Last run I GMed was a small affair, 2 runners. Long story short, both ended up in a DocWagon hospital in the intensive care unit. One was having a leg replaced. Using the cost table in the BBB, taking into account hospital stays, procedures, HTR fees, etc...

One runner ended up 57,400 in the hole.

The other ended up a mere 32,400 in debt.

So with outstanding bills that they can't pay, the runners are given an offer for a little special side work for DocWagon. The runners decline. So as it stands, they are both in debt to Docwagon and have arranged to make payments over time.

One runner (Mr. 57k) has a basic contract. The other (Mr. 32k) has a gold. With these (in my opinion) huge debts in place, would there be any sort of suspended service or limitations on their Docwagon contracts or anything?
I am assuming they would get the same service as usual (after all, they can't pay if they die) but I was wondering if anyone else had runners go into debt like this before. If so, what were the circumstances, and how did they take care of it?

Currently, the two in question are working 2 day jobs, for 80 hours a week, and plan on using a sick day (or company time...yep, gonna use this ) every once in a while to complete a run.

I'd say the contracts remain good it's just that next time they get shot up when they undergo treatment that DocWagon contacts Tamanous organleggers who extract payment by removing cyberware and organs to meet the payment owed. If you want to play really mean they might just offer the debt to another company who either implant cranial bombs or use simsense reprogramming to ge them to agree.

I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to be reasonable. Believe it or not, this is the first time I've seen runners go "red" so I'm a little lost.

I've seen them with not quite enough to get this or that, but that's a bit different. It wasn't like Docwagon was going to let them die because they couldn't pay right then.

DocWagon has material samples of the two (for tracking and even ritual sorcery), but as long as they are making payments and interest I don't see a problem.

That's a little more altruistic than I would expect DocWagon to be, but that's just me. (edit: I was responding to Frosty's last comment, not Kanada's)

If you wanna make a plot out of this, maybe there's a talented decker who could erase that debt for them, make it disappear. Only now he wants a favor done. At least that brings it away from the realm of 'suicide mission'.

Maybe the DocWagon boss who is responsible for collecting the debt hires bounty hunters to chase them down and bring them in. Then he freezes them and puts them on display in his palace on Tatooine.... never mind.

But maybe this DW branch has something on the sly with the mob, who offers to collect the debt.

Maybe a fixer knows they need cash desperately, and asks them to sell info on a longtime friend/contact? Or maybe he needs them for a job that isn't particularily dangerous, but somehow is really degrading or embarassing.

Maybe DW will waive the fees if they sign on to be guineapigs for a new drug or cyberware.

I don't see why these debts are somehow treated differently than normal debts. People who require massive emergency surgery are expected to run up huge debts, which are paid off over time with interest. Why would DocWagon treat these two differently when they've already put huge amounts down on the equipment?

And they have it in the form of ritual links. Why would they have installed the new leg if they thought it was a problem? These are paying customers, SIN or no (and even SINless have rights): they are the types of people that allow DocWagon to function.

If I was dock wagon I would be tempted not to provide the service to shadow runners, and how many sinless that are not shadow runners can afford it.

But the books say they do offer contracts to shadow runners.

First thing I would have done differently is not installed the replacement limbs until after a payment plan had been arranged. Due to the high risk industry they work in long term payment plans are not desirable but with high enough interest it would be workable.

Dock wagon dose have ritual links to them and generally you don’t want to frag of somebody with ritual links, hiring a Decker could get you in trouble. Other than that until they default on the terms of the loan (or leave without agreeing to one) there will be no real repercussions.

My question is why did they refuse the offer of a job to cover the fees.

Edward

Correct me if Im wrong, but dosent Doc Wagon have a medical plan style system? Sure, hit them up for the HRT (though the gold gives them at least one free) and co pays for things, but Im not totally convinced that the patients are libel for ALL expenses in that case.

This is moderately off-topic, but it reminded me of something I wanted to comment on. Where's the debt in daily life? Credit cards are a financial fixture in society today, what happened to them? No one goes into debt anymore? Sure, you can get a bank loan for a new car or a house, but what if you want to get the latest cyberterminal? Or maybe there's a new simsense deck that's 20% More Real Than Reality™? Is everyone expected to save up the cash? Do deckers make credit card fraud too easy? Can I possibly finish this paragraph with yet another question?

Considering the costs of modern medicine 57k is pretty cheap. I doubt docwagon would care about such a small amount so long as they continue to make payments. If the payments stop the contract will be canceled but probably nothing more. It isn't worth the cost of tracking the runners down and probably getting nothing from them when Docwagon can just write off the loss on its next tax return. They'd probably save more from taxes than they would have made if the bill was paid in full upfront.

If push comes to shove the debtors wouldn't get mercinaries busting down their door. Instead a wagemage would politely wake up to them and give them notice that they are being sued. If they don't show upfor court they automaticly lose. If they don't pay after that then Lone Star will be busting down their doors and Docwagon still gets its tax break.


It just goes to show, private medical insurance is important.

Edit: It is also common practice for corporations to sell debts to groups that specialize in collection. The corporation gets some money up front and never has to worry about it again. The collection business gets even more money when they force you to pay the full debt with interest.

Well I always prefer to use the system of 3 strikes for situations like those. If this is there first and only blackmark with Docwagon I'd only suggest making the "Do a job for us" offer again with a little more emphasis however the job I'd send them on would be more or less a cakewalk with the worst they walk away with is minor public embarrassment. If they pass it up oh well, no big deal. Befor we get to the third time I think my players would have called thier Fixers, lot easier to be in debt with Fixer then with Docwagon. If they decide to bypass this option and then wind up for the third time on Docwagon's table while still in debt make the job offer again but this time Right Before The Operation. If they whine and moan about it remind them how many times they've been here and what they could've done to improve thier situation and simply chose not to. My two cents may seem too nice to some and too mean to others but that's a fairest way I can see of resolving said situation.

The way I see it, Shadowrunners are at a bit of a risk for being able to pay their debts from DW's perspective (After all, didn't they end up in the ICU last time ).

So yeah, SR style collection agencies. Either that, or jsut high interest. Put some heat on them for a while, and if they can demonstrate an ability and willingness to pay, then cut them some slack. If not.....better hope they don't depend on that shiny little bracelet next time they get all shot up. Just pick up what's left of them and send it into a chop shop for the cyber. ultimate repo.

but yeah, cut them some slack. No reason to come down o nthem hard until they give them a reason. Once again, they have the ritual links. They can wait. Not like they can really hide.

What was the job they where offered. I don’t think I have ever seen a run turned down.

Edward

If DocWagon know they are runner and they are in debt, the proposition to do a mission to settle the bill should have been an offer that they can't refuse.

AA corp didn't get where they are by being softer than the mafia.

They didn't even hear what the run was. One of the bigwigs who's in charge of one of Docwagon's competitors (GM story arc) is a good friend of the team, so they didn't want to risk having to work against him.

Oh, isn't that sweet. They don't want to hurt their buddy. Aww...

But it's not half as sweet as Docwagon accepting no for an answer...

"Listen you bunch of screw up, you are in our debt and you can't pay. You will do this run or else we toss you on your ass in the street and tip the guys who shot you up in the first place. You will do what I tell you to do and if you deviate from the plan I will have my best mages ritual link your ass into orbit. Am I being clear?"

It's not like Docwagon has no leverage here.

If they still want to refuse this run, it'll take a lot more than saying "No". It'll be an adventure in itself. Outmaneuver Docwagon surveillance, find protection from the ritual and then find leverage against the executive who wanted to force them to make that run... fun stuff.

I think the "money" in your credstick includes available credit.

I remember reading somewhere that the 'cred' in 'credstick' indicated that it represented a combination of available funds and credit. The paragraph went on to comment on how the digitization of money has blurred the line between how much money you have and how much money you have access to. Can anyone remember where this is?

Even now, I can access my debit and credit accounts from the same card, and with direct payment to my account, the only difference between credit and cash is that one of them demands some interest payments. If I had to determine how much "money" I had to buy something, I think I'd automatically factor in how much credit I have.

If you go along with this, it kind of implies that DocWagon wouldn't have provided the service because it exceeded the runners' credit limits.

But anyway, if I were you, Frosty, I'd start bringing the hammer down on these guys. Knock knock..."REPO MAN!"

Yeah, but that's on personal credsticks. Most shadowrunners deal in certified credsticks - which are more like prepaid creditcards / virtual moneybag.

If you have a real SIN, any purchases you make with it is going to leave a paper trail right to you.

If you use forged SINs, any time you use there's a chance your credstick rating won't beat the reader's reading. I would never use one for buying stuff - I would save it's usefullness for when I need an actual ID (renting cars, buying plane tickets, etc.)