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Spookymonster
Just something I thought up while reading this thread. Figured I'd post it for suggestions. Some people aren't happy with the way initiative is handled in combat. Here's my ideas on an simple alternative. Of course, if you're happy with the current system, feel free to ignore this thread.

You can find more of my alternate rule ideas over at my blog.

YACS (Yet Another Combat System)
Change initiative rolls to a standard Reaction (+ Init dice) success test vs. TN4. The result goes into the character's Action pool.
Cap max successes to 12.

Each 3 second turn is broken into 1 second rounds. When and how often you get to act depends on your Action pool:
- Round 1: 5-8 (lightning quick)
- Round 2: 1-4 (mundane)
- Round 3: 9-12 (inhuman)
- If you rolled no successes, you're SOL. Prepare to soak.
All actions in the same round take place simultaneously.

Every possible action takes 1 or more Action Points (AP). Free actions have an AP of 1 (speaking 3 words, changing ammo via smartlink). Most simple actions have an AP of 2 (firing a weapon, certain melee attacks). Complex actions have an AP of 4 (spellcasting, summoning, melee 'powerup' attacks) or greater (autofire, perhaps?).

Your initiative successes count as your AP pool. You can spend no more than 5 AP in any one round. Any unspent AP carry over to the next round, but are lost at the end of the turn.

At the end of the turn, any remaining combatants can buy initiative successes for the next turn at 2 AP each. This increases the likelyhood that they'll be able to act in the first round of the next turn (but doesn't guarantee it).

Surprise/ambush: If one of the parties is undetected at the beginning of combat (i.e, hidden or invisible), the unsuspecting party rolls a perception test. If the test fails, the ambushed party cannot take action against the ambushers in the 1st round. The ambushed party can still take action in the 1st round against any party that didn't surprise them (provided they had a high enough AP).
Aku
QUOTE (spookymonster)

Each 3 second turn is broken into 1 second rounds. When and how often you get to act depends on your Action pool:
- Round 1: 5-8 (lightning quick)
- Round 2: 1-4 (mundane)
- Round 3: 9-12 (inhuman)



ok, i was confused starting at this point, now if i'm reading this correctly, the wau you have it set up mundanes either move before/after inhuman speeds/lightning quick. this doesnt seem right, i think the concept you are trying to get at it

-round 1: all three types
-round 2: LQ and inhuman
-round 3: inhuman

the reason i set this up as so, is to give the mundane slow pokes atleast a chance of getting one shot through. if you make them go dead last, i dont see much of a chance if any of them surviving to that point.
Herald of Verjigorm
It seems to make regular initiative enhancers almost useless, unless you count initiative dice as more than one die for the test, but probably not a full 6 for each. If you don't mind the extra rolling, this might work with rolling the initiative dice, then rolling a number of dice equal to your regular style initiative score. I think it will make it far too easy to max out initiative (when healthy) and make injuries even more limiting in combat, but let us know how the testing works out.
Edward
Actually I think he meant it to go lime this.
In the first round the inhumanly fast and the lightning quick characters act.
In the second round all characters act.
In the third round only the inhumanly fast characters act. (if thay havenít spent all there action points yet.

I donít see it as being any better than the old system.

One question. Why did you limit successes to 12? I would not have set a limit on successes, you can practically only spend 15 action (limit 5 per round in each of 3 rounds) and you may or may not want to allow any extras to role over (at 2 action points for 1 dice) into the next action.

You ether need to make initiative dice worth more than points of reaction or rewrite all the values for initiative improving cyber wear I would start with each initiative dice granting 3 dice to your modified initiative roll and work from thare. (if you donít do this compare boosted reflexes 3, wired reflexes 1 and 3 levels of reaction enhancers, each gives the exact same improvement)

Another affect will be the effect of wounds on initiative. Under the old system -2 to initiative was significant but not groundbreaking, under your system -2 to the target number for the initiative roll will drop your final initiative to 1/3 of what it would have been (eg a super fast individual with 18 dice would normally expect 12 successes at target 4, say he takes a light wound now he is only expecting 6 successes, add a light stun and it is only 3 successes. Even the fastest characters if reduced to 2 serious wounds will not likely get actions enough to walk around. You also need to decide what if any other modifiers apply to the target number for initiative.

This may be subtle for your game but it dos greatly increase the danger of small wounds (and the usefulness of pain resistance), but you should defiantly consider these implications before using the rule.

Edward
Spookymonster
QUOTE (Aku @ Mar 29 2005, 12:06 PM)
...i think the concept you are trying to get at it

-round 1:  all three types
-round 2:  LQ and inhuman
-round 3:  inhuman

Actually, more like:

- round 1: LQ and inhuman
- round 2: mundanes, LQs, and inhumans
- round 3: inhuman only

LQ and inhuman speeds mean you're quicker on the draw than mundanes on a instinctual, unconscious level. Inhuman speed means you've also been able to consciously assess the situation and react faster than most. Everyone else will have to wait until round 1 of the next turn (at the earliest) before they the events of the current round 2 have 'sunk in'.

[edit]Edward beat me to it.
Herald of Verjigorm
As an alternate option instead of initiative dice just being more dice to roll, what happens if initiative dice count as beneficial modifiers to the initiative test? This would mean that most characters would have a TN of 2 when healthy, and the different degrees of excessive initiative boost would mostly matter when injuries start happening. That way, wired adds a few dice and reduces the TN a little, synaptic just reduces the TN, and MBW does everything with the top two providing an extra time to act at the end if any AP are left.
Also, throw in a minimum number of action points unless your wound modifier outnumbers your reaction dice. This will keep characters acting when they should be able to according to SR3 rules (or almost) but will still retain the catastrophic injury effects from this setup.
Spookymonster
QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm)
It seems to make regular initiative enhancers almost useless

Yeah, init enhancers would definitely need to be reworked as either TN bonuses or extra dice. TN bonuses probably, to offset the considerable effects of damage (as Edward noted).

QUOTE (Edward)
I donít see it as being any better than the old system.

The math is a little simpler, IMHO. For one thing, damage doesn't cause you to recalculate your init mid-turn. It also sets a physical limit to the number of actions you can perform in an 3 second span, whereas in the current system you could empty a clip, reload, etc. until your init runs out.
QUOTE (Edward)
One question. Why did you limit successes to 12?  I would not have set a limit on successes, you can practically only spend 15 action (limit 5 per round in each of 3 rounds) and you may or may not want to allow any extras to role over (at 2 action points for 1 dice) into the next action.

Two reasons:
1) My set of alternate SR rules uses 12 as a standard cap for most successes and target numbers.
2) It lets tactics play a bigger role in combat.

With an AP of 15, you'd be able to take the max actions in every round: squeeze off 2 shots in round 1 (4 AP), another 2 in round 2 (8 APl), and another 2 in round 3 (12 AP), then buy a success for the next round (14 AP), and hurl a colorful insult at your victims smouldering remains (for a total of 15 AP). A pool of 12 or better basically boils down to "what do you want to do with the leftovers after you've shot your pistol twice each round?".

With a cap of 12, you may want to be more conservative. If you blow all your AP on firearms, you won't have anything to buy successes with at the end of the round. With anything less than 12, you'll need a strategy: is the best defense a good offense (get off as many shots as possible as early as possible)? Is it worth the risk of getting caught in round 3 with no viable actions? Or maybe you're the sneaky type, and you decide to just keep lurking in the shadows this turn and throw all your actions into bonuses for the next round.
GrinderTheTroll
Street Sams get no respect I tell you! No respect!
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