Yeah. This came up in a conversation I had with myself, having nobody else to talk to.
What if we were to re-imagine Shadowrun?
Just the timeline, working from today forward.
What would it look like?
Full Version: Re-Imagining Shadowrun
It would probably have a lot more corporations in bed with governments as opposed to running roughshod over them. Ah USAPATRIOT act, how you make the Shiawase and Seretech decisions look like the Fluffy Bunny Resolution.
~J
~J
In ten years it would just be considered absurd reactionist fiction anyway, why remake it? Much better keeping a timeline that started as a result of some overblown reactionism but grew beyond that than to make a new one and wait the neccessary decade for it to start growing into something rational.
It was supposed to be a thought experiment, not something serious.
This is a type of project that I've looked at off and on for some time.
Of course assuming that you want similar feel you want to decide on a limited number of critical events and work on establishing a framework around them.
Personally the major events worth preserving are the 6th World starting in 2011 and likely some variant of the crash of '39.
Secondary events that I feel are pretty critical are VITAS and the Night of Rage. Depending on your stance on NAN you also might need to look at the Great Ghost Dance.
Of course assuming that you want similar feel you want to decide on a limited number of critical events and work on establishing a framework around them.
Personally the major events worth preserving are the 6th World starting in 2011 and likely some variant of the crash of '39.
Secondary events that I feel are pretty critical are VITAS and the Night of Rage. Depending on your stance on NAN you also might need to look at the Great Ghost Dance.
If we started the time line from today I don't think the technology involved would be as advanced as it is in the current SR world. Also the balance of power would be some what different, I don't know if its because I have not looked at much of the European material but I still think politics in Europe would be very much front and center.
I also think that the state of the population would not have degenerated as much , but we are on the way towards this with the rich poor split widening in many countrys. Law and order has not degraded that much ether (within the western world), but if an event like goblinisation was to take place I think that the shit would really hit the fan, and there would be mass experimentation and the 'removal' of 'uncle Bob'!
I must admit I do sometime catch my self wondering what it would be like to be around in the SR world and the fact that things would be bad for the normal 'Jo Blogs' trying to survive!!
torz x
I also think that the state of the population would not have degenerated as much , but we are on the way towards this with the rich poor split widening in many countrys. Law and order has not degraded that much ether (within the western world), but if an event like goblinisation was to take place I think that the shit would really hit the fan, and there would be mass experimentation and the 'removal' of 'uncle Bob'!
I must admit I do sometime catch my self wondering what it would be like to be around in the SR world and the fact that things would be bad for the normal 'Jo Blogs' trying to survive!!
torz x
Actually from a strictly economics perspective the gap between rich and poor in western countries has been steadily increasing and remains typically heinous in developing countries. While sections of the world might see improvement in regards to equitable distribution of wealth and resources there is no real reason to see that it would improve substantively in the next 45 year. Further assuming the standard cyberpunk staple of aggressively amoral corporations undermining societal protections to benefit the bottom line there is no reason to assume that things couldn't get substantively worse for large sections of the world.
That being said it seems that formative megacorporations don't seem to be particularly interested in becoming 21st century additions to the lists of nationstates so the idea of massive emasculation of the US and other developed nationstates is pretty dubious. Not that I don't see the idea of limited extraterritoriality gaining acceptance but corporate citizenship seems a bit of a stretch at current.
That being said it seems that formative megacorporations don't seem to be particularly interested in becoming 21st century additions to the lists of nationstates so the idea of massive emasculation of the US and other developed nationstates is pretty dubious. Not that I don't see the idea of limited extraterritoriality gaining acceptance but corporate citizenship seems a bit of a stretch at current.
Make BioTech and GeneTech be developed first in the timeline and CyberTech come later. This seems to be much more likely then having advanced Cyberware hitting the hospitals and streets before Muscle Augs, clone parts, etc... And much more likely to happen in the real future.
I was just thinking baout this topic yesterday, so forgive me if this is a bit of a thread hijack.
The element that has aged worst in cyberpunk fiction in general and shadowrun in particular is the whole Japanese dominance thing. Most early cyberpunk falls into this trap, and it's now very dated. Since most dystopian cyberpunk futures require that the US has slipped from its current position as a dominant world power, someone has to replace them -
Cyberpunk 2020 suggested a united Europe - which, for various reasons including population growth, economic growth and the weakening bonds of the union as it expands, I just don't see - and which is, in any case, pretty boring. I never really got the idea of being wowed by the smooth Swiss Solos.
Gurps Cyberworld, in one of the great wrong calls of history, suggested that the future world would be run be a Russia-Japan axis. Terrible prediction, but I actually liked the Russian elements, it was a nice change of pace and flavour.
Shadowrun went with Japan and, bizarrely, a resurgent native american power block as the forces which destabalised America. Arguably that never rang very true, and it certainly seems odd to people reading "and so it came to pass" today.
Here's my suggestion - for a straight cyberpunk game, world affairs are dominated by an axis of the world's most populous nation, the home of much of its technological training and innovation, backed by the craftily invested petrodollars of the world's richest nations (on a per-capita basis anyway) - I give you the Neo-Raj/Neo Sultanate, a world where Kris-wielding Thugee assasins stalk the high tech metroplexes of Qatar and Bangalore and do battle with street dervishes carrying mono-scimatars. High caste-corporate jetseters check out the latest action flicks from Mumbai and cut backroom deals with the Sheik monarchies who dominate the world's financial industry.
The whole India/Emirates axis gets a different twist in SR- India stays in its position of dominance as the world's largest, richest and tech savvy democracy - but who better to profit from the return of magic than militant islam, where college professors try to generate power from genies and witchdoctors testify before the courts even today. Asymetrical warfare gets a big magical boost, and when the dust settles there is a new, global caliphate stretching from Xingiang to Catalonia has been established. The western world is split between the influence of profit hungry Indian megacorps and a repressive theocracy backed by Djinns and spell-wielding Imams - though of course those are TV stereotypes of the much more nuanced differences between the two power blocks.
Frankly I don't have the background in either area's culture to fully imagine the different elements of the two cultures and how they'd look in an SR world, which is kind of the point - instead of the now too-familiar tropes of Japanese culture, you get exposure to two largely unknown sets of mythologies, histories and cultures.
Thoughts?
The element that has aged worst in cyberpunk fiction in general and shadowrun in particular is the whole Japanese dominance thing. Most early cyberpunk falls into this trap, and it's now very dated. Since most dystopian cyberpunk futures require that the US has slipped from its current position as a dominant world power, someone has to replace them -
Cyberpunk 2020 suggested a united Europe - which, for various reasons including population growth, economic growth and the weakening bonds of the union as it expands, I just don't see - and which is, in any case, pretty boring. I never really got the idea of being wowed by the smooth Swiss Solos.
Gurps Cyberworld, in one of the great wrong calls of history, suggested that the future world would be run be a Russia-Japan axis. Terrible prediction, but I actually liked the Russian elements, it was a nice change of pace and flavour.
Shadowrun went with Japan and, bizarrely, a resurgent native american power block as the forces which destabalised America. Arguably that never rang very true, and it certainly seems odd to people reading "and so it came to pass" today.
Here's my suggestion - for a straight cyberpunk game, world affairs are dominated by an axis of the world's most populous nation, the home of much of its technological training and innovation, backed by the craftily invested petrodollars of the world's richest nations (on a per-capita basis anyway) - I give you the Neo-Raj/Neo Sultanate, a world where Kris-wielding Thugee assasins stalk the high tech metroplexes of Qatar and Bangalore and do battle with street dervishes carrying mono-scimatars. High caste-corporate jetseters check out the latest action flicks from Mumbai and cut backroom deals with the Sheik monarchies who dominate the world's financial industry.
The whole India/Emirates axis gets a different twist in SR- India stays in its position of dominance as the world's largest, richest and tech savvy democracy - but who better to profit from the return of magic than militant islam, where college professors try to generate power from genies and witchdoctors testify before the courts even today. Asymetrical warfare gets a big magical boost, and when the dust settles there is a new, global caliphate stretching from Xingiang to Catalonia has been established. The western world is split between the influence of profit hungry Indian megacorps and a repressive theocracy backed by Djinns and spell-wielding Imams - though of course those are TV stereotypes of the much more nuanced differences between the two power blocks.
Frankly I don't have the background in either area's culture to fully imagine the different elements of the two cultures and how they'd look in an SR world, which is kind of the point - instead of the now too-familiar tropes of Japanese culture, you get exposure to two largely unknown sets of mythologies, histories and cultures.
Thoughts?
If I rewrote it the NAN's would not exist, nor would they have any bearing on the world shaping events, there would be more elves and more pagans.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Mar 30 2005, 01:29 PM) |
| It would probably have a lot more corporations in bed with governments as opposed to running roughshod over them. Ah USAPATRIOT act, how you make the Shiawase and Seretech decisions look like the Fluffy Bunny Resolution. |
I toyed with this idea a little bit, and in my version you had backlash from libertarian groups against the privacy violations of Patriot Act type legislations, resulting in several cases where the Federal Government ended up getting their hands tied in the court system.
Meanwhile, a consortium of corporations, starting with Airlines and the Credit Bureaus started up their own database system for tracking personal data, that was as invasive to privacy and personal rights as what the federal government was attempting. However this private consortium sidestepped the blocking attempts of the civil liberties groups by making their database an "Opt-In" system that purportedly gave full disclosure of what their "customers" would be giving up in terms of privacy and control of their personal data, and what benefits you'd be getting return by registering into this database system.
While the initial purpose of this database system was security pre-screening for airline travelers, it was immensely popular with the sector of corporate professionals who make frequent business trips. It was these same mid-to-high level execs who out of their familiarity with the database system, and its single system identification number for each individual, who started seeing applications within their own companies for a similar system. The consortium grew rapidly, eventually becoming the forerunner to the Corporate Court.
hmmm. if I were to re-write shadowrun?
Well, first of all, China ascendant. The sleeping giant that is the worlds most populous country would finally break the economic slumber it's been under and decide that the rest of the world is a bit too . . . american. Actions would be taken accordingly to make sure that whatever was useful about america became Chinese, and that whatever was bad about america got held up to the world as proof of why they should be the ones in charge now.
The US would collapse under its own weight, burning out like the empire it wanted to be. The resultant fractured, violent nation of disillusioned and very, very angry gunweilding americans would turn the once-proud nation into a pit of terror where a massive population of people used to the comforts of a first world nation will be willing to kill and more to get them back, even for a short time.
The EU will grow stronger, even as the borders that once dilineated the member nations become all but meaningless. The economic threat of China will force the EU into attack mode, hoping to preempt the Chinese takeover. The major battleground for these two competing powers will be in the decimated remains of NA, where both sides will vie for the loyalty of the population and the remains of the military-industrial complex that drove the nation.
Africa goes to hell. The shit people have been doing to it will explode with the spread of VITAS (I'd keep that, I like it) and the Awakening will see the clash of traditional tribal with the adopted (er... forced) customs of the conquerors. Don't expect to see anything productive from the dark continent for a century or so. But hey, it's a great place to be a Merc.
The middle east will implode, like it always wanted to. Isreal will nuke all it's neighbors the moment the US goes under and it looks like the EU isn't going to help them. The rest of the muslim countries (those with nukes, at least) will nuke Israel in return, and the Holy Land becomes the Irradiated Land, where nobody wants to be for the forseeable future, all three Adamic religions go into shock and start blaming each other. The Islamic sects that hate each other anyways start slaughtering the hell out of each other, and the various minority religions just try to survive with all other sides against them. Massive turmoil in the region, but it could stabalize unexpectedly at any moment.
India and Pakistan will kill each other. At least they won't nuke each other, after what happens to Israel, Palestine, Iran, etc. VITAS devestates both countries, but they keep trucking on anyways, beating each other back and forth over a small strip of (increasingly unuseable) land. That'll distract 'em while China sinks in its claws.
Australia... rides out the storm and becomes refugee-central from everywhere the world over, giving it a population boom it's not entirely ready to handle. It'll deal, forcing any refugee into a work-placement program where the idea is to work the australian outback into something resembling arable land by building canals, irrigation systems, aqueducts, etc.
South America remains mostly as it does in SR as it is now, as does Aztlan (I like the ideas enough to keep them, and it's not as rediculous sounding as the NAN, especially with GD's involved).
Canada remains Canada, trying to be nice to everyone and avoid becoming the US, just like it always has. Expect massive increases in crime and violence as millions of americans try to cross the border illegally.
In the end: EU and its Megacorps vs. China's might, with everybody else as the playing board and peices.
Bleak enough?
Well, first of all, China ascendant. The sleeping giant that is the worlds most populous country would finally break the economic slumber it's been under and decide that the rest of the world is a bit too . . . american. Actions would be taken accordingly to make sure that whatever was useful about america became Chinese, and that whatever was bad about america got held up to the world as proof of why they should be the ones in charge now.
The US would collapse under its own weight, burning out like the empire it wanted to be. The resultant fractured, violent nation of disillusioned and very, very angry gunweilding americans would turn the once-proud nation into a pit of terror where a massive population of people used to the comforts of a first world nation will be willing to kill and more to get them back, even for a short time.
The EU will grow stronger, even as the borders that once dilineated the member nations become all but meaningless. The economic threat of China will force the EU into attack mode, hoping to preempt the Chinese takeover. The major battleground for these two competing powers will be in the decimated remains of NA, where both sides will vie for the loyalty of the population and the remains of the military-industrial complex that drove the nation.
Africa goes to hell. The shit people have been doing to it will explode with the spread of VITAS (I'd keep that, I like it) and the Awakening will see the clash of traditional tribal with the adopted (er... forced) customs of the conquerors. Don't expect to see anything productive from the dark continent for a century or so. But hey, it's a great place to be a Merc.
The middle east will implode, like it always wanted to. Isreal will nuke all it's neighbors the moment the US goes under and it looks like the EU isn't going to help them. The rest of the muslim countries (those with nukes, at least) will nuke Israel in return, and the Holy Land becomes the Irradiated Land, where nobody wants to be for the forseeable future, all three Adamic religions go into shock and start blaming each other. The Islamic sects that hate each other anyways start slaughtering the hell out of each other, and the various minority religions just try to survive with all other sides against them. Massive turmoil in the region, but it could stabalize unexpectedly at any moment.
India and Pakistan will kill each other. At least they won't nuke each other, after what happens to Israel, Palestine, Iran, etc. VITAS devestates both countries, but they keep trucking on anyways, beating each other back and forth over a small strip of (increasingly unuseable) land. That'll distract 'em while China sinks in its claws.
Australia... rides out the storm and becomes refugee-central from everywhere the world over, giving it a population boom it's not entirely ready to handle. It'll deal, forcing any refugee into a work-placement program where the idea is to work the australian outback into something resembling arable land by building canals, irrigation systems, aqueducts, etc.
South America remains mostly as it does in SR as it is now, as does Aztlan (I like the ideas enough to keep them, and it's not as rediculous sounding as the NAN, especially with GD's involved).
Canada remains Canada, trying to be nice to everyone and avoid becoming the US, just like it always has. Expect massive increases in crime and violence as millions of americans try to cross the border illegally.
In the end: EU and its Megacorps vs. China's might, with everybody else as the playing board and peices.
Bleak enough?
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| It would probably have a lot more corporations in bed with governments as opposed to running roughshod over them. Ah USAPATRIOT act, how you make the Shiawase and Seretech decisions look like the Fluffy Bunny Resolution. ~J |
Um, try reading the Patriot Act. If anything it has the ability to strip power from companies. Hello Frozen Assets!
Just my Republican Retort.
BTW, I am a converted Muslim, and no one has locked me up yet for going to Masjid and having Middle Eastern friends.
If I re-wrote it, I'd set the whole thing in the present, but have an alternate history dating back to the American Civil War (approximately 1861- 65).
- The secession of the South was successful and far less bloody, but led to a cold war period lasting almost 100 years. Without the need to rebuild the South, more money and effort was spent on eliminating the Confederate dependency on Northern manufacturing. The Industrial revolution surged ahead faster than in our timeline.
- Bolstered by Confederate investments, Charles Babbage lives to see his analytical machine built in 1871. Although this doesn't officially begin the computer age, it does bump it up quite a few years.
- The Amerind uprisings of the 1880s was significantly more successful, thanks to the re-emergence of magic and the first Great Ghost Dance. The forced relocation of the plains tribes was brought to a screeching halt. The westward expansion was also greatly slowed. The tribes formed a loose coalition government to work with the Northern and Confederate states, although the NAN would be officially formed until after WWI.
- The Sherman Anti-trust act of 1890 just never happened, thanks to a few well placed lead slugs. The industrial robber barons ran wild across America. The Pullman strike in 1894 set a precident for corporations to be able to use deadly force to protect their assets. This was eventually passed into law in 1929, shortly before the market crashed.
- Speaking of which, the market crash of 1929 was widely believed to be caused by computer hackers. Why they did it is still a mystery.
- WWI happened pretty much as it did here. Multinational companies become officially recognized, thanks to their efforts in the war. The NAN is formed.
- Goblinization begins in 1936.
- WWII likewise happened the same, with Hitler sending Goblinized humans to the camps as well. Japan's reaction is fairly similar. Stalin's Russia, however, takes advantage of their new metahuman comrades, pressing them into elite troops on the German front. Their losses, while still dwarfing those of the allies, are significantly smaller as a result. We drop 2 bombs on Japan still, leading to the Atomic age. Within 5 years, all the major world players have atomic weapon stockpiles.
- After seeing what metahuman troops can do in combat, post-war Soviet Union puts its focus into improving individual solders through cybernetics and genetic manipulation.
- Hermetic magic appears in the 1950s. McCarthy rallies against witches, not communists. The first dragons appear on November 3, 1954 - the same day the movie Gojira (Godzilla) is released.
- We get to the moon in 1963, not 1969. Flower power is everywhere; everyone's astrally trippin'. The Cuban missile crisis turns out differently; the missles fly, but disappear somewhere over the Atlantic. To this day, no one knows what happened. The cold war goes into full bloom.
- By 1970, cybernetics are commonly used to replace injured body parts. Elective modifications are still a few years off but are adopted quickly thanks to cheap Chinese and Japanese electronics flooding the market.. Home computing begins to take off.
- Datajacks, headware, and the Interweb hit the scene in the early-eighties. By 1989, you can't swing a dead cat on Wall Street without hittinng someone sporting a day-glow socket or two on the back of their necks.
- In the '90s, environmental pollution reaches critical mass. Shaman eco-terrorist organizations appear across the globe. Fearing a world-wide catastrophe due to the impending Y2K problem, the aging Internet is replaced with the sturdier, faster Matrix. The Soviet Union falls; decades of genetic research and experiments go missing. Soviet cyberzombie technology hits the black markets.
- In the early 2000's, we see global terrorism spiking. Nanotechnology takes off like a rocket. The race to a colonized Mars is on against China. Shaman and Hermetic scholars begin forecasting doom and gloom for December 12, 2012.
- The secession of the South was successful and far less bloody, but led to a cold war period lasting almost 100 years. Without the need to rebuild the South, more money and effort was spent on eliminating the Confederate dependency on Northern manufacturing. The Industrial revolution surged ahead faster than in our timeline.
- Bolstered by Confederate investments, Charles Babbage lives to see his analytical machine built in 1871. Although this doesn't officially begin the computer age, it does bump it up quite a few years.
- The Amerind uprisings of the 1880s was significantly more successful, thanks to the re-emergence of magic and the first Great Ghost Dance. The forced relocation of the plains tribes was brought to a screeching halt. The westward expansion was also greatly slowed. The tribes formed a loose coalition government to work with the Northern and Confederate states, although the NAN would be officially formed until after WWI.
- The Sherman Anti-trust act of 1890 just never happened, thanks to a few well placed lead slugs. The industrial robber barons ran wild across America. The Pullman strike in 1894 set a precident for corporations to be able to use deadly force to protect their assets. This was eventually passed into law in 1929, shortly before the market crashed.
- Speaking of which, the market crash of 1929 was widely believed to be caused by computer hackers. Why they did it is still a mystery.
- WWI happened pretty much as it did here. Multinational companies become officially recognized, thanks to their efforts in the war. The NAN is formed.
- Goblinization begins in 1936.
- WWII likewise happened the same, with Hitler sending Goblinized humans to the camps as well. Japan's reaction is fairly similar. Stalin's Russia, however, takes advantage of their new metahuman comrades, pressing them into elite troops on the German front. Their losses, while still dwarfing those of the allies, are significantly smaller as a result. We drop 2 bombs on Japan still, leading to the Atomic age. Within 5 years, all the major world players have atomic weapon stockpiles.
- After seeing what metahuman troops can do in combat, post-war Soviet Union puts its focus into improving individual solders through cybernetics and genetic manipulation.
- Hermetic magic appears in the 1950s. McCarthy rallies against witches, not communists. The first dragons appear on November 3, 1954 - the same day the movie Gojira (Godzilla) is released.
- We get to the moon in 1963, not 1969. Flower power is everywhere; everyone's astrally trippin'. The Cuban missile crisis turns out differently; the missles fly, but disappear somewhere over the Atlantic. To this day, no one knows what happened. The cold war goes into full bloom.
- By 1970, cybernetics are commonly used to replace injured body parts. Elective modifications are still a few years off but are adopted quickly thanks to cheap Chinese and Japanese electronics flooding the market.. Home computing begins to take off.
- Datajacks, headware, and the Interweb hit the scene in the early-eighties. By 1989, you can't swing a dead cat on Wall Street without hittinng someone sporting a day-glow socket or two on the back of their necks.
- In the '90s, environmental pollution reaches critical mass. Shaman eco-terrorist organizations appear across the globe. Fearing a world-wide catastrophe due to the impending Y2K problem, the aging Internet is replaced with the sturdier, faster Matrix. The Soviet Union falls; decades of genetic research and experiments go missing. Soviet cyberzombie technology hits the black markets.
- In the early 2000's, we see global terrorism spiking. Nanotechnology takes off like a rocket. The race to a colonized Mars is on against China. Shaman and Hermetic scholars begin forecasting doom and gloom for December 12, 2012.
| QUOTE (TeOdio @ Mar 31 2005, 12:12 AM) |
| Um, try reading the Patriot Act. If anything it has the ability to strip power from companies. Hello Frozen Assets! |
That's my point. Corps have power through sleeping with the government rather than having their own power, just like today.
| QUOTE (TeOdio) |
| BTW, I am a converted Muslim, and no one has locked me up yet for going to Masjid and having Middle Eastern friends. |
So? I've talked about blowing up power stations with fertilizer-and-fuel-oil bombs and haven't been locked up, but anecdotes do not evidence make.
~J
| QUOTE (Spookymonster @ Mar 31 2005, 12:55 AM) |
| If I re-wrote it, I'd set the whole thing in the present, but have an alternate history dating back to the American Civil War (approximately 1861- 65). |
That is perhaps one of the most freakishly awesome things I have ever seen. The world is no longer confined, and we can adjust things so that we're using cars, guns, and whatever that are identical to those today, just with cybernetic linkups. Characters could become agents for or against the Confederate States of America (CSA), or do whatever. Europe and much of the rest of the world would be far more accessible (just hop a Scramjet-which would work at this time), and a plague would slowly start to amass force in poor areas of the world. (VITAS being replaced by AIDS would allow for characters to not have to worry so much about being infected unless they do something stupid.).
I also like the ideas about the Soviets and cybertechnology. The soviets are well-known for their creation of less-than-pretty weapons such as anthrax bombs, and would doubtless spend a fortune on cybernetic enhancements (which would also make it much easier to quell rebellion.) Plus, Russia is well known for it's "grey market" even today, and it's a great place for characters to get decent cyberware on the cheap, as well as weapons, etc.
One thing I might like to know is if the computers in 1929 were mechanical. Electromechanical devices such as Eakin's ENIAC were viable at that time, and would only be usable by organizations with tons of money (like the NYSE.) People could have "terminals" consisting of an electric typewriter and a punchcard reader, allowing them to input tasks into the computer.
Maybe I'm overthinking this, but it might make an interesting alternative to the same-old bland conflicts between the Azzies and the good guys, bug spirits, and other such stuff players could recite from memory.
One minor modification I would like to make is to put the game 7 years in the future (2012) and set goblinization then. Hitler could have made a point of killing off the few with early SURGEs, but throwing metahumans into a "metahuman-free" game halfway through may make life very interesting for players, especially those playing characters very different from the metahumans they become. (Muggsy the short stack decker becomes Muggsy the good-looking 6'5" Elf; Eldrick the Hermetic-tradition "Face" becomes Eldrick the Troll Combat Mage who can sling spells with impunity.)
I'll have to wait 'till I get home and dig up my frantically scrawled, 3:00 am flavored notes (and turn them into something coherent), but I once wrote up a fairly detailed version of "Shadowrun: 1942" (at least I think that's the name I came up with for it) that I thought would be a fun setting. The short version is that Halley's passing by in 1910 caused a premature mana surge, and the Awakening happened a good century ahead of published versions.
It made the NAN a little more palatable (back in the very early 1900's that sort of thinking almost made sense), it made WWI an even more hellish battlefield that Europe was still reeling to recover from when a bunch of Immortal Elves started Nazi Germany (with IE-headed France instantly aside them, and Austria consumed as quickly as IRL) on it's crusade to take back the Sudetenland (this time aiming for their old Earthdawn-era stomping grounds, and with a little more stable leadership than Hitler provided). Let by a Dragon or two, Japan joined in the fray (and the very-much-third-class Italy was hauled along with them, even more a whipping boy of the supernaturally-led Axis than IRL)...Britain (backed by it's strange new druids, a Welsh dragon or two, and the valiant RAF or not) is constantly on the verge of falling to Luftwaffe and dragon attacks...
...and then Hestaby and (primarily) Dunkelzahn start to rally the US to counter, some crazy bastard painted like a clown starts training Allied spellcasters on how to counter powerful ancient-taught Axis magics, and things just get all messed up.
Recovered Atlantean/Thayan artifacts replace cyberware as the method for mundanes to keep up on the battlefield; crystal limbs and various Earthdawn-flavored (and decidedly unpleasant) Blood Charms give elite SS or SAS soldiers an edge over normal mortals, tommy guns and BAR's rule (in an era with no body armor), dragon and IE-trained combat mages frantically aim Fireballs at the vision slits in the sides of tanks, sniper Adepts play deadly games of cat and mouse in the shattered USSR cities that lay in the German's path (trying to wrest not only Asian natural resources, but Fourth Age power sights and relics, from Russia)...
I thought it'd be a good time. WWII and Shadowrun; two great tastes that go great together. Good, clean, Dirty Dozen flavored fun.
It made the NAN a little more palatable (back in the very early 1900's that sort of thinking almost made sense), it made WWI an even more hellish battlefield that Europe was still reeling to recover from when a bunch of Immortal Elves started Nazi Germany (with IE-headed France instantly aside them, and Austria consumed as quickly as IRL) on it's crusade to take back the Sudetenland (this time aiming for their old Earthdawn-era stomping grounds, and with a little more stable leadership than Hitler provided). Let by a Dragon or two, Japan joined in the fray (and the very-much-third-class Italy was hauled along with them, even more a whipping boy of the supernaturally-led Axis than IRL)...Britain (backed by it's strange new druids, a Welsh dragon or two, and the valiant RAF or not) is constantly on the verge of falling to Luftwaffe and dragon attacks...
...and then Hestaby and (primarily) Dunkelzahn start to rally the US to counter, some crazy bastard painted like a clown starts training Allied spellcasters on how to counter powerful ancient-taught Axis magics, and things just get all messed up.
Recovered Atlantean/Thayan artifacts replace cyberware as the method for mundanes to keep up on the battlefield; crystal limbs and various Earthdawn-flavored (and decidedly unpleasant) Blood Charms give elite SS or SAS soldiers an edge over normal mortals, tommy guns and BAR's rule (in an era with no body armor), dragon and IE-trained combat mages frantically aim Fireballs at the vision slits in the sides of tanks, sniper Adepts play deadly games of cat and mouse in the shattered USSR cities that lay in the German's path (trying to wrest not only Asian natural resources, but Fourth Age power sights and relics, from Russia)...
I thought it'd be a good time. WWII and Shadowrun; two great tastes that go great together. Good, clean, Dirty Dozen flavored fun.
| QUOTE (Sharaloth) |
| Australia... [tries to] ...work the australian outback into something resembling arable land by building canals, irrigation systems, aqueducts, etc. |
Ahah. Ahaha. AHAHAHAHAHA!
No offense intended, but I severely doubt it.
First you'd have to actually _get_ the damned fresh water. Australia is dryest continent in terms of surface water and the second dryest continent in terms of precipitation (Antarctica is the dryest). Massive desalinization plants on the coastline might work, but the power requirements would be pretty significant. I mean, we can barely keep rivers running on the coastline, where we get fairly regular rain.
Secondly, you'd have to move it inland, which is a) uphill all the way, and b) freaking hot. You're going to need a huge amount of infrastructure to get it there and in quantities that will actually mean something, and it'll all have to be enclosed. Water evaporates _quickly_ in thirty eight degree Celsius heat, especially when you consider how low the humidity is.
Thirdly, the local ecology would be devastated by the massive influx of water. Australia has been seriously dry for at least ten thousand years, and probably a lot longer. (Anyone care to correct me?)
Finally, the soil out in the Outback is really lousy, to tell the truth. It's not so much soil as hard-packed dust, sand or rock. It's loaded with various minerals which are toxic to non-adapted plants, there's very little in the way of nitrogen fixation and there's no real nutrients in the soil to speak of.
Now, I'm not saying these obstacles are insurmountable, but they may not be technically or economically feasible, even with a large amount of cheap immigrant labour. Massive scale aquaculture might be more effective, considering the size of Australia's coastline, but I'm not familiar with the technology or environmental demands.
In any case, the rest of your history is an interesting proposition, but "greening the Australian desert" is probably right out. On the other hand, _mining_ it is a different proposition...
Please excuse my nitpicking.
Snoof
Member in Good Standing of the Pedantic Society
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| Snoof Member in Good Standing of the Pedantic Society |
You mean pedant organisation.
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| That is perhaps one of the most freakishly awesome things I have ever seen. The world is no longer confined, and we can adjust things so that we're using cars, guns, and whatever that are identical to those today, just with cybernetic linkups. |
That's pretty much what I was going for. It pretty much eliminates the whole "if this is 60 years in the future, why don't we have ...?" complaints that pop up frequently. I also wanted to keep the key SR flavor elements (NAN, megacorps, Asian economies overtaking America), so I just reworked them into real-world events with a twist.
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| One thing I might like to know is if the computers in 1929 were mechanical. Electromechanical devices such as Eakin's ENIAC were viable at that time, and would only be usable by organizations with tons of money (like the NYSE.) People could have "terminals" consisting of an electric typewriter and a punchcard reader, allowing them to input tasks into the computer. |
Hmm.... hadn't really thought about it. Basically, I just shifted everything with computers up by 20 years. So yeah, I guess they'd be monsterous electrical devices using vaccuum tubes and punch cards, rather than purely mechanical devices.
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| No offense intended, but I severely doubt it. |
Offense totally taken!
You think the Aussie's wouldn't have thought of that? What do you think they're doing with the other half of the millions of refugees? They're building massive water purification plants in the middle of the desert and hooking them into the ocean via huge, snaking pipelines, as well as digging big pits to turn into reservoirs for the clean, purified water. There's no way Australia can feed all these people with the rest of the world going to hell in a shopping bag, they need farmland, and they need it now. Local ecology be damned!
Aquaculture, though, is an interesting idea, but it doesn't solve the problem of what to do with all these immigrant workers who can't afford to eat, and they don't have the food to feed them in any case.
Think 'make-work' project here, something to keep the refugees occupied in doing something until the Gov't can fix the problem permanently. In any case, it leaves Australia way too busy with its own problems to take a hand in the affairs of the rest of the world, though if it succeeds in making the outback bloom, then it gets to be the breadbasket of the rest of the world. Hell, if they do it well enough, they could create a self-sustaining system and turn off those expensive water treatment plants.
Spookymonster:
I love it! Give us more
I love it! Give us more
Sharaloth: There's a big connection between Australia and Israel.
Why wouldn't the Aussies use the Israeli tricks? Why bother with mass-labor-stuff?
Additionally, why take in the immigrants?
Why wouldn't the Aussies use the Israeli tricks? Why bother with mass-labor-stuff?
Additionally, why take in the immigrants?
Why wouldn't the Aussies use Israeli tricks? Well, look where it's gotten Israel (nuked). Why bother with mass-labor? Because mass starvation and riots are not good for the economy, and if you've got a ready-made workforce just dying to do something prodoctive, and have the ideas for projects anyways, it would be a useless waste to not have the mass-labor-stuff.
Why take in immigrants? 'Cause they can, and Australia's the only country left on earth with a sense of morality... I guess. It's a good move politically, that's about the best answer you're gonna get.
Keep in mind people, I made this stuff up as I was writing it. I have no clue what the economic, climactic or social conditions are in Australia. In fact, I know less about Australia than I do about ANY other part of the world, and that's saying a whole hell of a lot. I just needed a place to stick all the boat-people my trashing of the world would create, and Australia was the one place that seemed like it could fit them.
Why take in immigrants? 'Cause they can, and Australia's the only country left on earth with a sense of morality... I guess. It's a good move politically, that's about the best answer you're gonna get.
Keep in mind people, I made this stuff up as I was writing it. I have no clue what the economic, climactic or social conditions are in Australia. In fact, I know less about Australia than I do about ANY other part of the world, and that's saying a whole hell of a lot. I just needed a place to stick all the boat-people my trashing of the world would create, and Australia was the one place that seemed like it could fit them.
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