So what is everyone's take on allowing characters to increase their skills in increments larger than 1? I've met several people that claim it isn't legal (they may have a point, I feel like I am violating the spirit of the rules but I have not seen a quote to support it) It's never been a problem for me and it helps the mundanes keep up with the magically active characters at the higher karma levels.
Nalanthi
Full Version: Skill Increase
Depends on how much downtime..
If you've got maybe a night between the two runs, then I don't really think any skill increases make sense.. (the time it happened to us, I don't think we got any)
If you've got a few weeks to a month between runs, then why shouldn't you be able to train more than 1 point up, at least at lower skill levels? It's a long time to say 'no, you can't actually start to understand this stuff beyond the very basics' (Aka, train from skill 0 to skill 2 or 3 over a 2 month period)
If you've got maybe a night between the two runs, then I don't really think any skill increases make sense.. (the time it happened to us, I don't think we got any)
If you've got a few weeks to a month between runs, then why shouldn't you be able to train more than 1 point up, at least at lower skill levels? It's a long time to say 'no, you can't actually start to understand this stuff beyond the very basics' (Aka, train from skill 0 to skill 2 or 3 over a 2 month period)
Shadowrun Companion details how much time it takes to raise skills. You may raise as many points "at once" as you can fit in your downtime. Refer to it for more details.
Aside from that, I'm starting to take the approach to decide either case by case if a particualr skill can be raised by the player, or I do things like say "ok, you can raise 1 point of your choice" or things like that.
Aside from that, I'm starting to take the approach to decide either case by case if a particualr skill can be raised by the player, or I do things like say "ok, you can raise 1 point of your choice" or things like that.
I'm not exactly sure how the official rules are, but I let people buy multiple points up to 1/3 (round up) of the linked attribute. That way you avoid the issue of going from 12 dice at TN+4 for defaulting to one die at no penalty. A raw deal. Above that, though, I usually make them buy points one at a time just so that no single ability comes from nowhere. I also don't use the training time rules.
And as always, YMMV
And as always, YMMV
| QUOTE (Backgammon @ Feb 22 2005, 08:38 PM) |
| Shadowrun Companion details how much time it takes to raise skills. You may raise as many points "at once" as you can fit in your downtime. Refer to it for more details. Aside from that, I'm starting to take the approach to decide either case by case if a particualr skill can be raised by the player, or I do things like say "ok, you can raise 1 point of your choice" or things like that. |
SRC is indeed the reason that I have found that it is not broken to increase your skills in increments of larger then one. I want to be sure that everyone understands that by this I mean that someone could increase a skill from one to six for only 9 karma (assuming linked atribute>=6).
The reason I have found this to be functional is that if you fail your training roll (1 die TN 8 ) you waste a good deal of your available training time, which given the fact that I have enforced a training time on karma to cash and cash to karma, means no one ever has enough free time.
Nalanthi
Oh. That's different. We've only done it by increments of 1. Just.. multiple times in quick succession.
I'd allow a character to raise their skills by more than one level (on a case-by-case basis), but they'd still have to pay the cost for each level.
the wording in SR3 technically doesn't disallow raising a skill by more than one level at a time--for instance, raising a skill from 3 to 5, without raising it to 4 first.
however, i don't believe this is the intent of the rules. otherwise, there's nothing to stop a character from going from skill 1 to skill 14--or higher--for very little karma (and time).
however, i don't believe this is the intent of the rules. otherwise, there's nothing to stop a character from going from skill 1 to skill 14--or higher--for very little karma (and time).
Yeah, there is nothing in the BBB that expressly forbids it, but Attributes need to be raised one point at a time and all examples of Karma costs for skills show improvements of one point at a time. It's quite against the spirit of the rules, and unbalancing to say the least (especially when the difference between buying Karma "jumps" are at least 50% less than buying it one point at a time, if not more).
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| however, i don't believe this is the intent of the rules. otherwise, there's nothing to stop a character from going from skill 1 to skill 14--or higher--for very little karma (and time). |
I have to concede that what I do probably violates the spirit of the rules. However,after playing with it for a while (Two 200+ karma campaigns and a variety of shorter offerings) I have found that it is not very unbalancing. The caveat here is that I modified the training time rules to make it make more sense. In SRC
(p48-49) It says that players make a skill test at TN (desired rating +2) and divide the training time by the successes generated. If no sucesses are generated then the training time is multipled by 1.5 (defaulting permited as normal).
I modified that to say that if you fail the training test then you spend half the base training time to no benefit. This reflects the fact that going from 1-6 in a skill requires a very different program then going from 5-6. The first requires an intesive and dense regimen in the skill that ismuch more likely to overwhelm you then teach you and the second is simply the natural progression of the skill. Not to mention if you don't intersperse your failed learning attempts with other activities I apply the repeated action penalty.
All in all, none of my characters ever try and go from 1 to anything higher than 4, and even that is a stretch (the only people that tried were in a real bind and burnt karma pool on the test). And only truly dedicated characters try and raise their skills above 6 as we start talking difficult tests (TN 8+) with serious time penalties for failing (simulating the truly horrific ammount of training to become world class level in a skill).
Seriously speaking to improve a skill to six, assuming you have willpower 6 and 7 hours a day to spend means that it will take 24 days base training time. If you have 2 dice in the skill you will fail about 74 percent of the time. Since each failure takes 12 days of training time most of my players will not risk it without an overiding reason.
Nalanthi
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| I'd allow a character to raise their skills by more than one level (on a case-by-case basis), but they'd still have to pay the cost for each level. |
Yeah, same here. This way the development of chars is slowed down. Rasing a skill from 1 to 6 in one sessions for just 9 points of karma is a very bad idea.
I agree with you, on top of that if you add the possibility to go from 1 to 6 during one night...
Geez, isn't that munchkin?
To me, it make absolutely no sense to raise a skill directly from(for example) 3 to 5 without paying for the 4 or spending time learning it. I mean, the details of the rules in SR are so great i think that if they didn't write this one down it's because it's so obvious that you can't do that(unless you house rule it). With enough down time i allow my player to raise the same skill twice if they want but they got to train right and spend time and karma for every level(in the end that's quite rewarding to see the evolution).
I just take my inspiration from current life, isn't that long to master something?
Then again i remember it's more like movie character in SR than real people and i think the rule in companion are quite fair in this regard...
Anyway, no offense whit that but my player are really satisfied with those rules
(maybe that's because they don't know anything else...
maybe it's just making sense to them...)
Geez, isn't that munchkin?
To me, it make absolutely no sense to raise a skill directly from(for example) 3 to 5 without paying for the 4 or spending time learning it. I mean, the details of the rules in SR are so great i think that if they didn't write this one down it's because it's so obvious that you can't do that(unless you house rule it). With enough down time i allow my player to raise the same skill twice if they want but they got to train right and spend time and karma for every level(in the end that's quite rewarding to see the evolution).
I just take my inspiration from current life, isn't that long to master something?
Then again i remember it's more like movie character in SR than real people and i think the rule in companion are quite fair in this regard...
Anyway, no offense whit that but my player are really satisfied with those rules
(maybe that's because they don't know anything else...
maybe it's just making sense to them...)| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| I'd allow a character to raise their skills by more than one level (on a case-by-case basis), but they'd still have to pay the cost for each level. |
I'd have to agree with this too. Though i don't use training times per-sa cost i belive that using a skill under stress is just as helpfull sometimes more so (sometimes less) as learning to do it in a safe enviroment. Although i only ussaully let characters skills go up by more then one if they used it alot.
I have to agree with the one-at-a-time stance. because otherwise, i'd have skills far too high. (and we run slightly higher power than most). I just think that the rule was implied and didn't need stated.
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