Here is one for you....... what's the deal with criogenics in 2065?

Is it big business or has it been shelved? don't you think it would be a good idea to get youself frozen and out of the way when things get abit cetchy? Or some big boss mogul needs to get out of the way for a few years, would make a good run to go and thaw a boss for cash?

Torz x

Brindell wouldn't be planning a neat way of skipping the 2065-2070 period, would she?

mmmmm ....... now you mention it??

torz x

With Genetech being able to recover from just about any type of disease or injury if you have enough cash, and Leonization being able to reverse the effects of aging, I doubt if cryogenics are still around save for eccentrics who want to "jump into the future" or the like.

Afterall, those who could afford cryogenics can just blow their cash on the previous two and continue about their daily business. Virtual immortality trumps sleeping your way into the future.

Hey, after sleeping your way to the top, it makes sense to sleep your way into the future....

/Corporate mentality.

Wouldn't it be possible to (if you were rich enough, anyway) develop a magical ritual that placed the subject in suspended animation? If so, it'd definitely be better than being frozen...

Even the best modern cryogenics today is not actually workable. The cryogenic proses actually would kill you.

The biggest problems are that the water in the cells expand bursting every sell in the body, the chemical they use to mitigate this is moderately poisonous (and they use a lot)

glycerine is what they use I believe (going of old science show), it is used in the frozen storage of single celled yeast in the brewing hobby, you expect a 50% death rate among the cells, this is acceptable in a yeast sample, even if you store it for longer than the recommended 5 years a 90% death rate among 100 thousand sells still leaves 10,000 viable cells witch if properly cared for will grow perfectly. The problem is many cells don’t absorb enough glycerine and burst when you frees them, many more absorb to much and are poisoned.

This is fine for samples of single celled organisms for relatively short periods of time. A complex organism will be harder to get an even application of glycogen or whatever else you choose to use, the death of 50% of cells evenly or in groups threw out the brain and other tissues of a complex organism (fish, mammal, reptile, bird) will be catastrophic, guarantied death, even 1% would probably kill if not leave massive brain and other tissue damage.

Lastly there is the problem of restart, even if you defrost the body with no cellular damage electrical activity in the brain is zero. You would need to develop some way to restart the brain comparable to a heart starter (that will not damage the brain), but even a defibrillator wont work with 0 activity, it puts the erratic jittering of the heart into a normal productive rhythm. If the heart has actually stoped a defibrillator will do nothing (without medical instruments there is no way to tell the difference).

If these tequniques had been developed a lot of things would be different in eth SR world. The first change would be in the biowear industry, clinics that perform biowear implant surgery will no longer have mashies to grow or maintain living tissue, they will store all implants in a freezer and defrost as required.

Operations can be much longer if the patent is put into cryogenic suspension first (3 days is perfectly acceptable) this would create the surgery option cryo surgery cost multiplier *rating+2 affect surgery lasts one additional day per rating, target number for surgery reduced by rating as surgeon may take his time, consult texts or colleagues during the surgery an even go home to bed halfway threw, max rating surgeons biotech (surgery) skill.

Personally I wont believe crio-suspension is practical until somebody takes a multy cellular organism such as a rat or frog in perfect health and freezes it for longer than it could survive without food an water and then produces the animal alive and scurrying around. Preferably without brain damage)

Edward

It seems reasonable that cryogenics would be feasible in the 2060's. Say you pump the body full of glycerine (or whatever else) to minimize the crystallization, and upon thawing, use nanites or specially engineered microorganisms to consume the glycerine. Use some of your favorite genetech and/or nanites to repair as much damage as possible, and fire 'er up. Replace defective parts with cloned bits or 'ware, and better than new.

Now you could argue that cryogenics would never work, given the metaphysical reality of Shadowrun. Once you're frozen, you're dead, and the soul would be long gone. Personally, I think it would be pretty cool to center an adventure or two around the PC's meeting someone from the 1980's. Maybe reviving the body after so long _would_ bring the soul back, but it would be angry and disjointed. Maybe the soul learns some crazy stuff out on the metaphysical planes.

Isn't there deep space (as in, interplanetary) space travel in Shadowrun? Or do they keep the astronauts in Simsense envorinments and their bodies in coma tanks like in Alien?

Also, this station will requite routine resupply runs - for example exchanging irradiated, radiation-sick, almost dead astronatus with new ones ... you know just what kind of stress solar radiation will put on a human being. And thus, there IS deep space travel after all.

Oh, and fusion power might make space travel faster, but we're still talking *years* here.

Ok this is whre i prove that i'm stupid. Being that the earth only takes a year to round the sun, Helios to stay on the other side would take the same. so even if you just took a "step off" the earth and stayed put it would take only 6 months for helios to get to you, cause you'd have to something about your zero Velocity compared to Helios and what it's doing.

Helios is on Earth's height? Thought it was closer to the sun ...

On Cryogenics...

Keeping a cool head

My brother-in law, a software developer, wrote the programs for an Atlanta cryogenics company, similar to the one above. Apparently, they can freeze you, but currently have no way of reanimating a person with the current technology.

Surely, in 60 years, they would've fixed that problem. I pity the poor guy that emerges from the year 2000 into the Fifth World, though.

What happens if they express while in cyro??

The tube breaks.

(ignoring complications such as frozen cells not having the metabolic capabilities neccessary to rebuild the human form into a troll)

"This is normal, though not for you!"

Oh wow, how to scare people the RIGHT way.

I guess they'd put an Elf into the wake-up chamber. Also introduces the reanimated to the 6th world, and propably wouldn't shock them that badly. Unless they put in a Night One or Wakiyambi, that is.

Well you could leave orbit and orbit the sun opposite to Helios' direction ... that'd arguably be the fastest way. Gather additional speed by riocheting around Luna, and maybe it'd really only take you a month or so ...

Europa (the most remote of SR's space locations) could resonably be acheived in 8 or 9 months. 2001 A Space Odyssey puts the journey at 257 days. NASA's proposals for nuclear (fission) missions to Mars in the 2010-2020 timeframe are 4 to 6 months. I would assume by 2060 that would be somewhat shorter.

While you can flash freeze and revive very small body mass animals (like frogs etc) the problem is freezing the human body rapidly enough is just not doable. The varying rates of freezing with the body pretty much destroy tissues in larger animals. Even if you can by some miracle of science sustain the body long enough to place extremely cold substances throughout the body in order to acchieve even flash freezing the ability to defrost the body is also extremely difficult.

Simply put cyrogenics is extreme psuedoscience.

That'd be me what suggested it

And I admitted my mistake in my last post. But as I said, some people apparently don't know as much, as I have seen numerous references to goblinized dwarves and elves here at Dumpshock, including a couple in the last few days.

Sorry, overread.

Anyway, yeah, I have encountered that too, even in my gaming group. Ah well. You just gotta tel'em.

That's cool. After all, I originally misinterpreted your post.

hermit wrote:

Yes, obviously. I forgot to mention that, thanks for clarifying it.