I just did a search and didn't see anything matching this so I thought I would bring it up.

According to the SR3 rules in M&M the main thing they were going for with cyberware and essence loss was to ground the rules in the "real world" to this extent they said that essence loss came from connecting cyberware up to the brain of the person undergoing the surgery, so in fact the essence loss was from "brain damage" for lack of a better word. This also explained why getting pins in your leg would not cost any essence (no brain connection).

So the question remains, given that essence loss is supposed to be derived from brain connections, then why does Bone lasing cause you to loose essence?

It has no connection to the brain, no wires or hook ups are required. So shouldn't Bone Lasing count as Bio Index loss, for the extensive work done and the fact that your bones are now covered with metal which might inhibit white blood cell production and other biological functions?

The older explanation for essence loss works better.

The grater the change from your bodies original template the grater the loss of essence.

Connections to the brain are important but not the be all and end all of essence reduction.

Bio index only occurs with organic implants, inorganic implants all cause essence loss.

Bone lasing dose not cover the bone it reinforces it with a lattice structure, bold flow to the bone marrow is not restricted in any meaningful manner.

Edward

Oh, I agree that is the case for the old rules for essence loss, which I also happen to like better, but only going by 3rd edition rules (M&M in particular) wouldn't bio loss be more appropriate?

This issue came up when Man & Machine's Essense definition first hit the streets. The best theory I heard as to bone lacing and essence loss under the M&M theory is that lacing interferes with the outermost layer of the bone, the periosteum, where the blood vessels and more importantly, nerves, tie into the structure of the bone.

The simple truth is it doesn't make a goddamn bit of sense. There've been Kessel Run explanation attempts, but those always bleed desperation. If you run a search, you'll find it all over the place. Best to let it go and let it be. In four months, things might make sense again! If not, curse the legacy of Mike Mulvihill. He pretty much screwed up whatever he could get his hands on.

Well to answer Mallets question in my opinion, going by the sr3 rules I would still disagree with the bio index idea as to undergo the procedure I believe it would be rather traumatic like a magor op really.So that could account for the Essence Loss that you are trying to only apply through (brain damage) I think when they wrote the 3rd set of rules they just sorta forgot to mention that rules as to how essence loss apply from 2nd ed still apply.Less human less essence case closed.
But you raise an interisting point I thought.....granted pins in the leg dont loose you Essence I believe it actually does but as the pins are removed the Essence is returned.There for if I remove my cyber implant will my Essence not regenerate as I am becoming more human.Its 2064 I think brain repairs are a lot more advanced then todays and they can do wonders with people today.

AFAIK the reason why Bone Lacing costs essence, when say pins in the leg do not, is that the Bone lacing is added on the cellular level, interfering on a whole other level than simply reinforcing a joint with pins would do.
"the cellular structure of the subject's bones is augmented with lattice chains"
-SR3 p.300
This is, IMO, a fundamental change of the body that forces the brain to readjust itself. So essence loss is on par with the explanation in the MM introduction, but it fits more with the description of essence lost from chems than essence lost from implants.
Why the different types of bone lacing costs different amounts of essence however is beyond me, the material shouldn't have much impact as the brain would have to readjust itself an equal amount wether it's plastic or titan, i guess that's purely for game-balance.

I started a thread on this topic a couple of months ago:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...wtopic=6301&hl=

What it boils down to is that the M&M explanation of Essence loss doesn't really make sense.

No kidding. VCR's and wired refleses make sense for their essence cost, but skillwires are way too low, and datajacks should be al least 1E under the Nervous integrity system.

Final analysis: Game balance thing

You're altering you're true pattern.
Guess Lightbearers are gonna have to change that oath to include, not getting cyberware.

Personally, I'd say ignor the 3rd edition explination and go with 2nd. It makes slightly more sense. (A great deal more if you understood my first statement.) <g>