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Tal
Due to one of my players misunderstanding what a cyberzombie is, I started thinking. Would it be possible to create a drone out of a dead body, that looked reasonably alive? I assume it'd need some kind of artificial heart and brain to coordinate matters. So, workable or not?
Sandoval Smith
I think there have already been several topics along this line already this year. Just do a search for 'cyberzombies' and 'anthroform' and see where that gets you.
Edward
It would be impractical in the case of true death however it would seem feasible to install a snake eyes package, skill wires package and drone pilot module into a brain dead individual and allow it to operate as a drone.

Edward
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Edward @ Apr 6 2005, 04:04 AM)
It would be impractical in the case of true death however it would seem feasible to install a snake eyes package, skill wires package and drone pilot module into a brain dead individual and allow it to operate as a drone.

Edward

Depends on the extent of brain damage. Neurons tend to go through some extreme atrophy and "die-back" after brain death, and I doubt that a simple wirejob can substitute for it. If you grafted a significant portion of live neural tissue to compensate, perhaps it would work.

I'm thinking more along the lines of those cloned "extra bodies" that are grown for a Super Platinum DocWagon contract. It would have a hojillion drawbacks, but the singular advantage of being the equivalent of a biological drone. It's a lot more feasible than animating a brain-dead person, for sure.

For a better understanding at what happens after a human dies (brain only or everything), I highly recommend the entertaining non-fiction book "Stiff", by Mary Roach. While less of a scientific book and more of a book for (morbid) entertainment, it presents the facts in a highly readable and historic manner.
Edward
I was thinking death of the higher brain functions with the autonomic nervous system still functioning. So your tech implants only need to take over voluntary muscle control and senses wile leaving breathing and the heart rithem to the lower brain.

Probably a state not dissimilar to what the spare bodies you mentioned grow in.

Edward
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Edward @ Apr 6 2005, 08:55 AM)
I was thinking death of the higher brain functions with the autonomic nervous system still functioning. So your tech implants only need to take over voluntary muscle control and senses wile leaving breathing and the heart rithem to the lower brain.

Probably a state not dissimilar to what the spare bodies you mentioned grow in.

Edward

Actually, no. The differences would be pretty drastic. Most headware relies on having those living neural connections to be intact in the brain, and once a person is "brain dead", those neurons cease to function and rapidly atrophy and die, as opposed to a cloned body, which would have nascent living neuronal cells that haven't been stimulated to make connections. It's a world of difference biologically, and would be the difference between a viable bio-drone and simply living meat.
Edward
The specific cyber wear that allows for this doesnít interact with the higher brain all that much. To the extent that I donít think it is listed as headwear.

My interpretation at least has skill wires taking input from a chip and interfacing with the lower brain or directly to the spine and peripheral nervise system to receive tactile sensation and control muscle groups. The only connection to the higher brain is where the skill wires receive instructions to activate and deactivate and what to actions to attempt as well as a feed back to show the difficulty of the task (demolitions 2, defuse a rating 12 bomb, not a good idea). This section will have to be re wired to the drone pilot module.

I also assumed that higher brain function was suppressed in the clone bodies, there are still enough morals in the 6th world that protesters can be an annoyance and all it would take is 1 shadow run to retrieve a cloned body that is in fact a viable human being to cause a public relations nightmare.

Edward
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Edward @ Apr 6 2005, 09:16 PM)
My interpretation at least has skill wires taking input from a chip and interfacing with the lower brain or directly to the spine and peripheral nervise system to receive tactile sensation and control muscle groups. The only connection to the higher brain is where the skill wires receive instructions to activate and deactivate and what to actions to attempt as well as a feed back to show the difficulty of the task (demolitions 2, defuse a rating 12 bomb, not a good idea). This section will have to be re wired to the drone pilot module.

Honestly, I think you need to wetware active to get the hardware to work. "Lower brain" functions are just the RAS, autonomic nervous system, and cerebellum, and none of these facilitate movement. Once neurons in the cerebrum "die back" due to damage (Wallerian degeneration), there's nothing innervating the muscles anymore. When the higher brain goes, so does the nerve connections at the level of the spine, except for primitive reflexes.

I'm not saying that you couldn't do it. I'm saying that in an individual who becomes brain dead, it isn't likely that you would be able to. Now, if you pith an individual specifically for the purpose of making a drone, instead of using an already brain-dead person, it's a much different story... you can stave off the neuronal death and maintain the connections needed for movement through nanotechnology. I'm just saying in a "dead" person, you couldn't do it, after about 24 to 48 hours.
Edward
Why would you need to connect to the movement sections of the brain. Connect directly into the nerves that carry the signals to the muscles, ether in the brain stem, spinal collum or the peripheral nervous system.

Edward
Critias
Just imagine the protest groups if you did something like that to some poor brain-dead soul stuck on life support, though !!
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Edward)
Why would you need to connect to the movement sections of the brain. Connect directly into the nerves that carry the signals to the muscles, ether in the brain stem, spinal collum or the peripheral nervous system.

Edward

I'm trying to tell you that once the higher order neurons die, the neurons below the brainstem atrophy and the muscles no longer are innervated.
Demosthenes
QUOTE (hahnsoo)
QUOTE (Edward @ Apr 7 2005, 03:02 AM)
Why would you need to connect to the movement sections of the brain. Connect directly into the nerves that carry the signals to the muscles, ether in the brain stem, spinal collum or the peripheral nervous system.

Edward

I'm trying to tell you that once the higher order neurons die, the neurons below the brainstem atrophy and the muscles no longer are innervated.

What about skillwires?
It's hard to tell from the essence cost and description of their function if they simply(!) interact with the brain or if they actually bypass the CNS entirely in some way... (unlikely).

I brought up an idea somewhat similar to what Hahnsoo proposes...
Most of the discussion is headed in another direction, but I believe it might be pertinent. cyber.gif
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