So I'm brainstorming run elements. I sit down and type every run idea that comes into my head into a big document. Some great, some bad, some weirdly interesting. Occassionally I have a good one and make it into a run.
On the list tonight is an anthroform drone that has achieved sentience. Maybe it had access to immense processing power and became like an A.I. trapped in a drone body, maybe it's an experiment of a corp/Deus/wild magic/whatever, who knows, it's merely a random idea.
Following closely on the heels of that idea was this one: What about anthroform drones as PCs? It raises several questions:
1) What do they do with Karma? Do they even earn any?
2) How do you go about chargen? Do you just let a player build one and go?
Would they need a new system in which they spend points between how human they look, how much "Resources" they can use to upgrade their systems, etc.?
3) Social situations: Since modifiers apply to characters with low Essence, what would a pile of metal and circuits get?
4) Would you let the drone look (meta-)human, as well as speak like a human and move like a human? (Aside from the incredible speeds thay are capable of)
5) Would you let one in your game?
As a side note, none of my players want to be one, this is purely academic.
I was just curious as to how other people felt about this idea.
Full Version: Anthroforms as PCs
Well.
Firstly, no true AI. True AI is only possible by accident or by copypasting code from the accidental AI (much to the AI's disadvantage, though Megara has a much higher cuteness factor now). True AI also is a great danger, as DEus has so aptly demonstrated. Such a 'character' would have to have been built somewhere, by someone with vast ressources and knowledge on their hands. Shiawase and Renraku, possibly MCT, in cooperation with Japan's government (for all those shiny government
that brings, whcih come free of charge for the corp, too) would be the only ones I'd consider canonly able to attempt this. Shiawase is the only one that might actually even consider this (Raku burnt themselves a bit with the Deus debacle, and MCT isn't that great in robotics, to my knowledge).
In other words, the character wuld be a maxed out drone, and his metal butt be 100% controlled by the corporation. A level 5 robot pilot is supposedly close to a metahuman in intelligence, and if equipped with enough extras, maxed out programming, and autosofts for various situations, he could do allright as a PC.
1. No Karma. No need to either. All upgrades are done by installing new software or hardware. 'Learning' new skills means installing new Autosofts. 'Raising' attributes means getting a hardware update. This character would be one hell of a money sink and need a constantly open, SOTA robotics facility around to take care of all this stuff that normal characters do in their downtime. Charisma would be handled as an autosoft.
2. Chargen? Hmmm ... maybe allow them to spend all build points on money ... they're gonna need it after all. But only in a high-level corp campaign. Likely one that takes the characters to interplanetary space or something, where both the facilities are vailable (on the ship), there's enough freedom for the robot player to do anything without the corp's approval, and the character wouldn't stand out too much.
3. Depends on their charisma autosoft. And the cybered character modifier doubles, because the machine isn't innately used to metahuman-metahuman interaction, whcih even the lowest-essence sammy is (or at least, was).
4. It's technically possible, and recommendable, too. But thta'd severely limit body desgin options, but meh, that's the sacrifice they'd have to make to fit in.
5. Yes, after all, I already allowed Deus as the decker, Dunkelzahn as the mage, Neil the Orc Barbarian as muscles and Captain Pickard as the team's rigger. In other words, no way in hell, except in that hypothetical "SR goes Mars" campaign I mentioned earlier. However, in that case, I might even consider that character *being* the ship, and being able to remote control drones on the planetary surface. That'd be an interesting concept.
Firstly, no true AI. True AI is only possible by accident or by copypasting code from the accidental AI (much to the AI's disadvantage, though Megara has a much higher cuteness factor now). True AI also is a great danger, as DEus has so aptly demonstrated. Such a 'character' would have to have been built somewhere, by someone with vast ressources and knowledge on their hands. Shiawase and Renraku, possibly MCT, in cooperation with Japan's government (for all those shiny government
that brings, whcih come free of charge for the corp, too) would be the only ones I'd consider canonly able to attempt this. Shiawase is the only one that might actually even consider this (Raku burnt themselves a bit with the Deus debacle, and MCT isn't that great in robotics, to my knowledge). In other words, the character wuld be a maxed out drone, and his metal butt be 100% controlled by the corporation. A level 5 robot pilot is supposedly close to a metahuman in intelligence, and if equipped with enough extras, maxed out programming, and autosofts for various situations, he could do allright as a PC.
1. No Karma. No need to either. All upgrades are done by installing new software or hardware. 'Learning' new skills means installing new Autosofts. 'Raising' attributes means getting a hardware update. This character would be one hell of a money sink and need a constantly open, SOTA robotics facility around to take care of all this stuff that normal characters do in their downtime. Charisma would be handled as an autosoft.
2. Chargen? Hmmm ... maybe allow them to spend all build points on money ... they're gonna need it after all. But only in a high-level corp campaign. Likely one that takes the characters to interplanetary space or something, where both the facilities are vailable (on the ship), there's enough freedom for the robot player to do anything without the corp's approval, and the character wouldn't stand out too much.
3. Depends on their charisma autosoft. And the cybered character modifier doubles, because the machine isn't innately used to metahuman-metahuman interaction, whcih even the lowest-essence sammy is (or at least, was).
4. It's technically possible, and recommendable, too. But thta'd severely limit body desgin options, but meh, that's the sacrifice they'd have to make to fit in.
5. Yes, after all, I already allowed Deus as the decker, Dunkelzahn as the mage, Neil the Orc Barbarian as muscles and Captain Pickard as the team's rigger. In other words, no way in hell, except in that hypothetical "SR goes Mars" campaign I mentioned earlier. However, in that case, I might even consider that character *being* the ship, and being able to remote control drones on the planetary surface. That'd be an interesting concept.
Play andromeda on from the SF series of the same name.
Fun.
Edward
Fun.
Edward
As much as I love drones, I just don't think having a PC with 10+ levels of vehicle armor is gonna be much fun in a campaign, for the other characters on the team. and of course the power plant is important. Diesel engines just aren't built for stealth.
you could theoretically do a karmatocash conversion, and then allow him to buy skills as autosofts (which are I think the same multiplier as activesofts, and so it'd be around 13K for 6 dice in a skill. 9 if you are still allowing CEDs in your game), or cyberlimb upgrades, etc. Hell, make him pay optempo costs on his body. But the sort of anthform I would trot out of chargen, given a million to spend, would not be something anyone would want in their game. I get pretty burly ones as tertiary drones in most of my rigger builds, so I imagine spending all my resources on my drone body would not be a good arrangement.
My rule of thumb is, exercize care around giant robots. In MOST situations, "Giant Robot" always beats "Not a Giant Robot". See Also: BESM.
you could theoretically do a karmatocash conversion, and then allow him to buy skills as autosofts (which are I think the same multiplier as activesofts, and so it'd be around 13K for 6 dice in a skill. 9 if you are still allowing CEDs in your game), or cyberlimb upgrades, etc. Hell, make him pay optempo costs on his body. But the sort of anthform I would trot out of chargen, given a million to spend, would not be something anyone would want in their game. I get pretty burly ones as tertiary drones in most of my rigger builds, so I imagine spending all my resources on my drone body would not be a good arrangement.
My rule of thumb is, exercize care around giant robots. In MOST situations, "Giant Robot" always beats "Not a Giant Robot". See Also: BESM.
It really depends on what you mean by anthroform. There are many different templated for the sentient anthroform, ranging from Armitage III to Johnny 5 and everything in the middle.
or the sake of simplicity, I'll just go with the two extremes. Johnny 5 is a machine that miraculously gained sentience. Armitage is a machine with so many organic parts that the differance between her and a heavily cybered human is mostly semantical.
The Johnny 5 style machine may have been an accident. The corp may not even know what he is. They might just assume that he was stolen by the runners that he has chosen to hang out with.
The Armitage style machine would certainly be a corporate asset. They would have built her with a purpose, even if she isn't aware of it. She might not even know that she is a machine untill the first time she gets shot.
1. Johnny 5 gets 1/6th good karma and 1/20 karma pool. Johnny needs upgrades and skillsofts, but can spend karma to improve willpower and charisma. Alternately, Johnny gets no karma and cannot upgrade chrisma or willpower. Depending on your take.
Armitage gets normal good karma and 1/20 karma pool. Armitage can't raise physical attributes without upgrade at a SOTA facility but she can raise mental attributes and skills.
2. Make Anthroform a race and give it a point cost. Make them pay for starting attributes and skills like a metahuman. No magical ability. Armitage would have an astral presence. Johnny may or may not depending on your take on his nature. I'd assume not.
3. Johnny would get huge racism modifiers. Compared to him the green changeling dwarf with a pointed tail and spikes growing out of his chest seems normal. Armitage could potentially pass as a human.
4.Yes. That would be my preferred way of playing it. The Johnny 5 style machine is fun but starts becoming inconsistent in some places. The Armitage style machine doesn't require nearly as many rules modifications. Obviously, there would be drawbacks. No vehicular armor, for example.
Yes, and I'd play one. They give a good opportunity for interesting plots. Especially the Armitage style machine who believes herself to be a normal human housewife but goes off to assassinate people when a codeword is spoken into her headware radio.
or the sake of simplicity, I'll just go with the two extremes. Johnny 5 is a machine that miraculously gained sentience. Armitage is a machine with so many organic parts that the differance between her and a heavily cybered human is mostly semantical.
The Johnny 5 style machine may have been an accident. The corp may not even know what he is. They might just assume that he was stolen by the runners that he has chosen to hang out with.
The Armitage style machine would certainly be a corporate asset. They would have built her with a purpose, even if she isn't aware of it. She might not even know that she is a machine untill the first time she gets shot.
1. Johnny 5 gets 1/6th good karma and 1/20 karma pool. Johnny needs upgrades and skillsofts, but can spend karma to improve willpower and charisma. Alternately, Johnny gets no karma and cannot upgrade chrisma or willpower. Depending on your take.
Armitage gets normal good karma and 1/20 karma pool. Armitage can't raise physical attributes without upgrade at a SOTA facility but she can raise mental attributes and skills.
2. Make Anthroform a race and give it a point cost. Make them pay for starting attributes and skills like a metahuman. No magical ability. Armitage would have an astral presence. Johnny may or may not depending on your take on his nature. I'd assume not.
3. Johnny would get huge racism modifiers. Compared to him the green changeling dwarf with a pointed tail and spikes growing out of his chest seems normal. Armitage could potentially pass as a human.
4.Yes. That would be my preferred way of playing it. The Johnny 5 style machine is fun but starts becoming inconsistent in some places. The Armitage style machine doesn't require nearly as many rules modifications. Obviously, there would be drawbacks. No vehicular armor, for example.
Yes, and I'd play one. They give a good opportunity for interesting plots. Especially the Armitage style machine who believes herself to be a normal human housewife but goes off to assassinate people when a codeword is spoken into her headware radio.
Unless someone is putting a lot higher computing power into thier drones than I'd deem remotely useful it's not going to happen. Considering the minimum processing power is one par with UV hosts we shouldn't be experiencing a remake of steve guttenberg's short circuit anytime soon. Although that would be all sorts of badwrong fun.
| QUOTE (Vuron) |
| Unless someone is putting a lot higher computing power into thier drones than I'd deem remotely useful it's not going to happen. Considering the minimum processing power is one par with UV hosts we shouldn't be experiencing a remake of steve guttenberg's short circuit anytime soon. |
That's only for the super-duper godlike AIs like Deus.
The robot pilot rules in Rigger 3 allow for non-sapient machines with the intelligence and competence (if not self-awareness) of well-trained humans. The only missing step between that and a PC AI is a 'managerial' program that is not only aware of the sub-programs and processes it's managing, but aware of itself doing so. A "little" bit of recursion in thought processes.
Of course, any GM that let's such an "AI PC" turn into something as cinematic as Deus or falls for the triteness of "all AIs R uber beings" needs to be taken out back and beat with wet noodles.
This is an awesome idea. I love characters that are original and I would work with the player to get this into the game.
I agree with Hyzmarca with most of his ideas
2/For character creation, depending on what type of AI you have, determines the chargen. Johnny 5 you would have to build like a drone, but if you had an android like Data or a synth from Blade Runner, you could buy it like a race. That way as GM you can set its racial modifiers to fit your game.
5/Definately in my game...I would have to review the character pretty closely though. In one of my games I let in a runner that was a half dragon, so he was human looking, but deformed by dragon genes, had messed up hands and feet, and wings that didnt work. He cant breath fire...we decided we could later as an adept ability, but for now he just blows smoke when he is angry.
I agree with Hyzmarca with most of his ideas
2/For character creation, depending on what type of AI you have, determines the chargen. Johnny 5 you would have to build like a drone, but if you had an android like Data or a synth from Blade Runner, you could buy it like a race. That way as GM you can set its racial modifiers to fit your game.
5/Definately in my game...I would have to review the character pretty closely though. In one of my games I let in a runner that was a half dragon, so he was human looking, but deformed by dragon genes, had messed up hands and feet, and wings that didnt work. He cant breath fire...we decided we could later as an adept ability, but for now he just blows smoke when he is angry.
Here's a varient idea on this thought based on an NPC from one of my games.
The NPC was a persona-soft that had ceratin "conditioning" built-in
This NPC was based on rules for persona-softs out of Man and Machine (I think. I'm at work and can't remember which book the rules were in). Based on the idea that you could use a persona-soft to "reprogram" a metahuman, so why not have a persona-soft that is programmed to think it is "human" and take over a host (love those skillwires) to meet it's needs.
Behind the scenes the "wants" and "needs" are actually programmed into the persona-soft, but the persona might not know that. To them, they know this is what they want/have to do.
Throw in enough skill-softs to allow the persona to save itself off to another optical chip and/or recompile new skills into the existing program.
Not sure how you would base karma for something like this for a PC. Would they want to use karma to increase the physical stats of a host? What if that host died? All of your active skills would be limited to the level of skill wires the host has.
Thankfully I haven't have a player want to do something like this or the anthroform drone idea, yet. The most they've wanted to do with anthroforms has been paint it in 'Star colors and put a light-bar above and just behind the head...then send that in to whatever firefight happens to be going on.
The NPC was a persona-soft that had ceratin "conditioning" built-in
This NPC was based on rules for persona-softs out of Man and Machine (I think. I'm at work and can't remember which book the rules were in). Based on the idea that you could use a persona-soft to "reprogram" a metahuman, so why not have a persona-soft that is programmed to think it is "human" and take over a host (love those skillwires) to meet it's needs.
Behind the scenes the "wants" and "needs" are actually programmed into the persona-soft, but the persona might not know that. To them, they know this is what they want/have to do.
Throw in enough skill-softs to allow the persona to save itself off to another optical chip and/or recompile new skills into the existing program.
Not sure how you would base karma for something like this for a PC. Would they want to use karma to increase the physical stats of a host? What if that host died? All of your active skills would be limited to the level of skill wires the host has.
Thankfully I haven't have a player want to do something like this or the anthroform drone idea, yet. The most they've wanted to do with anthroforms has been paint it in 'Star colors and put a light-bar above and just behind the head...then send that in to whatever firefight happens to be going on.
Wile not wholely the same idea, but one that ould work for many of the same effects, would be an aly spirit in a clock work form. I am working on a story, that has the working title Psyren: The clockwork ghost.
As I recall you can have a ally spirit inhabiting anythjing from a rock, to cyberware. It just is harder for the ally spirit to be bound to something like cyberware. Now if you went this rout it would solve many problems, but it may cause others a well. Namely, the character would be magically active, and have the abilitiy to get some sprit powers. But the player wouldn't have to come up with a reason why they aresmart enough to do wht they do,and not das Uber AI's.
As for rules on how to make said Pc, i couldn't really tell you, but I think it would be fair to say it would cost say 40-50 points,and that would start him off as force three and the normal ally powers. But I am just a ramabling on.
As I recall you can have a ally spirit inhabiting anythjing from a rock, to cyberware. It just is harder for the ally spirit to be bound to something like cyberware. Now if you went this rout it would solve many problems, but it may cause others a well. Namely, the character would be magically active, and have the abilitiy to get some sprit powers. But the player wouldn't have to come up with a reason why they aresmart enough to do wht they do,and not das Uber AI's.
As for rules on how to make said Pc, i couldn't really tell you, but I think it would be fair to say it would cost say 40-50 points,and that would start him off as force three and the normal ally powers. But I am just a ramabling on.
Ya know, one thing that bothers me with the Matrix and especially the Deus/Mageara copy/paste thing is this. How does COPYing the code from one to the other some how delte the code in the original? that would be CUT and paste, not COPY and paste.
Honestly, they could have easily copied the code outwithout so much as annoying her and it would have altered the story considerably. I mean, if you don't have to tick off a living legend of a decker, why would you?
Honestly, they could have easily copied the code outwithout so much as annoying her and it would have altered the story considerably. I mean, if you don't have to tick off a living legend of a decker, why would you?
| QUOTE (Cray74 @ Mar 28 2005, 11:39 AM) |
| Of course, any GM that let's such an "AI PC" turn into something as cinematic as Deus or falls for the triteness of "all AIs R uber beings" needs to be taken out back and beat with wet noodles. |
Yeah, what I meant by "A.I." was more along the lines of a Pilot rating 5 anthroform that had somehow gained sentience, not Mecha-Deus.
Instead of an anthropod drone (which is inefficient and can carry a very limited amount of processing capability), why not go for the wheeled variety a la' R2-D2? A "Learning" robot such as those used for sewer cleaning (automatically records and analyses the best way to go through sewers a,b, and c) may have, in an attempt to prolong longevity as implicated in its major subroutine, managed to override its own code to do things in it's own best interest, such as feigning a "oil change" alert. Over time, the robot eventually obtained something near sentience, and has transferred itself to a new a new drone "body" intended for more generalized use. Over time, it accumulated money, and occasionally managed to transfer a few credits to an ID it stole from someone or other. After a while, it discovered the advantages of shadowrunning, had some heavy guns installed, and found a team of 'runners so heavily cybered they could'nt care wether their teammate was technically alive or not.
This leaves you with a high-end self updating "autosoft" installible in almost any drone. (Of course, it requires robots with high-end processing power to actually do anything, which drones tend not to have.) Karma could be considered "life experience", which could be used to allow the robot to "refine" its programming, essentially improving a skill or menal attribute. Physical attributes vary by how much armor it has.
This leaves you with a high-end self updating "autosoft" installible in almost any drone. (Of course, it requires robots with high-end processing power to actually do anything, which drones tend not to have.) Karma could be considered "life experience", which could be used to allow the robot to "refine" its programming, essentially improving a skill or menal attribute. Physical attributes vary by how much armor it has.
Now there's an interesting concept. A lot of people play riggers that treat their drones as if they were people. I propose a drone pilot system that you can spend karma/money to upgrade, and you can move it from vehicle to vehicle, if you like. Imagine putting it into an aztechnology hedgehog. it could function like a remote pilot + autosoft system. Good times.
Should I be at all concerned? 
Now what would REALLY be funny is if you had that and the result was C-3PO (or C-3PO'd in Melonpool )
)
| QUOTE (DocMortand) |
| Now what would REALLY be funny is if you had that and the result was C-3PO (or C-3PO'd in Melonpool ) |
Melonpool is Awesome. I'm thinking of having them make a cameo at some time or other if I can get another game off the ground. Robo-Sammy would make one heck of an enemy, no?
I personally like my idea, but I would have it be a character as opposed to a really smart drone (although the latter could eventually become the former as it became smarter). I also had an idea for rigger characters that would allow them to encase their brains in an egg-shaped life support unit, which they could simply slide into a specially-modified drone and control as one would a vehicle. This would allow for extreme adaptability; characters could function almost anywhere providing they could hook up an air tank first. Without a drone, they would be limited to whatever propulsion they had installed in the miniscule amount of space on the pod itself, and they would be almost entirely useless as anything other than a rigger or decker. (Of course, if your only neural interface is a rigger unit and datajack(which gets around any pesky Essence issues from attaching too many wires to the brain), you're likely to become pretty darn good at one or the other.)
So, ideas for the Archetype:
Stat modifications:
Intelligence -2 (fixable with suitable cyberdeck; if added, add intelligence equivalent to 1/2 MPCP rating of deck rounded up)
Quickness +1, adjusted by 2/3 MPCP rating of Deck rounded up (NOTE: movement rate based on robot chassis, not quickness)
Strength, body limited by robot chassis.
Charisma -4
Reaction modified by 3x Response Increase provided by cyberdeck
Other modifications:
-Character's initiative dice are modified by cyberdeck's Response Increase number in addition to any other installed cyberware.
-This character type requires a whopping 45 building points, and attribute points cost 3, not 2. In addition, the character must spend a lot of money on a robot chassis (think expensive drone), plus 150,000 nuyen for basic computer functions, which apply modifiers shown, and give 20 mp of active memory for skillsoft and autosoft programs. In addition, characters recieve 1/4 normal knowledge skills, and may not use the Enhanced Attribute edges or most physical flaws. (GM decides what can and cannot be used).
-Robot characters are IMMUNE to magic. This means that manabolt is about as effective as throwing a rubber cheeseburger, and that robots cannot use magic. They have NO astral presence whatsover, although the background count would be pretty high. (Anyone want to give an approximation?). Of course, physical spells like Fireball are still effective, and characters take double damage from electrial spells unless suitably insulated.
-To heal the character, an Electronics B/R roll must be made. (The character can make this roll, if concious.) Effects are identical to that of Biotech. Stun damage is absorbed at triple the normal rate, and many stun weapons do not harm them. (Shock weapons do physical, not stun, damage.) Trauma patches may not be used, although a character will have the central storage memory (and therefore personality) intact if overflow boxes equal to the robot's toughness x 1.5 (round down) are not filled.
-The character would be limited by computing hardware. Because cyberdecks are small and very powerful, they are the preferred method of enhancing this; a robotic character could attach one of these providing they pay for a datajack (same cost as per metahuman datajack).
-Each weapon system reqires a seperate smartlink; however, a large number of these may be used at one time.
-Because the character is a robot, essence is a non-issue, which makes sense considering that you're perfectly capable of taking over an entire battleship (comptete with fusion reactor) if you felt like it.
-To facilitate intelligence, the character must use MP of active memory equal to the MPCP of the deck times thirty for basic programs. In addition, some types of cyberware require active memory.
Cyberware Cost
Cybereyes 15mp+4mp per extra function
Cyberarm 30mp
Smartlink 12mp
Skillsoft mp of skillsoft
Linguasoft 1/2 mp of Linguasoft
Knowsoft 1/4 mp of Knowsoft
In addition, many skills take up passive memory.
Active skill Skill rating x 40
Knowledge skill Skill rating x 15
Cyberware that may be used:
All headware (including encephalon, pneumonic enhancer, etc.); double price for Cybereyes. (multiple sets of cybereyes may be installed). 1/3 price for anything that requires transmission, such as a headware radio, or a Simsense link.
Skillwires, 1/3 normal price (you're already a bunch of wires in the first place, right?
Vehicle armor (use Rigger rules; be warned, however, that you're pretty darn slow if you pack on too much)
Smartlinks (may be used with electronic vision enhancement if laser sight is used)
Vehicle Control Rigs (1/2 normal price due to the lack of invasive surgery or neural interface required)
Cyberlimbs. Modify cost by 2/3 for cyberarms; cyberlegs same price.
Cyberdeck rules:
Character must spend karma to "bond" to the item equal to the MCPC of the deck squared. Two may be used simulatenously, but at MCPC^3 karma cost. Starting cyberdecks cost TRIPLE the amount listed. (This is too keep munchkins from decking themselves into combat monsters, and making it so that only die-hard characters can access a Fairlight Excalibur, a deck so powerful that it would give it the effects of Wired Reflexes III plus a substantial boost to reaction, and intelligence greater than that of anyone short perhaps of a great dragon.
Yes, it took me a long time to type all of this out.
Heh - what was that wierd walker drone in the Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex called? Jameson body, I believe. I can totally see that as the basic "shell", and have the RCD/EW contained in the mini unit. The arms would double as the jack interface into drone/vehicle/security system.
I actually kinda like these rules - massive drawbacks, good advantages. I'm not sure whether or not this would be balanced in actual game play - I suppose you'd have to try it out and see if it worked first. *shrug*
Actually, I could also see these rules applying to brains being implanted in drone bodies - if you can successfully transplant cyberskull, torso, arms and legs and still be above 0 essence you can be implanted in a drone body if you have life preservation methods. But this is getting away from the topic at large - I'll bring it up in a new thread.
I actually kinda like these rules - massive drawbacks, good advantages. I'm not sure whether or not this would be balanced in actual game play - I suppose you'd have to try it out and see if it worked first. *shrug*
Actually, I could also see these rules applying to brains being implanted in drone bodies - if you can successfully transplant cyberskull, torso, arms and legs and still be above 0 essence you can be implanted in a drone body if you have life preservation methods. But this is getting away from the topic at large - I'll bring it up in a new thread.
| QUOTE (DocMortand) |
| Heh - what was that wierd walker drone in the Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex called? Jameson body, I believe. I can totally see that as the basic "shell", and have the RCD/EW contained in the mini unit. The arms would double as the jack interface into drone/vehicle/security system. I actually kinda like these rules - massive drawbacks, good advantages. I'm not sure whether or not this would be balanced in actual game play - I suppose you'd have to try it out and see if it worked first. *shrug* Actually, I could also see these rules applying to brains being implanted in drone bodies - if you can successfully transplant cyberskull, torso, arms and legs and still be above 0 essence you can be implanted in a drone body if you have life preservation methods. But this is getting away from the topic at large - I'll bring it up in a new thread. |
First, I'd like to say that I'm literally extatic that someone liked my rules. I'm a bit of a n00b to this game, and I'm likely to be GMing soon, so positive opinions are nice. Critiquing and modifications, however, are appreciated even more.
Secondly, the whole idea behind the pod is to control the entire body through two interfaces: A rigger VCR, and a datajack. By putting everything from cybereyes to panther cannons through a VCR link, you can use a nearly endless amount of cyberware without additional essence cost. It's a nice idea in theory, but there are obvious drawbacks.
Note:
Sorry for being confusing, but the archetype listed above is for the robot characters. I actually have a set of rules for the "Pod Riggers" somewhere on my hard drive; I'd be happy to dredge them up if someone's interested.
Heh - I started a thread on that - regurgitate it there if you want. 
Has been done.
If someone would be so kind, please "roll up" a character or two using my rules, and see if they're either wimpy or too easily munchkinized. I'm trying to make these characters less than bright when starting a game, but becoming smarter and wiser as they accumulate better hardware and "software" (What we like to call "Skills acquired from karma"). They make some sense for anti-magic or low profile characters. (Who would suspect a cleaning robot of concealing enough ordinance to kill everything within fifty meters? Not to mention place a large brick of explosives in a diplomat's room...)
In case anyone wanted to know, the reason I'm trying to make all sorts of wacky (and unrealistic) character classes is because I'm trying to introduce some anime fans to shadowrun. These are people who are familiar with GITS (which I've only seen two episodes of), Cowboy Bebop, and Trigun; they're going to want to create characters with similar stats and abilities without having to resort to non-standard modifications. Robot characters are liable to fit in there somewhere, along with gun-toting physads and brains encased in round chunks of aluminum. Sure, they're not cannon, but if we have a good time, who cares?
(For the record, I'm an AD&D expat, who is used to being able to re-write worlds as I see fit. Shadowrun is a better system, but the whole thing is rather restricting, so I feel like modifying the rules and world until I like them better.)r
If someone would be so kind, please "roll up" a character or two using my rules, and see if they're either wimpy or too easily munchkinized. I'm trying to make these characters less than bright when starting a game, but becoming smarter and wiser as they accumulate better hardware and "software" (What we like to call "Skills acquired from karma"). They make some sense for anti-magic or low profile characters. (Who would suspect a cleaning robot of concealing enough ordinance to kill everything within fifty meters? Not to mention place a large brick of explosives in a diplomat's room...)
In case anyone wanted to know, the reason I'm trying to make all sorts of wacky (and unrealistic) character classes is because I'm trying to introduce some anime fans to shadowrun. These are people who are familiar with GITS (which I've only seen two episodes of), Cowboy Bebop, and Trigun; they're going to want to create characters with similar stats and abilities without having to resort to non-standard modifications. Robot characters are liable to fit in there somewhere, along with gun-toting physads and brains encased in round chunks of aluminum. Sure, they're not cannon, but if we have a good time, who cares?
(For the record, I'm an AD&D expat, who is used to being able to re-write worlds as I see fit. Shadowrun is a better system, but the whole thing is rather restricting, so I feel like modifying the rules and world until I like them better.)r
My thoughts on this are almost like making a character out of cyberware, or an uber-cyberzombie.
It would require the purchase of cyberlimbs/torsos, and of course power would be important. Firstly, to restrict player expenditure of tons of cash to be tons of cybered, you'd need a power plant. Since any sort of loud engine makes stealth irrelevant, chances are a character would pick some form of electric. Regardless, the total essence cost (which will probably be at least 6) would be the amount of drain per hour on the fuel source. Since I don't imagine a robot walking up to gas station...
So if an electric battery produced 50 (rigger 3) megawatt hours and the robot had 10 essence points worth of cyberware, he could operate for five hours before having to plug in. For longevity's sake, a 15-minute "emergency" battery could be used to allow for a switching of batteries, presuming our cyborg friend could reach one. In leiu of a replacement, he'd have to hope he has some good friends and he could spend about 6-10 minutes backing his systems up to avoid memory loss, then just "sleep" until his pals plug him into the wall.
Damage would be handled based on the idea that a cyber-limb is built with strength and quickness equal to slightly more than its metahuman-type average. Body would also be a four by default, and could be increased by adding levels of dermal plating, the essence cost of which would be explained simply as an expansion of the need to expend more power to move it. Of course, Dermal Plating used in this way would provide one point of ballistic and impact armor as well, in addition to whatever armor a cyberlimb might automatically provide.
Some cyber-parts would be 100% necessary:
Arms, legs, torso, skull, eyes (though you can probably implant more than one...), ears (again, more than one? Maybe!...), headware memory (and lots, lots of it...), skillsoft link, knowsoft link.
Now keeping in mind I know minimal stuff about which softs are which and how they work, the intellegence of our friendly computer-man would probably be the proposed MCPC/2 formula.
As for initiative, reaction would function about as normal, while wired reflexes would essentially be the same. Boosted reflexes is nonsense, while move-by-wire is silly because there can't really be non-damaging seizures.
Anyhow, just my two UCAS dollars. Enjoy.
It would require the purchase of cyberlimbs/torsos, and of course power would be important. Firstly, to restrict player expenditure of tons of cash to be tons of cybered, you'd need a power plant. Since any sort of loud engine makes stealth irrelevant, chances are a character would pick some form of electric. Regardless, the total essence cost (which will probably be at least 6) would be the amount of drain per hour on the fuel source. Since I don't imagine a robot walking up to gas station...
So if an electric battery produced 50 (rigger 3) megawatt hours and the robot had 10 essence points worth of cyberware, he could operate for five hours before having to plug in. For longevity's sake, a 15-minute "emergency" battery could be used to allow for a switching of batteries, presuming our cyborg friend could reach one. In leiu of a replacement, he'd have to hope he has some good friends and he could spend about 6-10 minutes backing his systems up to avoid memory loss, then just "sleep" until his pals plug him into the wall.
Damage would be handled based on the idea that a cyber-limb is built with strength and quickness equal to slightly more than its metahuman-type average. Body would also be a four by default, and could be increased by adding levels of dermal plating, the essence cost of which would be explained simply as an expansion of the need to expend more power to move it. Of course, Dermal Plating used in this way would provide one point of ballistic and impact armor as well, in addition to whatever armor a cyberlimb might automatically provide.
Some cyber-parts would be 100% necessary:
Arms, legs, torso, skull, eyes (though you can probably implant more than one...), ears (again, more than one? Maybe!...), headware memory (and lots, lots of it...), skillsoft link, knowsoft link.
Now keeping in mind I know minimal stuff about which softs are which and how they work, the intellegence of our friendly computer-man would probably be the proposed MCPC/2 formula.
As for initiative, reaction would function about as normal, while wired reflexes would essentially be the same. Boosted reflexes is nonsense, while move-by-wire is silly because there can't really be non-damaging seizures.
Anyhow, just my two UCAS dollars. Enjoy.
That seems like a whole lot of trouble to go through when anthroforms already have established rules. The idea was to make an anthroform drone as a PC, not to make a PC into an anthroform drone.
Well, you could always just use cash instead of BP. However, this presents problems in certain situations. Anything that requires a willpower check, for example. It would also have problems with magic. Every spell will either be an auto-failure or auto-sucess depending on its force and the. The exception being comat spells.
| QUOTE (Capt. Dave) |
| That seems like a whole lot of trouble to go through when anthroforms already have established rules. The idea was to make an anthroform drone as a PC, not to make a PC into an anthroform drone. |
The problem with drones is that they are not terribly bright. If they're confronted with a problem not in their autosoft code, they're stuck. I designed my rules so that you could simply replace the innards of the drone of your choice with the aforementioned electronics, including anthroform drones, boosting its intelligence to the point where an AI is possible. Also, unlike drones, you have a Willpower attribute, which allows you to make assorted willpower-related tests. (Robot deckers will find this useful).
Now, for adventure ideas:
-Character must buy out company that originally manufactured it, in order to recieve the huge cash prize for a drone with AI capability. (Buying out your manufacturers shows sentience, if nothing else.)
-Character is hired to go against toxic shamans. Being electronic, they have to worry much less about toxic gasses and radiation in most forms, and many spells are all but innefective.
-Runner team must travel to Dunk's underwater complex to guard against toxic shark shamans, and robot character must move himself to a suitable drone so that he can move about outside in the high-pressure environment.
-Runners must ascertain a drone in post office, replace it with the PC, and have it grab a package without looking conspicuous. (the building is shielded, making remote rigging impossible).
-Runner team must defeat Horrors (This is a great adventure for some super-powerful runners) and the robot does espionage because horrors do not see him as a potential target, and even if they did, they're limited in terms of spells.
| QUOTE (SpasticTeapot) |
| The problem with drones is that they are not terribly bright. |
Quote R3, pg. 121: "Rating 5 pilots are cunning expert systems that exhibit comprehension levels beyond those of some metahumans"
With appropriate upgrades, they can have 15 dice for Comprehension Tests, along with 10 dice as an Adaptation Pool.
Seems pretty bright to me, especially when you consider Int. 1 characters can theoretically play the game.
| QUOTE (Capt. Dave) | ||
Quote R3, pg. 121: "Rating 5 pilots are cunning expert systems that exhibit comprehension levels beyond those of some metahumans" With appropriate upgrades, they can have 15 dice for Comprehension Tests, along with 10 dice as an Adaptation Pool. Seems pretty bright to me, especially when you consider Int. 1 characters can theoretically play the game. |
That is true, but the fact remains that autosofts are highly limited. Although a helicopter drone with suitable programming could react to advanced aerial tactics, it's still unable to shoot a pistol even if you bolt on a cyberarm. Moreover, they are often not able to come up with plans themselves; anything abstract above the level of basic manouvering is outside the grasp of autosofts. (This is why they are not called "AIs"; they are unable to do anything other than react and follow orders.)
True, but OMC's are cheap. With enough commands programmed in, it could play at least as well as some of the characters I've seen. As to autosofts, an autosoft is available to allow drones to use electronic warfare; everything else should be cake compared to that. They don't need magical skills, social skills, or decking skills, as they connect to the Matrix in tortoise mode and they have no rules for using a cyberdeck. They've already got gunnery, just add in some Technical skills and some B/R skills.
Or one could just allow them to be sentient, with effective Intelligence equal to pilot rating.
And of course it could fire a pistol. Weapons mounted to a drone are gunnery, regardless if it's a pistol or an LMG.
Or one could just allow them to be sentient, with effective Intelligence equal to pilot rating.
And of course it could fire a pistol. Weapons mounted to a drone are gunnery, regardless if it's a pistol or an LMG.
| QUOTE (Capt. Dave @ Apr 4 2005, 03:07 AM) |
| True, but OMC's are cheap. With enough commands programmed in, it could play at least as well as some of the characters I've seen. As to autosofts, an autosoft is available to allow drones to use electronic warfare; everything else should be cake compared to that. They don't need magical skills, social skills, or decking skills, as they connect to the Matrix in tortoise mode and they have no rules for using a cyberdeck. They've already got gunnery, just add in some Technical skills and some B/R skills. Or one could just allow them to be sentient, with effective Intelligence equal to pilot rating. And of course it could fire a pistol. Weapons mounted to a drone are gunnery, regardless if it's a pistol or an LMG. |
Regardless, this leaves you with a drone and not a character. It would also remove the importance of Karma, which the player should be able to use to further his/her abilities just like everyone else. Also, consider that you're allowing characters to just go out and buy every autosoft in the game, and a really massive chip jukebox to swap them all out. This is like giving a character an easy way to get skills in everything from gunnery to bonsai trimming without even spending any karma.
Besides, this makes the character just a slightly more complicated autosoft, not a being bent on its own self-preservation and with assorted unintended quirks. Sure, you could shoot, you could move, etc., but when it comes to roleplaying you're in the same category as cinderblocks. Robotic characters could, if they're clever, negotiate their way into almost anyhwere by hijacking a mail robot. Autosoft characters would lack the ability to formulate an abstract plan; like most animals, robots as we know them are bad at abstract thinking.
And, of course, an autosoft character makes no sense from a timeline point of view. If it was that easy to turn your doberman into a sentient AI bot, you would see them all over the place. If, on the other hand, a character manages to attain sentience, he or she would likely be a highly unique construct requiring processing power that makes the computer an typical drone look like a pocket calculator in comparison.
EDIT:
Is it just me, or do the members of Dumpshock have something against changing the rules? Just because you've paid a large sum of money for them and just because they work extrmely well does'nt mean they can't be reshaped to better fit your campaign. AD$D may be inferior to SRIII in many ways, but at least the older editions were almost designed so as to let you twiddle with the rules in whatever way you feel most appropriate.
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