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The Grifter
In the Cannon Companion, it states that the Rapid Transit jumpsuit can hold up to a maximum of 10 colors and patterns which can be altered by an electrical charge. My question is, could the jumpsuit have 10 different camouflage patterns programmed into it?
toturi
Yes, it can. Did you notice it only recently?

It is way cheaper than a full suit of rutherium and much more available too.
Fresno Bob
Also about Rapid Transit...

Is there any logical reason for it to come with restraint melters?
The Grifter
Yeah, man. I was just flipping through it and noticed the part about patterns. I knew the colors could be altered, but didn't know about the patterns, so I figured I should ask about it.

Awesomeness.
The Grifter
QUOTE
Is there any logical reason for it to come with restraint melters?


You know those damned kids and their skating boards. The cops are always busting them. rotfl.gif
Herald of Verjigorm
QUOTE (Voorhees)
Is there any logical reason for it to come with restraint melters?

Logical, yes. Legal, not quite so much.
toturi
By the way you do not need all 10 patterns.

There are only about 8 enironmental patterns. Desert, Snow, Urban, Woodlands, all with Day and Night patterns. And 1 special camo pattern: Anti-Sensor Night Camo.

So you need only 9, I'd put a Safety Orange or some other eye catching colour/pattern as the last one because you never know when you'd WANT someone to find you.
Aku
what about the "ninja so black you can't see me" camo?
Bob the Ninja
I add that option into a lot of different clothes. That way one suit becomes several. Great for the executive on a budget.
Edward
I played one character that took that and had 3 delivery companies uniforms programmed in.

Edward
mfb
personally, i allow all camo clothing to have up to four patterns built in. makes a hell of a lot more sense than issuing four different uniforms, depending on terrain, and it makes fast deployments much, much faster.
Dog
I don't think you can convincingly make your jumpsuit look like another uniform, because of the shape, cut and all that. I mean, go buy a work overall at the store today and decide if you could convincingly paint it to look like a cop's uniform or whatever.
Mind you, if you just had a few different big corp logos on the back and shoulder, you could certainly help your bluff rolls along.

Hey, d'ya think that real uniforms in the 2060's could have counterfeit detection tech like money does these days?
Crimson Jack
I think the idea is that, at a glance, the runner looks official. Often times, the best place to hide is right out in the open.
nezumi
If you could change the colors, it wouldn't be hard to make a UPS uniform look like a FedEx uniform. At least well enough that your average Joe won't notice. It won't work to make it look like a police uniform, of course. Most couriers will have similar cuts to their clothes.
DrJest
QUOTE
Most couriers will have similar cuts to their clothes.


Even, I might add, foreign ones - your UPS blokes look a lot like our TNT boys do (UPS is the brown uniform, right?)
Tarantula
UPS is brown, yeah.
Eyeless Blond
Plus it's a jumpsuit, and a fairly common-looking one (counts as Ordinary clothing), so I imagine it would look similar to lots of uniforms.

Here's a question, though: can you change the styles that the uniform can switch into by changing the chip? And, if so, are there rules for creating/editing/buying these "style chips"?
DrJest
Even if it's not an option offered by the company, I could see hackers/modders making custom chips. Let's face it, they mod everything else out there biggrin.gif
Kagetenshi
I haxor your boxers.

~J
DrJest
Close... real close... I'd just swallowed my Coke when I read that smile.gif
mfb
there's no rules for it, but it's something the GM ought to allow.
Akai Sokata
I was thinking because I myself wear a heavy jumpsuit...Its not a very complex system. the logos of companys won't look stiched on. how complex of a camo pattern can it produce? bascally what im saying is the logo thing could maybe fool John Q standbyer, but anyone who would know its a fake could see right threw the disguise. but the camo idea would work to a extent. but it is no ruthenium sneak suit. but hey its fun. spill red pop on me switch it to red. sneeze on myself Bam! green hehehe. it saves on the dry cleaning.
Nikoli
Doesn't most fluff text describe Logos and such as no longer stitched on, but rather embedded in the textures of the fabric, or in the color of the dye. I don't see why a John Q. Public would be able to tell the difference, because to them it's the same thing.
Drain Brain
QUOTE (DrJest)
QUOTE
Most couriers will have similar cuts to their clothes.


Even, I might add, foreign ones - your UPS blokes look a lot like our TNT boys do (UPS is the brown uniform, right?)

Erm... their UPS blokes look a lot like our UPS Blokes too, dude!

And DHL, though they tend to have massive overcoats too, even in high summer...

I can see a great fashion trend here too, for colour change tech - go to a club in "Outfit X" with the change technology and employ a beat sensitive processor (like disco lights have IRL) and flash away with the music in cycling, psychadelic omni-colour! Woohoo!
The Grifter
Like it was said already, your average Joe isn't going to be inspecting your jumpsuit for signs of counterfeiting. As long as you can fast talk, you're set. Oh, and carrying a clipboard around always makes you look official.
Catsnightmare
QUOTE (The Grifter)
Oh, and carrying a clipboard around always makes you look official.

LOL! This reminds me of my 1st major Shadowrun group's first session. The GM used a single courier to deliver a contact message to each of the group members for a job meet. All but two of the 8 man team either mugged, seduced or stole that poor courier's clipboard.
I can imagine him trying to explain to his boss how he lost 6 clipboards in one day after being threatened with his life 3 times, and hit on/gropped by two different hot looking redheads (cha 6), and one clipboard just up and disappearing from a high stealth(theft) roll.
hobgoblin
reading the art of deception (or whatever the title of the book was, i have it here somewhere) can give you a indication about how easy it is too fool people. if you walk the walk and talk the talk only a other person in the same profession will call your bluff most of the time.

hmm, about clipboards, why would they still be around? most likely the curier would be using a handheld computer with a cell link and a credstick reader. this way you can report back to the hq instantly when then delivery have been made. no need to return except to pick up more stuff to deliver. hell, doesnt fast food delivery use hand held card terminals today allready?
Prospero
Definately. UPS already uses electronic pads where you sign with a stylus instead of a pen. In 60 years...
Nikoli
I have yet to see a food delivery person using a portable CC reader. I shudder at the idea as card skimming would be made all that much easier.
But int he perfect banking world that exists in SR, sure, why not.
Westiex
The book is called 'The Art of Deception' with a byline of controlling the human element of security. Its by Kevin Mitnick who was popular with the press ages ago for the fact that he was heavily into social engineering - that is getting people to give you the info that you want, rather then breaking into the place or hacking it.

Social engineering, mind you, also helps with the decking.

ISBN nubmer is 0-7645-4280-X
The Grifter
Yes, carrying around a computer might be more common, but I'm sure there would still be clipboards in use. Not to mention, with a clipboard you could walk around a site, taking notes, drawing maps, noting camera locations/guard patrols/etc., and no one would be the wiser.
Nikoli
Personally, i see the Pocket Secretary replacing the omni-present clip-board for officious looking people.
hobgoblin
ah true, had forgotten about the pocket sec, thats even supposed to have a stick reader nyahnyah.gif
Crimsondude 2.0
QUOTE (Prospero @ Mar 11 2005, 11:06 AM)
Definately. UPS already uses electronic pads where you sign with a stylus instead of a pen. In 60 years...

Those things are cool because they have about as many means of inputing data and communicating wirelessly as you can cram into one device.

The social engineering discussion reminds me of a funny RL story. I was walking into the offices of a relative--offices I've been into umpteen hundred times--and didn't know that they had changed policies on how to deal with visitors, and that I had to be escorted to their office. So on the same day as the new receptionist had one of the senior bosses (like #2) sitting in the lobby for 15 minutes until someone realized he was sitting there like an idiot (she didn't know who he was), I was visiting and as usual just walked and and started walking back to the office. Someone finally caught up to me after I was already sitting at the desk. And then it turned into an "oh, uh, sorry, uh..." situation. Never have been stopped to this day, yet, actually. God, I love the human element. It's so weak. I especially like the fact that people will, when asked, hold the door open for anyone who even remotely looks like they belong or can quickly give one half-decent BS line.

Of course, it's experiences like this that make me question everything about security in SR.
Nikoli
Because people in SR are so afraid of people they don't know it's not funny. They might not even realise they are this phobic consciously, but recent history coupled with the dystopic nature of the genre would lead folks to close the fire exit behind them even if their own grandmother was racing up in a walker trying to escape flaming death.
Crimsondude 2.0
That makes no sense, but YMMV.
Eyeless Blond
Actually it kinda does. I work at a prcious metal processing plant, and they have some of the tightest security I've seen anywhere. Noone holds the front door open for anyone; if you do you get stopped in the--what do you call it, murder-hole?--and have to go back and try again. They have everyone's ID cross-referenced with their picture right now, the pictures of course being hard copies at the guard's desk instead of on a computer, but expect to have biometrics in place by next year. Hell, you have to get wanded and have your bags checked before you're allowed to leave!

That's basically the minimum level of security I expect to see at most corps in the 2060s. They'd have plenty of manpower to do such a thing too, with the gigantic volume of unemployed that'll be pushed out of the service and manufacturing industries due to automation.
Crimsondude 2.0
But most places, hell, most government places aren't that secure. I can appreciate defensive landscape and architecture--Bunker Hill/Downtown L.A. is a monument to it--but there has to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere. Most corporate work is useless and worthless to outsiders. Most of the secure stuff would be protected via Matrix Security.

I mean, you work around precious metals. That level of security is an occupational hazard. But most people, I doubt, can accept the idea of armed guards wandering the cubicles 24/7 just because a corp can afford them. Too much security hurts the bottom line, and it would be the first to be cut. And all those service jobs... Those include contract security. Drone security is cheaper in the long-term than a heavily metahuman security force.

But what annoys me about SR security is the idea that anyplace on Earth is going to have monowire traps and lethal responses. It's not const-effective, it's useless for anywhere that's even slightly-traveled, because it has to be removed or disarmed for everyone walking through--because most white-collar employees are anything but security conscious. They don't have to be. Their employers keep them out in the first place, right?

But overall, what annoys me is that security is going to be as lazy as the personnel who have to deal with it on a daily basis, and most people don't have the tolerance level to have LMGs tracking their movements through the lobby or neurotoxins in the elevator air vents, or seventeen layers of security screens to go through just to get from the parking lot to their desks.

It has been my experience that most security is based on perception rather than reality. People think they're safe enough, and don't ask questions. People become panicky when you post SWAT officers in the Metro or park Humvees on every major intersection in Downtown (to name a couple of RL examples) and stop thinking they are safe at all. There is a threshold that people can accept before they cease to be functionally useful, let alone willing to take the job in the first place when they can find a small firm down the street that doesn't treat them like terrorists just by virtue of walking in the door each morning. Nor do I see this changing when, by its own virtue of mass-Matrix usage/telecommuting and having to be on-call or having someone at the office 24/7, that there are people in an office building every day all the time.

But ultimately, my point was that it was a pointless and unnecessary exagerration to describe people in 2060 as being so disenchanted and dissociated from reality that they would do something like lock their grandmothers in a burning fire rather than risk their security clearance at a job that might not be around tomorrow.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0)
But ultimately, my point was that it was a pointless and unnecessary exagerration to describe people in 2060 as being so disenchanted and dissociated from reality that they would do something like lock their grandmothers in a burning fire rather than risk their security clearance at a job that might not be around tomorrow.

However, I could see it being the fault of sheer stupidity on the part of said grandsiblings.
Kanada Ten
In every store hang black eyes, can you feel them watching? At every exit stand watchtowers, smooth and sleek, that sound the alarm when raiders come. Precious goods, be they drug, cigar or perfume, are kept behind glass or counter. Office supplies are locked tight in metal cabinets. Doors can count the number of people moving in and out, while the walls keep watch over badges. The city of Chicago is blanketed by an AI-run watchdog that alerts police when it spots a crime or even a package left at a train station. Security will never be as fun to break and enter as in SR, but it is getting... darker.
Drain Brain
This discussion has turned to security, from a certain point of view, so I thought I'd share this:

I've been on Jury service for the last two weeks. Lucky me.

Today, it being a bit chilly, I wore the coat I usually take to work. It wasn't until I set off the Crown Courthouse's MAD system that I realised I had the pocket knife I use at work (as a tool) in the pocket.

"No problem," says the security guard, "But you can't take it into court. I'll take it, and you can have it back when you leave."

I went upstairs to wait for my case to start for the day, and after about ten minutes, the Guard came to find me. "You'll have to come with me, Sir." He said.

Oh shit.

He took me downstairs and "handed me off" to the Court's Liason Police Officer.

Long to short, I was almost charged with carrying an offensive weapon in public.

I didn't know the damn thing was illegal! It's only 2 inches long for god's sake!


Ho hum.... I guess security does work in some buildings...
Fresno Bob
On the flip side of the issue, I once forgot I had a small knife on my person and ended up taking it onto a plane.
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (Westiex)
The book is called 'The Art of Deception' with a byline of controlling the human element of security. Its by Kevin Mitnick who was popular with the press ages ago for the fact that he was heavily into social engineering - that is getting people to give you the info that you want, rather then breaking into the place or hacking it.

Social engineering, mind you, also helps with the decking.

ISBN nubmer is 0-7645-4280-X

This book is a must read for any Shadowrun player/GM. Unquestionably.

It's chock full of real-world examples of social engineering. My favorite was the guy who managed to hack the phone system while in federal prison, using just the "incoming calls only" phone that was supplied for prisoners to receive calls from their lawyers.
nezumi
QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0)
People become panicky when you post SWAT officers in the Metro or park Humvees on every major intersection in Downtown (to name a couple of RL examples) and stop thinking they are safe at all.

Crimson, you're not a fellow DeeCee resident, are you?

In general, I think some good points have been made.

Security should be passive. I grabbed the White Room from MJLBB and I set it so the lab has a radio transmitter. Should the nanobots or their carrying cases not receive that transmission, they self destruct. After all, nanobots are cheap. The system isn't connected to the matrix and never will be. Everything is sent by courier (and unlike Johnny Mnemonic, the super secret key is NOT faxed.)

Security should observe everything. RFID, biometrics, security cameras, login names... It should know who went where when (and if possibly, why). The matrix system has an IDS, and now the building does too. The added benefit, employers know when their employees are working and when they're slacking.

Security should generally be non-lethal. After all, if someone is caught trying to sneak out with your big secret, you want to know which of your competition is trying to sabotage you! Best case scenario, you now have a star witness for court, worst case you at least know who to keep an eye on and what he did to get in. Plus, non-lethal can usually be undone (oops, didn't mean to taser the CEO. But it's better than the alternative...)

Security should generally come from the lowest bidder. If drones are cheaper in the long run with about the same effectiveness, use drones. If RFID costs twice as much as normal passcodes, but increases efficiency because the employees can be put to better work, use RFID.

Security should be subtle. Of course, security guards at the door should be there to lend a sense of safety, but beyond that, it should be invisible. Fewer passwords, fewer codes. Cameras are hidden, tracking devices are invisible. The less the cattle- I mean employees have to interact with the security, and the less they see of it, the better.

And of course, when the CEO starts cutting expenses, he'll cut the areas that don't seem to be able to give the most Return On Investment. Security, sense it's return is a lack of loss, is an easy one to cut. So unless the CEO remembers what he stands to loose, the security increases revenue elsewhere (like employee efficiency), or security regular makes a show of the bad guys they catch, security is more likely to be 'streamlined'.
kevyn668
QUOTE (Voorhees)
On the flip side of the issue, I once forgot I had a small knife on my person and ended up taking it onto a plane.

Pre- or post 911?
Crimsondude 2.0
QUOTE (hahnsoo)
QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0 @ Mar 11 2005, 06:50 PM)
But ultimately, my point was that it was a pointless and unnecessary exagerration to describe people in 2060 as being so disenchanted and dissociated from reality that they would do something like lock their grandmothers in a burning fire rather than risk their security clearance at a job that might not be around tomorrow.

However, I could see it being the fault of sheer stupidity on the part of said grandsiblings.

Touche.

QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
In every store hang black eyes, can you feel them watching?  At every exit stand watchtowers, smooth and sleek, that sound the alarm when raiders come.

Ha! That reminds me of how an unofficial survey I did once indicated that there were more security cameras per square meter at Wal-Mart than at any casino I've been to.

QUOTE (Drain Brain)
Long to short, I was almost charged with carrying an offensive weapon in public.

Today also happened to be an abnormal day for court security, though.

QUOTE (nezumi)
QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0 @ Mar 11 2005, 06:50 PM)
People become panicky when you post SWAT officers in the Metro or park Humvees on every major intersection in Downtown (to name a couple of RL examples) and stop thinking they are safe at all.

Crimson, you're not a fellow DeeCee resident, are you?

I was. Haven't you read my posts to the "Shadows of DeeCee"-type threads (this and the old forums)?

It interesting that in the last two months Washington users have come crawling out of the woodworks, but when I was living there... Nooooooooooooo....
Fresno Bob
QUOTE (Kevyn668)
Pre- or post 911?


Pre, so I guess it doesn't count. Still, they should have caught it. I mean, it was in my pocket.
Crimsondude 2.0
That's the funniest thing I've read all day.
fistandantilus4.0
I used to work as a stage tech doing corp shows all over the place in Silicon Valley. I definitely agree that in most places, as long as you look liek you belong there, no one will bother questioning it.

On the flip side, now I work in an office building. Have these dandy little badges that you have to use to get through any door. But everyone holds them open for total strangers. Except for every two months when they decide to crack down on security and have managers watch the doors for two who9le days and everyone forgets.

It's probably a safe assumption that things are a lot more strict in SR. I worked for AMEX for a while and went through all of their "security", but they of course never once had a break in.

In SR, shadowruns do happen, so all those occasional fits of tight security, would most likely be the norm instead of the exception.

'Course, there were no auto guns where I worked.
(that I know of)
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0)
Ha! That reminds me of how an unofficial survey I did once indicated that there were more security cameras per square meter at Wal-Mart than at any casino I've been to.

Elaborate on this, please. What kind of survey are you talking about?
Survey as in "I asked a few friends of mine who work in the security camera repair industry a few questions, and they all separately indicated that a typical casino has X security cameras, and a typical Wal-Mart has n(a number bigger than X)."
OR
Survey as in "I went in the place and did a visual survey of all the security cameras I could see."

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