We've all built or encountered those special places in Seattle, the kind that stand out in your memory.
Maybe it's the elf-poser noodle vendor at the corner, the girl who watches all the high-profile trid media types pass by her everyday while she keeps dreaming of the businesses she's going to make happen and somehow never quite manages to get off the ground.
Maybe it's the little Italian restaurant with the checked red and white linen tablecloths on the patio tables (clipped, to protect them from the wind) which serves only real food and the very freshest (and charges appropriately) - which is always available because one of the people with a silent ownership interest happens to be a Mafia don who delights in cooking (real cooking! not that nuked heated-up stuff) and who specialises in smuggling in food.
Maybe it's the New Age Tir-Celtic metal thrash bar whose clientele (although mostly wannabes) does include the occasional true music celebrity, whose two co-owners are retired shadowrunners and current fixers specialising in the entertainment industry (they were into the edgy bands all their lives and had always wanted to open up a place like this) and whose former partner (in intense leather and piercings and a shaved lightly-spiked dyed-bone yellow blonde hairdo) runs a stable of escort-bodyguards for the celebrities (all wired for video and sound) and deals in the information she draws into her net.
Let's create that social map of Seattle together ...
Full Version: Seattle landmarks
The Smashed Teacup is my favorite bar in Seattle. Its owned by one Vladimir Cheskovii, a Formori Troll. He was a member of the Russian Mafia untill he ended up stranded in Seattle after both the Yaks and the Mob moved them out.. Forcibly. Left to his own he's cultivated "The Smashed Teacup" as the last foothold of the Russian Mafia's interest. Its a upperclass bar that practically caters to Shadowrunners (for a price). Black Market goods and 40 year old scotch abound. Elegant bar whose patrons tend to be metahuman, but humans are common enough. Features seating for both Trolls and Dwarfs.
Krazy Hakim's is definately an interesting brothel too. Located in the more desolate portion of the Barrens likes an inconsipicuous little two story brownstone with a tattered sign out front "Krazy Hakim's" Inside you find several broken tables and a rotting bar. Behind the bar sits Krazy Hakim himself. Then he spouts his time honored bargain "Two Yen(Coppers), Two **ores, Two Minutes." (Coppers for other fantasy games) He continues after drawing a deep breath, "If you can find cheaper pussy elsewhere f*** it. [This is a favorite of an old GM of mine, please remember its just humor and dont take it out on me...]
Krazy Hakim's is definately an interesting brothel too. Located in the more desolate portion of the Barrens likes an inconsipicuous little two story brownstone with a tattered sign out front "Krazy Hakim's" Inside you find several broken tables and a rotting bar. Behind the bar sits Krazy Hakim himself. Then he spouts his time honored bargain "Two Yen(Coppers), Two **ores, Two Minutes." (Coppers for other fantasy games) He continues after drawing a deep breath, "If you can find cheaper pussy elsewhere f*** it. [This is a favorite of an old GM of mine, please remember its just humor and dont take it out on me...]
| QUOTE (phelious fogg) |
| Krazy Hakim's is definately an interesting brothel too. Located in the more desolate portion of the Barrens likes an inconsipicuous little two story brownstone with a tattered sign out front "Krazy Hakim's" Inside you find several broken tables and a rotting bar. Behind the bar sits Krazy Hakim himself. Then he spouts his time honored bargain "Two Yen(Coppers), Two **ores, Two Minutes." (Coppers for other fantasy games) He continues after drawing a deep breath, "If you can find cheaper pussy elsewhere f*** it. [This is a favorite of an old GM of mine, please remember its just humor and dont take it out on me...] |
Shouldn't Crazy Hakim be played by Cheech Marin instead of your GM?
| QUOTE (Adam) |
| [Full Seattle 2063 coming October.] |
*Cough*Heard that before.*Cough*
Fortunately I'd seen that site before, Adam - the computers I'm on now tend to freeze up at the mere thought of it.
And which is not to say (of course!) that any single description could be completely comprehensive. Six months down the road, who's to say whether the place is still owned by the same people ... or (particularly relevant in a shadowrunning context) still standing? And there's always the unseen alleyways, those suburbs-to-be, the Ork Underground ...
Club Aurora
There is no standard template for this one. It's more or less based on what might once have been a Harland & Wolff "Classique" yacht chassis (is that the correct term for ships?), but it's been tugged and pulled and stretched almost out of recognition. The yacht has a total of four above-water floors, plus another one above the bilge. In addition to what's described below, the bottom-most above-water floor holds the crew quarters and rigger/security centre, and the floor below that contains engine, ventilation, water tanks, and most of the other mechanical requireds. (Electrical is run from the top floor.) Edit: Air support is surveillance drones and an amphibious Dragon run out of a warehouse built half over the Sound. Weapons support won't be specified here Club Aurora is registered as a private corporation and has extraterritoriality.
Owners: Juliana d'Erethiel, Kay Tremblay
>>>>> Juliana's the elf chica who used to anchor the Seattle Spy newscasts a couple years back. Kay's an odder story, she doesn't seem to exist until a year back. She's spent half of that year in the Tir, though she's as human as they come. She's also a mage, she's masked but sometimes you can spot her familiar hanging around. The two of them trade off as hostesses. There's another silent owner, but I haven't been able to track down who. The shuttle boats are said to be named for the three of them.
- Piper's Son
>>>>> That might explain the heavy warding on the place, but not the water spirits.
- Magister
>>>>> Everyone on that fragging boat's got shares in it. I used to run with one of them. Toronado used to set records running the Spine through Denver. Who'd a thunk he'd make a clubbie rigger?
- Squat
>>>>> Nice place. Expensive place. Some guys have all the luck.
- Bitter
>>>>> All's not as it seems here, boys and girls.
- Captain Chaos
Club Aurora sits anchored in the Sound, just a short boat ride from its dock in one of the ritziest parts of the Seattle waterfront. At first glance this would seem to be an unusual placement for a swanky restaurant and nightclub, since every one of its patrons must be ferried in by one of the club's two shuttle boats. Although very new, the place has already acquired quite the reputation for good food and good original music. Til es Hault has been known to turn up there on occasion, although it's much more common to encounter talented unknowns, newcomers to the local scene. There's always a lineup waiting to board despite the club's no-tolerance weapons policy.
>>>>> "No tolerance weapons policy"?
- Squat
>>>>> They make everyone check their weapons and all foci at their dock office before boarding the shuttle.
- Captain Chaos
>>>>> You have got to be fragging me! Ain't no way no one can get all my gear away from me. Even if you got to tux it, there's all get-all can be hid, ain't no scanner gonna get my blades offa me!
- Term
>>>>> Grammar is your friend, Term. Anyway, as I understand it, they ask you while you're still on their dock to hand over whatever you're carrying, and they'll store it for you there until you leave. If you don't, you don't have to get on. But they're very good at finding the hidden stuff. I haven't been able to get anything past them yet.
- Piper's Son
>>>>> Didn't you say there were three boats, Piper's Son?
- Tank
>>>>> The shuttles never leave the water except for drydock maintenance. There's at least one other boat, a hopped-up Nightrunner. Wouldn't never known it was there if our rigger hadn't cut its wake by accident.
- Piper's Son
>>>>> And what were you doing out there that night anyway?
- Teases The Cat
>>>>> Fishing.
- Piper's Son
>>>>> Be sure to save some for me.
- Teases The Cat
The restaurant is located in the glass-enclosed bow of the main deck, the nightclub in the stern and the upper deck. A large central atrium and spiral staircase connect the two floors. Although the yacht has no open deck area, the roof of the upper deck is made entirely of one-way glass. A magical effect dims the surrounding city lights so that the sunset and stars come across brilliantly. Even when the entire area is surrounded by storm, a localised magical effect keeps the sky around the Aurora clear.
>>>>> Elves have a way of creating beauty in whatever they craft.
- Elrond
>>>>> Localised magical effect my ass. Someone on that boat has a few local nature spirits up their sleeve.
- Shrike
>>>>> Mages can't summon nature spirits.
- Tank
>>>>> No, they can't.
- Piper's Son
Regular hours are from sunset to sunrise. On Mondays and occasionally on other days, the club and restaurant are closed. Call ahead for reservations.
>>>>> That's when its real business is conducted.
- Piper's Son
>>>>> I heard they rent out the place as a meet. The boat plan I scrounged up shows utility placements for what could be staterooms on the deck below the restaurant.
- Shrike
>>>>> Honto? That would be one pricy run.
- Kensai
>>>>> They don't do any of the fixing themselves, but if a group of professional runners wants to meet a Johnson on absolutely secure neutral ground, I've heard that's the place to go in Seattle. They'll bring in both the team and the Johnson from whatever location they wish to the yacht and return them later, and they'll guarantee the security of all involved for the duration.
- Talon
>>>>> They enforce the no weapons, no foci policy during their meets too.
- Piper's Son
>>>>> And the runners go for that? What do they do about the cyber?
- Squat
>>>>> Never needed to find out. I'd wonder more about the Johnsons, but yes, they go for that. Squat, you said earlier that everyone working at the club was a shareholder. Do you think they might all be former runners?
- Piper's Son
>>>>> I know two of them are for certain.
- Captain Chaos
Slight editing for format and added information.
And which is not to say (of course!) that any single description could be completely comprehensive. Six months down the road, who's to say whether the place is still owned by the same people ... or (particularly relevant in a shadowrunning context) still standing?
And there's always the unseen alleyways, those suburbs-to-be, the Ork Underground ...Club Aurora
There is no standard template for this one. It's more or less based on what might once have been a Harland & Wolff "Classique" yacht chassis (is that the correct term for ships?), but it's been tugged and pulled and stretched almost out of recognition. The yacht has a total of four above-water floors, plus another one above the bilge. In addition to what's described below, the bottom-most above-water floor holds the crew quarters and rigger/security centre, and the floor below that contains engine, ventilation, water tanks, and most of the other mechanical requireds. (Electrical is run from the top floor.) Edit: Air support is surveillance drones and an amphibious Dragon run out of a warehouse built half over the Sound. Weapons support won't be specified here
Club Aurora is registered as a private corporation and has extraterritoriality.Owners: Juliana d'Erethiel, Kay Tremblay
>>>>> Juliana's the elf chica who used to anchor the Seattle Spy newscasts a couple years back. Kay's an odder story, she doesn't seem to exist until a year back. She's spent half of that year in the Tir, though she's as human as they come. She's also a mage, she's masked but sometimes you can spot her familiar hanging around. The two of them trade off as hostesses. There's another silent owner, but I haven't been able to track down who. The shuttle boats are said to be named for the three of them.
- Piper's Son
>>>>> That might explain the heavy warding on the place, but not the water spirits.
- Magister
>>>>> Everyone on that fragging boat's got shares in it. I used to run with one of them. Toronado used to set records running the Spine through Denver. Who'd a thunk he'd make a clubbie rigger?
- Squat
>>>>> Nice place. Expensive place. Some guys have all the luck.
- Bitter
>>>>> All's not as it seems here, boys and girls.
- Captain Chaos
Club Aurora sits anchored in the Sound, just a short boat ride from its dock in one of the ritziest parts of the Seattle waterfront. At first glance this would seem to be an unusual placement for a swanky restaurant and nightclub, since every one of its patrons must be ferried in by one of the club's two shuttle boats. Although very new, the place has already acquired quite the reputation for good food and good original music. Til es Hault has been known to turn up there on occasion, although it's much more common to encounter talented unknowns, newcomers to the local scene. There's always a lineup waiting to board despite the club's no-tolerance weapons policy.
>>>>> "No tolerance weapons policy"?
- Squat
>>>>> They make everyone check their weapons and all foci at their dock office before boarding the shuttle.
- Captain Chaos
>>>>> You have got to be fragging me! Ain't no way no one can get all my gear away from me. Even if you got to tux it, there's all get-all can be hid, ain't no scanner gonna get my blades offa me!
- Term
>>>>> Grammar is your friend, Term. Anyway, as I understand it, they ask you while you're still on their dock to hand over whatever you're carrying, and they'll store it for you there until you leave. If you don't, you don't have to get on. But they're very good at finding the hidden stuff. I haven't been able to get anything past them yet.
- Piper's Son
>>>>> Didn't you say there were three boats, Piper's Son?
- Tank
>>>>> The shuttles never leave the water except for drydock maintenance. There's at least one other boat, a hopped-up Nightrunner. Wouldn't never known it was there if our rigger hadn't cut its wake by accident.
- Piper's Son
>>>>> And what were you doing out there that night anyway?
- Teases The Cat
>>>>> Fishing.
- Piper's Son
>>>>> Be sure to save some for me.
- Teases The Cat
The restaurant is located in the glass-enclosed bow of the main deck, the nightclub in the stern and the upper deck. A large central atrium and spiral staircase connect the two floors. Although the yacht has no open deck area, the roof of the upper deck is made entirely of one-way glass. A magical effect dims the surrounding city lights so that the sunset and stars come across brilliantly. Even when the entire area is surrounded by storm, a localised magical effect keeps the sky around the Aurora clear.
>>>>> Elves have a way of creating beauty in whatever they craft.
- Elrond
>>>>> Localised magical effect my ass. Someone on that boat has a few local nature spirits up their sleeve.
- Shrike
>>>>> Mages can't summon nature spirits.
- Tank
>>>>> No, they can't.
- Piper's Son
Regular hours are from sunset to sunrise. On Mondays and occasionally on other days, the club and restaurant are closed. Call ahead for reservations.
>>>>> That's when its real business is conducted.
- Piper's Son
>>>>> I heard they rent out the place as a meet. The boat plan I scrounged up shows utility placements for what could be staterooms on the deck below the restaurant.
- Shrike
>>>>> Honto? That would be one pricy run.
- Kensai
>>>>> They don't do any of the fixing themselves, but if a group of professional runners wants to meet a Johnson on absolutely secure neutral ground, I've heard that's the place to go in Seattle. They'll bring in both the team and the Johnson from whatever location they wish to the yacht and return them later, and they'll guarantee the security of all involved for the duration.
- Talon
>>>>> They enforce the no weapons, no foci policy during their meets too.
- Piper's Son
>>>>> And the runners go for that? What do they do about the cyber?
- Squat
>>>>> Never needed to find out. I'd wonder more about the Johnsons, but yes, they go for that. Squat, you said earlier that everyone working at the club was a shareholder. Do you think they might all be former runners?
- Piper's Son
>>>>> I know two of them are for certain.
- Captain Chaos
Slight editing for format and added information.
One of my GM's set us up with a fixer/dealer-type contact some of character's would use to get gear from. He ran a shop out of the Barren's and boy was it a sight.
It was a small converted grocery/convenience store, although it hadn't been coverted much. All of the weaponry and gear was placed out on shelves like you'd see things at the Stuffer Shack. The fixer contact was a Satyr of all things, with a crazy and demented disposition. He didn't have the best prices either, but he almost always had what we were looking for.
Security in the place was very out of the way. There were some very very well concealed miniguns mounted in the ceiling. Most of the characters couldn't ever notice them and there was one on site security guard. A troll who never appeared to move and was always looking at a magazine or comic of some sort.
The thing is that troll was either hopped up on load of chrome or loads of magic juju. I don't think the GM ever gave him stats, but we got the impression we didn't ever want to try anything there by such queues that even though he never moved somehow the pages in his magazine would different when we'd look and things like that.
Quite a fun little place to pick up a few clips of ammo or some such things.
It was a small converted grocery/convenience store, although it hadn't been coverted much. All of the weaponry and gear was placed out on shelves like you'd see things at the Stuffer Shack. The fixer contact was a Satyr of all things, with a crazy and demented disposition. He didn't have the best prices either, but he almost always had what we were looking for.
Security in the place was very out of the way. There were some very very well concealed miniguns mounted in the ceiling. Most of the characters couldn't ever notice them and there was one on site security guard. A troll who never appeared to move and was always looking at a magazine or comic of some sort.
The thing is that troll was either hopped up on load of chrome or loads of magic juju. I don't think the GM ever gave him stats, but we got the impression we didn't ever want to try anything there by such queues that even though he never moved somehow the pages in his magazine would different when we'd look and things like that.
Quite a fun little place to pick up a few clips of ammo or some such things.
Huh, I recently sat down and fleshed out the quarter of Ravenna, Downtown, for an upcoming game I hope will start soon. Half of it is in English, as I habitually slipped into it as I described the little places. The other half is in German, realizing my players don't speak English that well 
Don't know if I can post it, it's a bit big, in .doc format...
Don't know if I can post it, it's a bit big, in .doc format...
Well, I had been hoping we'd eventually come up with threads for each of the various commonly-shared Shadowrun areas. Go for it! (or e-mail it to me as an attachment in whatever language(s) - I'd be grateful!)
That's kinda funny, I just spent the last 2 days putting together a profile of Puyallup for a campaign I'm in...
Sooooo much work to do.
Sunday.
Sooooo much work to do.
Sunday.
| QUOTE (Talia Invierno) |
| Fortunately I'd seen that site before, Adam - the computers I'm on now tend to freeze up at the mere thought of it. |
Uh, what does this mean? It's a simple PDF file.
Probably that straight viewing the PDF's screws with the computer, possibly due to it not being very powerful?
Talia: Have you tried right-clicking the links and saving them to your hard disk? Viewing saved documents is a hell of a lot easier than scrolling through on-line.
Talia: Have you tried right-clicking the links and saving them to your hard disk? Viewing saved documents is a hell of a lot easier than scrolling through on-line.
True ... but it's not my computer. For the foreseeable future I won't have independent Internet access - that explanation gets complicated, but has somewhat to do with the being broke commonly associated with trying to break into a writer's market - and the places with IE to which I have reasonable access are absolutely anal about downloads of any kind. (I'm the one frequently working through an antique Netscape programme ... which cuts out this site's revamped version almost completely.) Re PDFs: for some obscure reason no Internet-linked computer I have ever worked with seems to like Adobe files. The automatic pop-up asking if I want to check for updates somehow freezes up all the other screens, I don't know why.
On the plus side, at this time two years ago I would have been trying to access this site via a 486.
Thanks for the suggestions and attempted help though.
On the plus side, at this time two years ago I would have been trying to access this site via a 486.
Thanks for the suggestions and attempted help though.
Bah, I hate pdf's, currently with added intensity. Much prefer html, or even plain text.
The computer I am on right now sucks. It has too little disk space to update windows from 2000 service pack 0, and if Adobe has older versions of acrobat reader available anywhere it is burried deeply in their website, or on the net under tens of thousands of links to acrobat 6 which will not run without service pack 2. So to read pdf's I have to go dig up an install disk somwhere with and older version of acrobat and I don't know which disks have it.
If the files were just html, or rich text any computer from 5 years ago to 5000 years in the future would probably be able to read them much more quickly and easily.
Stupid pdf's.
The computer I am on right now sucks. It has too little disk space to update windows from 2000 service pack 0, and if Adobe has older versions of acrobat reader available anywhere it is burried deeply in their website, or on the net under tens of thousands of links to acrobat 6 which will not run without service pack 2. So to read pdf's I have to go dig up an install disk somwhere with and older version of acrobat and I don't know which disks have it.
If the files were just html, or rich text any computer from 5 years ago to 5000 years in the future would probably be able to read them much more quickly and easily.
Stupid pdf's.
We'll definately be posting a HTML version of Seattle 2063, although not at the same time as the PDF release.
I snagged the maps off Shadowlands and am in the process of remaking them, to include clear delineation for security zones, major highways and popular places and landmarks.
I emailed the boys down at Wizkids and asked them if they were cool with me snagging their maps because once I'm done, I plan to put them up on my buddys web page and email the link on this very lovely site, for your amusement.
Here's to hoping Wizkid doesn't object and to me not going mad before I'm done.
I have the lower half of Seattle done... 5 districts to go *twitch*
Sunday
'Twill be appreciated, Adam. (And Turtle, and Sunday_Gamer, and anyone else who is willing to share the results of their work, even via link.)
Isn't this always the catch-22 of creative RPGs though: creative GMs seeking resources, official release of geography/politics/environments/metaplot, somehow ... negating the need for personal creativity? Once something official has crept in, it's almost like most prefer to seek where the information is, rather than to come up with their own answers.
The moment you posted that link here, Adam, extremely useful springboard though it is: (with only an exception of a very few stubbornly creative souls out of how many GMs on this board?) active in-thread individual contribution toward a communal Seattle social scene was doomed.
Isn't this always the catch-22 of creative RPGs though: creative GMs seeking resources, official release of geography/politics/environments/metaplot, somehow ... negating the need for personal creativity? Once something official has crept in, it's almost like most prefer to seek where the information is, rather than to come up with their own answers.
The moment you posted that link here, Adam, extremely useful springboard though it is: (with only an exception of a very few stubbornly creative souls out of how many GMs on this board?) active in-thread individual contribution toward a communal Seattle social scene was doomed.
Uh, it's not like I posted a link to official information - I posted a link to a fan compilation of material, a compilation that was created out of the exact same "itch to scratch" mentality.
I've been mentally tossing around the idea of doing a [smaller] Seattle 2064, or perhaps going into more depth on some of the lesser explored districts sometime in 2004; I thought this thread would be a good place to guage interest in such future projects and get some Seattle 2063 feedback... and I figured I'd do so by posting 20 pages and over 40 seperate locations.
I've been mentally tossing around the idea of doing a [smaller] Seattle 2064, or perhaps going into more depth on some of the lesser explored districts sometime in 2004; I thought this thread would be a good place to guage interest in such future projects and get some Seattle 2063 feedback... and I figured I'd do so by posting 20 pages and over 40 seperate locations.
Talia, you've got some of the best thread ideas.
One established character in my game semi-retired and created a bar called the Evening Shadow. Eventually, the bar was taken over as a front by Orcs from the underground and has taken a definite slide downhill in decor, if not in liveliness. That particular place can be found only a few blocks from Loveland.
There's a ganger kid wandering around the fringes between Redmond and Belleview who has a reputation for defacing highway billboards to make them...how shall we say...racy.
On the run? No time to stop for a good meal? 'Drive Thru Sushi' now has over a hundred locations in the Seattle metroplex area!
Squatters havens:
Sky city: a group (otaku maybe) have taken over the top few floors of an abandoned office tower complex in Redmond and built a webbing of scaffolding connecting the buildings, where they live suspended thirty stories above ground.
The rail yard. The largest squatter haven in the plex, with over a thousand orks, trolls and humans living in the abandoned cars. Outskirts of Renton.
Sally is a fixer who makes use of what was once a sports plex for everything from a black market to rent-a-hideouts to a rigger 'truckstop'.
Outta time. More to come....
One established character in my game semi-retired and created a bar called the Evening Shadow. Eventually, the bar was taken over as a front by Orcs from the underground and has taken a definite slide downhill in decor, if not in liveliness. That particular place can be found only a few blocks from Loveland.
There's a ganger kid wandering around the fringes between Redmond and Belleview who has a reputation for defacing highway billboards to make them...how shall we say...racy.
On the run? No time to stop for a good meal? 'Drive Thru Sushi' now has over a hundred locations in the Seattle metroplex area!
Squatters havens:
Sky city: a group (otaku maybe) have taken over the top few floors of an abandoned office tower complex in Redmond and built a webbing of scaffolding connecting the buildings, where they live suspended thirty stories above ground.
The rail yard. The largest squatter haven in the plex, with over a thousand orks, trolls and humans living in the abandoned cars. Outskirts of Renton.
Sally is a fixer who makes use of what was once a sports plex for everything from a black market to rent-a-hideouts to a rigger 'truckstop'.
Outta time. More to come....
Ah, it's bite my tongue I have to not to spill over with every idea that jumps into my mind from reading everyone else's posts - and without those, there'd be no thread, and who knows if there'd be any ideas?
Perception of semi-officiality, Adam. Once in "print", there is a powerful perception of authority. (Or shall I start yet another poll, this time to see just how many Dumpshockers see the Supplemental as a bare half-step away from canon?) The general sigh isn't directed at you - or at anyone who creates, in any way ... just maybe at our own all-too-frequent unwillingness to think and create for ourselves and at just how quickly we tend to grasp at something already conceived and structured by another to replace our own possibilities. [/pet peeve]
Drive-through sushi bar, hmmm? That gives me an idea ...
For what it's worth, the names of the Italian restaurant and the New Age Tir-Celtic metal thrash bar mentioned in the first post are La Dolce Vita and The Black Boutique respectively.
Perception of semi-officiality, Adam. Once in "print", there is a powerful perception of authority. (Or shall I start yet another poll, this time to see just how many Dumpshockers see the Supplemental as a bare half-step away from canon?) The general sigh isn't directed at you - or at anyone who creates, in any way ... just maybe at our own all-too-frequent unwillingness to think and create for ourselves and at just how quickly we tend to grasp at something already conceived and structured by another to replace our own possibilities. [/pet peeve]
Drive-through sushi bar, hmmm? That gives me an idea ...
For what it's worth, the names of the Italian restaurant and the New Age Tir-Celtic metal thrash bar mentioned in the first post are La Dolce Vita and The Black Boutique respectively.
Talia, of course you could turn that argument round on yourself. Wouldn't you have liked to contribute to the Seattle 2063 netbook? Wouldn't you like to have seen some of your material in there too? Isn't it just cool when your ideas get that sheen of "officiality". In my case that was one of the reasons I began putting together the Intelligencer, not to mention submitting to TSS and FanPro itself.
There are a lot of reasons for GMs falling back on the cushion of pre-developed material, and many are perfectly reasonable. I know I did it for years until something just clicked and I started producing more material and ideas than I could ever use in my game. However even today I find myself digging through old TSSs and NAGEEs for a location I can use on the fly. I honestly think this crosspolinization is a really good thing if we can overcome the perception that some stuff is more valid than another just because it appears in print.
In fact after the EuroSB I have an entirely new perception on how this kind of weaving canon, others' ideas and our own together can be exceptionally rewarding. This applies just as much to locations as to plots and background elements.
Personally, I hope Adam goes ahead with the idea of doing a 2064 update on DSF. In fact I'd even suggest breaking it down by the various Districts of the Seattle Metroplex and allowing the DSFers to add even more material as well as further depth to the material in the 63 update.
There are a lot of reasons for GMs falling back on the cushion of pre-developed material, and many are perfectly reasonable. I know I did it for years until something just clicked and I started producing more material and ideas than I could ever use in my game. However even today I find myself digging through old TSSs and NAGEEs for a location I can use on the fly. I honestly think this crosspolinization is a really good thing if we can overcome the perception that some stuff is more valid than another just because it appears in print.
In fact after the EuroSB I have an entirely new perception on how this kind of weaving canon, others' ideas and our own together can be exceptionally rewarding. This applies just as much to locations as to plots and background elements.
Personally, I hope Adam goes ahead with the idea of doing a 2064 update on DSF. In fact I'd even suggest breaking it down by the various Districts of the Seattle Metroplex and allowing the DSFers to add even more material as well as further depth to the material in the 63 update.
| QUOTE (Talia Invierno) |
| Perception of semi-officiality, Adam. Once in "print", there is a powerful perception of authority. (Or shall I start yet another poll, this time to see just how many Dumpshockers see the Supplemental as a bare half-step away from canon?) |
Go for it.
FWIW, my stance on TSS and canon: It is, absolutely and without any doubt, not canon.
However, we do our best to adhere to canon; while articles, rules, and items may end up drifting away from canon, they should all be derived from canon - for example, an article about Seattle suddenly turning into a Free City could not just be about Seattle as a Free City, it must also be How Seattle Became a Free City.
This is actually the major reason why the final Seattle 2063 has been delayed for so long; the draft took a hard right somewhere before New Seattle and wasn't compatible enough for my tastes - to be useful, content must be relevant. This is also why we try hard to adhere to FanPro style - simple things like capitalizing words in the same manner as FanPro, formatting NPC writeups the same way, structuring adventures the same way. There may very well be better ways to do these things, but familiarity typically wins out over excellence; I like to think we manage both, though.
The time and effort we put into TSS shows in the quality, and that is why many people treat the end result with as much respect as they do. Anyone with the time, dedication, and skill could do something on par with TSS.
If anything I said gave the impression that I would rather the work hadn't been created, I'm sorry: that wasn't the intention at all. Nor was it my intention in the slightest to denigrate anyone's work. I'm all for compiled works and compiled references and dedicated styling. I love reading (and merging, and adapting) what others come up with - witness this thread! If persons here wish the buzz of "officiality", go for it!
| QUOTE |
| In fact after the EuroSB I have an entirely new perception on how this kind of weaving canon, others' ideas and our own together can be exceptionally rewarding. |
And that would be the ideal from my pov! Interweaving. Springboard. Not substituting for and replacing in its entirety.
And if anyone doubts that the second is more common than not - take a close look at the dates of the posts following your (first reply!) link, Adam. Here was TSS. After that, only one new addition - posted at exactly the same time as your post! - and after that ... no new creations. When I retrieved this thread a day later to add an original place (and try to turn the thread around, because for me it is about co-creation and sharing, and if I ever do get a piece written for the Intelligencer that will be why), it was already on the third page. It's obviously not because people didn't have the time to post that day (or else it certainly wouldn't have had two pages of new postings and new threads ahead of it). Was it because people don't want to share valued creations from their own world (and have them admired by all and sundry)?
Every GM has off-days. Relatively few have the time, creativity, dedication to come up with an entire world of detail on their own - and for such times compiled references are ideal, and for such reasons I will keep collecting anything and everything I can find. I appreciate it. I appreciate what's gone into it. And I'll inevitably amend and spindle everything to "fit" - very little with me stays as it came out of the box.
But I suspect that this thread has already neatly illustrated that compiled references can extremely easily (if fortunately not always) substitute for any personal wish to personally create. Wonderful for an RPG company which wishes to stay in business, of course ...
I tend to think that threads based around "Contribute your X here!" succeed or fail based on a) the interest level in producing that sort of material and b) the quality and depth of instructions given.
There are tons - metric f'ing tons - of locations available for Shadowrun throughout various books. I have absolutely no need to write another one as long as I have access to the 'net and to the sourcebooks I currently own. There's not much incentive to sit down and write more, especially if your work may just get lost to the void that is Old DSF Threads - seldom seen except for the most interested of searching parties.
Contrast that to the Seattle Intelligencer, which has defined goals, a specific niche, a driven collator, and a history of cool publications, and you can easily see why one of them attracts a lot more interest.
There are tons - metric f'ing tons - of locations available for Shadowrun throughout various books. I have absolutely no need to write another one as long as I have access to the 'net and to the sourcebooks I currently own. There's not much incentive to sit down and write more, especially if your work may just get lost to the void that is Old DSF Threads - seldom seen except for the most interested of searching parties.
Contrast that to the Seattle Intelligencer, which has defined goals, a specific niche, a driven collator, and a history of cool publications, and you can easily see why one of them attracts a lot more interest.
The half-life of the average thread on here is between one and three days. A few rare ones will last longer when based on a broad topic that's the subject of much confusion and controversy (such as the Called Shots and Matrix threads). Otherwise, they die out pretty fast as people get bored re-reading the same stuff and people start repeating themselves.
Besides, there's, what, two sourcebooks on all the places in Seattle? Coming up with new ones that don't overlap is a pain. Now if you asked for the hot spots in Denver...
The Abstruse One
Besides, there's, what, two sourcebooks on all the places in Seattle? Coming up with new ones that don't overlap is a pain. Now if you asked for the hot spots in Denver...
The Abstruse One
getting bored by re-reading can be avoided by creating some original posts, which I think T.I. is really good at. Same for A.H.
Anyway, anyone who follows anthropology knows that a tribe of troglodytes has been discovered living in one of the abandoned geothermal plants in Hell's Kitchen. That's right, a tribe, with a culture, language, tools, music, and all that. A small camp of scientists from linguists to zoologists has moved in to the area to study these creatures, formerly beleived by the majority to be non-sentient.
And on every street corner you can find vendors hawking 'authentic Renraku arcology paraphenelia' from t-shirts to 3-d holo puzzles.
Filing one's horns into cool shapes is popular among trolls now. the parlours are popping up everywhere. They also do tusk-painting for orks.
"Channel 72 'Word on the Street!' is at it again. Interrupting the average citizen at the most inopportune time possible to ask for their comments on the issue of the week. Sundays at 1900!"
Anyway, anyone who follows anthropology knows that a tribe of troglodytes has been discovered living in one of the abandoned geothermal plants in Hell's Kitchen. That's right, a tribe, with a culture, language, tools, music, and all that. A small camp of scientists from linguists to zoologists has moved in to the area to study these creatures, formerly beleived by the majority to be non-sentient.
And on every street corner you can find vendors hawking 'authentic Renraku arcology paraphenelia' from t-shirts to 3-d holo puzzles.
Filing one's horns into cool shapes is popular among trolls now. the parlours are popping up everywhere. They also do tusk-painting for orks.
"Channel 72 'Word on the Street!' is at it again. Interrupting the average citizen at the most inopportune time possible to ask for their comments on the issue of the week. Sundays at 1900!"
MachineProphet, I trust you won't mind if I link your gift in here? I don't know what the pruning standards are here - is a no-reply thread likely to be lost?
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