyber+Magic is an incredibly cool combo, and get an Image Link so you can get a Datajack and begin the ultimate experience in Cyberusage as a Mage.

Sphynx

what possible good would astral perception be for my char? blind and astral perception? will i still be able to drive cars/bikes? i cannot read books, nor simsinn, nor will i be able to know where the hell i am in seattle or anywhere. i will also need a gps-system, so i will know where i currently am in the city. with my sensitive system flaw, i will need to get several geasa at once, just to be able to pay the essence-costs, i need to initiate twice (once+20karma) and i need a hell of a lot of money if i want some decent cyber (alpha or beta, delta is just too expensive and my char doesn't have the dough for it)

What possible good? Well, my dear friend, Astral Perception is defintely not 'sight' as you know it, but you can indeed 'see' via it including driving cars and bikes, though knowing what speed you're travelling at might be a bit difficult.

Sure, you can't read and such, but your post implied you were looking for alternatives, and Astral Perception is just that.

As for the other stuff... Cybereyes (Alpha) with LowLight, Image Link, FlareComp and Mag Vision will take you to 0.32 Essence, same for a Datajack for 0.64 essence. No need to get cyber GPS/Orientation, just plug a NAV-Dat into your Datajack and view maps on your Image Link. Then I'd personally spend that last 0.36 for 0.32 essence to get a 2nd Datajack (good communication cyber with an external Transducer) and that's for 1 Geasa and 0.96 essence.

Sphynx

Sorry to double post, just thinking you might be confused on Geasa. You apply a Geasa to the lost Magic point, not to each piece of Cyberware. And that Geasa only effects 1 Power Point worth of power. So, if you take something like Exclusive +4 Stealth, then as long as you don't try to use those extra 4 dice while using some other power, you're fully operational. This does NOT mean that ALL your powers are exclusive, only that one Power Point is.

Sphynx

didn't understand your last post.

example:

i have freefall power level 6 (totalling 1.5 points) no i take a geasa for 1 magicpointloss on freefall. i thought that a geasa always take the whole skill. so all my freefall (not only up to lvl 4) will have a gease. same would happen if i would learn the lvl7+. wouldn't they automatically have the same geasa restrictions?

You are correct in that it applies to a whole power, but you are speaking of Geasa's to reduce Power Point cost.

You may ALSO take Geasa to offeset Magic point loss, which then applies to 1 Power Point worth of powers, not necessarily a whole power. For example, if you spent 1.5 to get +6 to Edged Weapons, and applied your Geasa to 1.0 of that power as Domain:Urban, then you'd get all 6 dice when in an Urban environment, but only 2 of those dice when in a nonUrban environment.

Sphynx

You might want to try some form of gene therapy to repair whatever it is that took your sight. Then you'll want to stuff all your Shadowrun books in a backpack and beating your GM over the head with it for being a bastard. That's about the only reason I can think of to give a magical character something they can't heal non-cybernetically. Hell, that's WHY they put clonal replacements and stuff like that in the rules -- so mages and adapts could get lost eyes/organs replaced without losing magic, even if it ment paying nuyen out the ass.

The Abstruse One

alphaware cybereyes w/ image link and thermo or low-light: .32 essence, 18,000
nuyen.

smartlink-2, minus the image link: .64 essence, 3500 nuyen.

total: 0.96 essence, 21,500 nuyen, -1 magic or geas.

It seems everyone missed his comment about sensitive system.

If you can use the gene-tech in SotA, that should allow you to reverse any infection at a high economic cost.

Astral perception allows you to see the physical world, but as shades of gray and you cannot see letters, but you see intent instead. There is a +2 TN for "purely mundane tasks" when using astral sight to see, but dual natured creatures do not face that penalty so it may be reduced as you grow more accustomed to the sense.(debate with GM)

Astral sight is definitely a possibility for a blind character - and you might be surprised at how relying upon it will shape your PC. Most everyday activities (such as driving) won't really be a problem - +2 to TNs in sticky situations though, but that's your rigger's job anyway! - and autopilots exist to help with the nitty-gritty such as speed limits.

Basic things such as reading become very different things. The PC whose name I chose for these boards used a datajack for that kind of information retrieval: when others showed her a picture, she had to scan it into her wrist computer to "see" it. Others might have to find other ways around it. Dressing and disguises were done completely by rote: it was not as though she could check her appearance in the mirror.

On the other hand, combined with aura reading, psychology, and some reasonable levels of CH-based skills, it becomes surprisingly easy to read the motivations of those you deal with - and that should be a factor in future negotiations.

Hmmm... Well it seems that you either get screwed, or rely upon the GM's largesse. One possible solution which relies on the GM would be to do a run or series of runs the result of which would be curing or extracting whatever nasty eye-dissolving goo you have in your head that makes it so you cannot get lab-grown replacements. GMs always like a lead-in to new adventures, and doing those while blind will provide an interesting challenge.

Another possible option is this: in another RPG I play (Rolemaster), there is a learnable skill called Spacial Location Awareness. It is essentially blind-sight, or sixth sense. It is supposed to reflect that Hollywood fantasy which has highly-trained martial artists being able to function just fine when blindfolded, in darkness, or just straight blinded. Think Kickboxer or Iron Crown. Classicly, it has functioned like a sort of 360 degree martial arts sonar. No, you couldn't read, but you could still kick ass, and you could use it to your advantage by plunging all your enemies into darkness or IR smoke so that they would be penalized but you would not.

Unfortunately, the second option also relies upon GM largesse. The GM would have to decide how he/she would want to incorporate that sort of awareness (a skill anyone can learn? an Adept Power? what cost?), and if he/she would even want to make that option open for you.

There is always the third option... take what cash you have and retire, turn the character sheet over to the GM, and let him use you as a contact for your team in the future.

I don't think you need to think about astral perception or retiring your character. Just get the cybereyes. Even with the Sensitive Sytem flaw, it will only cost you 0.32 Essense for alphaware cybereyes. So get some cybereyes, and make the best of it - get low-light, vision magnification, and flare compensation. Then geas one point worth of your abilities with something like the domain/urban or exclusive geas, and go ahead with your plan to initiate once and buy another power point. The initiation will raise your Magic by 1, so even when your geas is broken your levels of power won't be too high, and you will wind up with 2 points worth of new powers and 1 point of old powers that are more limited now - you got a tough break, but you still came out ahead.

geez, just buy the alphaeyes with thermo+low light and take your Geas like a man! (i suggest: Sober, unless your character is a alco that is)

Since many of the magical characters I know get cybereyes anyway, I have to agree with Solidcobra on this one, particularly if you aren't interested in just getting Astral Perception.

If you are interested in a different alternative, talk to your GM about creating an Adept power that mimics thermosense organs, and get blind fighting.

If you do end up with the cybereyes, be glad you don't have bio-rejection--a character of mine who got her eye shot out did, and that wasn't fun.

I'd say make the argument for cloning your eyes again. Otherwise, your GM's just being a prick. There is absolutely no reason that you should not have your eyes cloned, even if your eyes have been infected since you can get the genetic code for your proper eyes from any other spot on your body. If your GM's not willing to work with you on this, then I don't know. I mean, he should at least say, "I'm doing this because..." and follow that with a rational or logical answer that will enhance everyone's enjoyment of the game, and not some half-assed excuse that's meant to ruin your day.

Then's there's gene-tech.

Spatial recognition, high-frequency hearing.

And I don't know if this is allowed, but have a mage quicken a personal force 1 clairvoyance on you. Sure, you're blind, but you can still see...actually, come to think of it, does that even make any sense...?

The trouble with detection spells is that they are resisted by the targets. So you would "see" just fine, except for all of the people you'd be bumping into because you didn't detect them.

Seriously, cybereyes are not a big deal. Your Magic will drop by 1, and Initiation will raise it back up by 1. You were also going to buy another power point, so you will have 2 new power points to spend, and only 1 point of your old abilities needs to be geased. So like I said, you came out ahead.

I see a few people think the GM is being unfair. In threads concerning exploiting flaws, what the GM did would be applauded by many. To think, the player took sensitive system for his magically active player thinking he wasn't ever going to get cyber anyway, thus gaining some free flaw points.

Yes, I think the GM was being a bastard, but I think a lot of you relish being bastard GMs.

my figures incorporated the sensitive system flaw.

i really don't have any problems with my gm. i applaud him, because he is the only gm i have ever been playing with that really exploits all the flaws the pc's took on their characters. it makes the whole shadowrun-game alot more colorful and exciting, imho.

anyway:
i think i am going this way:
buy 1 magicpoint for 20 karma.
join initiative group for 3 karma
group initiation without ordeal for 14 karma

which leaves me with magicrating of 8.
i will learn 1 point path of the magician and quick-draw (bow-specialist) and something else i haven't thought of.

i'll geas the whole point of path of the magician and buy the alphaware cybereyes with smartlink2 combo.

i think, that's the best deal i can come out with. adept-powers, mage-powers, bow-specialist, unarmed-combat specialist, cybered eyes and smartlink2 and being an orc.

is this munchkin style? or can this be considered ok?

so you are a adept of the magicians way ? or is "magic talent" are normal power in your group ?

yes yes, true.

i am magician adept. which means, if i take path of the magician, i'll be able to cast spells, etc. not very powerful to learn it only on level1, but still.

As there is no 'cure' for your infliction at the moment perhaps you can find scientists/surgeons that are willing to discover the cure...for a price of course.
sounds like a lot of runs and fun. finding , convincing, paying/rewarding them. This could even take several years. Meanwhile you can get astral or cyber until a cure is found.

Okay, the way you're spending this karma doesn't make any sense.
1) Initiating twice with a group is probably a cheaper way of getting your two power points, particularly if your group requires "oath" as an ordeal for your first initiation.
2) IIRC, the description of the Magician's Way says you can only take that physad power at character generation (i don't have the book on me).

@tisoz. I misread the rule on the deed ordeal and, going off a misreading, made a mistaken statement. Simply pointing out that taking the ordeal required loosing the karma would be the polite thing to do. Adding in statements about ignorance and stupidity is crass and shows a lack of common human interaction skills.

KawikaKeAloha:

Does your GM use some house rules? Normally, adepts of the magical way are not allowed to spend the 20 Karma for a power point.

well, we are bending the rules a bit. i mean, we are just trying to have fun playing. if it's no fun to play a character, there is no point in playing the game with that particular character anymore. don't you guys think that also?

i took chose magician at chargen, just because i thought it would be fun to let the gm have some opportunities with my physad. i'm not a min-maxer just curious what gm's do when you leave them some imagination what they can do to your character. maybe i'll loose some physad-powers, but therefore gain some magic. who knows?

@katiegreen: it only states that if you take path of the magician at chargen, you get 6 spellspoints. else you don't get any spellspoints. that's what i understood.

@TinkerGnome
At first it sounded like you were giving some really stupid advice to a gamer who either isn't that familiar with the system or who is playing with some house rules. What if he had taken your advice to his GM and said, "I'd like to use the last run as an ordeal for initiation."? If his GM is truly evil, he would have let him, and it would have cost him dearly for that initiation.

Then you say you were merely wrong and I was insulting because you offered advice in ignorance of the rules. So I amended my post to point out it was merely ignorant instead of stupid, but why I mistaked it for stupidity - 2 initiations for under 40 karma or 1 intiation for 40 plus karma. It also seemed to me you were trying to divert your ignorance of the rule you were prompting someone to use that would have screwed them by saying I was insulting.

I was. You seemed to be even worse in giving such terrible advice. So in my retraction of stupidity and clarifying it was ignorance, I should have also added negligence on your part in the first place. Such blatantly bad advice, if taken as serious, asked for more than pointing out your mistake. If you read my first post understanding I thought you were knowledgable about the subject you were discussing, it isn't really that harsh IMO.

I don't know if you are still trying to divert attention from your dumbass mistake by saying I have no common decency or people skills. I don't think Miss Manners would advocate your further human interaction skills, either. Certainly not mine.

So, I am sorry I came across as so belligerant and I hope everyone takes this post with a grain of salt.

@tisoz : imo, even if you didn't wanted your comment to be rude, continuing hammering the nail longer then necessary certainly is. Try to keep your posts less "passionate" in choosing the terms you use and a lot of fuzz will be avoided.

Perhaps we could get back to the topic of adepts/cyberware/cruel GM's/initiation/karma/... or anything else intended...