Ever wonder why some equipment is so hard to get? Have you noticed that a starting character can have a LAW. I don't know about you, but I think the current availability numbers are a bit off.

My examples... A character looking for high explosive weaponry can easily get his hands on anti tank weapons. Last time I checked, the military kept a close eye on these things. Case in point, a Great Dragon ATGM (Anti-Tank Guided missile) has an availability of 8 and is super cheep in comparison to a mortor. Mortors by the way can be built with cheep tools in your garage... but Guided missiles are another story.

Ever wonder why third world countries today have lots of RPG's and mortors, but no anti-tank guided missile systems? Think about it.

What... you want another example? Okay. Ever wonder why any magician in his right mind would ever enchant anything? Let me tell you. It costs more to enchant new foci then it does to buy them off the street. Plus, since all foci have a simple availability (Power Foci is a 6 for example) and that number never goes up despite the force. So if you have the NuYen, go get yourself a power foci 12, its only a target number 6 to find on the street.

But wait... enchanting a power foci 12 starts at a target number of 23 and can go up up up and take you months to complete and can cost you more karma to bond with it to boot.

Lets hope in Shadowrun 4 the playtesters not only take a look at the basic rules, but how power gamers and rule mongers (like me) can take advantage of them and bend the system.

I'm hoping that this thread can point out the the playtesters all the equipment that should be harder or easier to get. Maintain game balance, but lets not hand out the cookie store or make things impossible.

The IRA is organised crime, and they certainly know how to use mortars.
And surface to air missiles, HMGs, LAWs, RPGs, etc, etc, ad nauseam.

They don't use them much in their criminal endeavours these days - not that they ever did much - but mortar attacks on RUC barracks were a fairly common thing back when I was younger. Fortunately, not any more.

Organised crime not using mortars might have something to do with the fact that they're not really that practical for protection rackets or leaning on drug dealers...

It's not like you can afford a high CEP when you're trying to collect protection money, y'know?

Personally I'd like the baseline character to be more in keeping with the 85 point ganger character types rather than just short of being prime runners. Consequently high end cybernetics should be relatively rare at start. With cyberdecks going away I don't really see the need to have as archetypes start out with 1,000,000 nuyen at the beginning anymore. Further you can just increase the base point cost for adepts if people start twinking out with adepts instead of samurai characters.

"Gimme yer money, chump"
"Hah! What is that? It's not even a real gun? Is that a laser pointer? What kind of mugger are you? You don't scare me!"
"Dis my friend, is a lasor desinator. My buddy 5 blocks down is manning a mortar with anti-per-so-nel rounds. If u do not comply to my orders, he will begin pummeling this positions with mortar rounds. If dat dun work, my other friend in dat plane up dere will carpet bomb this alley. Now give me yer money!"

Yeah, but, to be fair, LAWs are potentially more useful than mortars in an urban situation.

Okay... FUBOR was a typo... but it got your attention

Compaired to a LAW though, you have to be good to use a morter. A LAW is much more point-and-click, where a morter is more, fire-adjust, fire-adjust, fire-adjust.
Not that I have first hand experance in such things. Going on a hunch and all.

That's true. I managed to hit the tank dummy square in the turret ring at 100 meters the first time I fired a practice rocket LAW, so it can't be too difficult at least against an immobile target. But that ease-of-use isn't enough to make the LAW a worthwhile MOUT weapon, because of its very weak performance against any kind of target other than light armored vehicles.

Modern fire control gear (laser rangefinders, etc) ought to make accurate LoS fire at short ranges quite simple with mortars. I wouldn't want to try it in urban terrain through a separate spotter and no computer fire control, though.

Beyond All Reason is another good one. It implies that to repair it, you'll have to crack a Repair Manual that's filled with Things Mechanics Weren't Meant To Know.

Can be "... all recognition", "... all repair" or even "... all reason". Google says recognition is most common (4040 vs 1760 vs 105 hits for "fubar 'fucked up beyond all [recognition/repair/reason]'").

I prefer the "Tango & Cash" version personally.

@AE:

As to Mortars in urban combat...why stop with a Math SPU? Stick in a GPS unit and an orientation system as well. Then things start to get to be real fun...

Demosthenes:
...with 3D-mapsofts of the surrounding area, a direct feed from your favorite weather forecasts. And if you happen to have a really big budget (and you probably do, if you can score the Avail 18(!) mortar rounds), use a spotter /w a target designator and seeker rounds exclusively.

There are a few things I would like to see out of the hands of newbie players. Specifically the Ares Alpha. With the extra recoil comp. why would any self respecting Sam start with any other A.R.? Or even a LMG for that matter?

The Savalette Guardian is another gun that is a wee bit too powerful for a starting gun.

Who know maybe all this equipment that everybody wants revamped will be obsolete.

I'm thinking
9m Charge pistols
Render rifles
Stutter Pistols....

The Render requires manipulation of gravity, which, I'm guessing, is not gonna happen.

Ah, Alternity, where didst thou go?

actually that was the mass pistol. That was why i left it off

the render rifle was basically a flechette shotgun.


/edit nope you're right it has something to do with gravity

The mass pistol was the one that shot singularities (yikes!). You're thinking of the autoflechette shotgun.

That's the one!!!!!

oh well obsolete game anyway....