Ok so there it is my first poll (I think) so your thoughts you concerns your ideas?
I think I myself prefer the Intelligence split into Logic and Perception choice but that is just me.
Why because the word Perception when said tells me exactly what the attribute does then again to a degree so does Intuition.
Now understand if they go with Perception that word is pretty direct in meaning and limits exactly what can be done with said attribute.
While on the other hand Intuition works on the same idea but allows for more in it's meaning as an attribute.
So while in my opinion both words work I guess it comes down to the fact I like Perception better.
So untill we get a better look at what the attribute is going to cover it is hard to say which word is better to use but nothing says I can't like one word over the other for now.
Please understand this is just me seeing what the opinions of others are NOT an attack on any of the developers or playtesters.
I now return you to you regularly scheduled posts.
Full Version: New Attributes
Has anyone given thought to the fact that the Attribute is named Intuition because there might very well be a (new) Skill named Perception?
While that might be true but..... I would think seeing as they listed other new attributes I.E.
the intelligence split makes and new attribute
the quickness split makes a new attribute
then there is the new edge attribute
So if they are gonna tell us of these new attributes why would they leave perception out when listing new attributes?
Edit fixed my wrong word placement.
the intelligence split makes and new attribute
the quickness split makes a new attribute
then there is the new edge attribute
So if they are gonna tell us of these new attributes why would they leave perception out when listing new attributes?
Edit fixed my wrong word placement.
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| Has anyone given thought to the fact that the Attribute is named Intuition because there might very well be a (new) Skill named Perception? |
Heh I figure that more than a few people are going to get up in arms over the thought that there might be completely new active skills in SR4.
Now there's a nice idea.
<Sarcasm>
With concentrations in Spot, hear, Smell, Feel, etc.. !!
Then (If edges and flaws are still around) if you take Near sighted that only affects your Sight concentration skill!
Yaaaayyyy It's much simpler now!
</sarcasm>
Yeehaa
With concentrations in Spot, hear, Smell, Feel, etc.. !!
Then (If edges and flaws are still around) if you take Near sighted that only affects your Sight concentration skill!
Yaaaayyyy It's much simpler now!
</sarcasm>
Yeehaa
| QUOTE (Casazil) |
| While that might be true but..... I would think seeing as they listed other new attributes I.E. the intelligence split makes and new skill the quickness split makes a new skill then there is the new edge skill So if they are gonna tell us of these new skills why would they leave perception out when listing new skills? |
To the best of my knowledge, no one's spoken of skills at all. Two attributes have been split to form four attributes. Another attribute's been added. Nothing's been said yet about skills.
| QUOTE (Casazil) |
| While that might be true but..... I would think seeing as they listed other new attributes I.E. the intelligence split makes and new skill the quickness split makes a new skill then there is the new edge skill So if they are gonna tell us of these new skills why would they leave perception out when listing new skills? |
You are confusing attributes and skills.
As far as I can tell based on post here there are 4 physical attributes (Body, Quickness, Reaction and Strength) and 4 mental attributes (Charisma, Intuition, Logic and Willpower) plus 2 special attributes (Magic and Edge)
I think what fortune is trying to get at is that there might be an active skill named perception that is linked with intuition that forms the basis of perception tests.
Now that I have fixed my blunder above (sorry about that) and have read other posts yes a Skill of perception might just work out.
| QUOTE (Vuron) | ||
Heh I figure that more than a few people are going to get up in arms over the thought that there might be completely new active skills in SR4. |
I'd have a lot less issue with a Perception skill than with a Combat Sense skill used as you described it in that other post. In fact I'd have little problem at all with a Perception skill.
| QUOTE (blakkie) | ||||
I'd have a lot less issue with a Perception skill than with a Combat Sense skill used as you described it in that other post. In fact I'd have little problem at all with a Perception skill. |
Yeah I understand. The combat sense skill I described pretty much was designed to meet a belief that initiative will be determined by a test of some combination of attribute + skill vs TN 5.
Now the other systems I built on top of that fundamental design choice are a possibility given the statement that the process of determining initiative is definitely changing from the additive process of SR1-3 but they are just a possibility not a definite
| QUOTE (Vuron) |
| As far as I can tell based on post here there are 4 physical attributes (Body, Quickness, Reaction and Strength) and 4 mental attributes (Charisma, Intuition, Logic and Willpower) plus 2 special attributes (Magic and Edge) |
Don't forget Essence and Initiative.
| QUOTE (Jon Szeto) | ||
Don't forget Essence and Initiative. |
I've never really considered essence a stat but rather a mechanic besides money that keeps people from pumping huge amounts of cyberware into thier bodies. Outside of a few critters and a handful of spells essence is almost never treated as a normal attribute.
Now they could change something in the new edition and have skills linked to essence like empathy + essence tests but there seems to be no indication of that are current
As for initiative I'm pretty much assuming that initiative is determined by some variation of attribute + skill vs TN 5 currently rather than being some secondary stat. Considering it could quite easily disappear as an attribute I didn't want to include it
| QUOTE (Jon Szeto) |
| Don't forget Essence and Initiative. |
Neither of these have been mentioned officially as Attributes, and out of the two, only Essence has been mentioned as being still part of the game. So, is Initiative actually going to be considerd as an Attribute?
considering he's one of the devs...
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| considering he's one of the devs... |
Last I heard was that initiative was still in a heavy state of flux so while it might be safe to assume it's going to be an attribute of some sort there seems to be a lack of absolute certainty concerning it.
| QUOTE (Vuron) |
| Now they could change something in the new edition and have skills linked to essence like empathy + essence tests but there seems to be no indication of that are current |
Essence + Stealth for trying to sneak past the cyberware scanner? The more ware you have, the less dice you have to roll?
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| Neither of these have been mentioned officially as Attributes, and out of the two, only Essence has been mentioned as being still part of the game. So, is Initiative actually going to be considerd as an Attribute? |
I think it's safe to say that. Seeing as Mr. Szeto is on the design team. I doubt he'd pop in and say "you forgot..." and then list things that weren't actually on the plate. That's Bull's job.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| considering he's one of the devs... |
Yes I know. I was just asking if he was saying anything in an official capacity.
show 'em your dev hat, jon!
| QUOTE (mfb @ Apr 13 2005, 02:37 PM) |
| considering he's one of the devs... |
....and his current Location....
Hmm, Initiative as an attribute.... Rob didn't mention it on the list though when he mentioned that Reaction was going to become an attribute instead of a ['ware modifiable] composite of attributes.
| QUOTE (RunnerPaul) | ||
Essence + Stealth for trying to sneak past the cyberware scanner? The more ware you have, the less dice you have to roll? |
Actually not that bad of an idea but I'm still betting that rather than having alot of flexibility in rolling different attributes with skills that they will be implicitly linked. While many games do allow you to do stuff like electronics + perception to determin if you detect that stealth fighter that style of unlinked skills breeds a very complex game whereas a system where stealth is alway linked with quickness makes GMing a bunch easier.
| QUOTE (RunnerPaul @ Apr 13 2005, 02:41 PM) | ||
Essence + Stealth for trying to sneak past the cyberware scanner? The more ware you have, the less dice you have to roll? |
Wow! I just saw Essence + Sorcery for casting...and I think I like the idea.
EDIT: Yes, this means Sorcery would be linked to Essense and not Int. Although admittedly linking it to a Magic attribute would make more sense.
| QUOTE (blakkie) | ||||
Wow! I just saw Essence + Sorcery for casting...and I think I like the idea. |
I was assuming that it was going to be magic + sorcery for casting as well everyone has an essence score. Considering that magic and essence are directly linked though you could argue that the concepts are pretty damned similar.
I'd still prefer magic + sorcery and magic + conjuring to essence + magic skills but that's because it would tie into the whole purchasing you magic stat up to 6+
Heh - if essence is still around - Maybe you'll have to buy it in levels at char gen
| QUOTE (Eldritch) |
| Heh - if essence is still around - Maybe you'll have to buy it in levels at char gen |
I was thinking about that. Not that you'd need to buy it at creation, but that you could use Karma to improve it to make more room for 'ware. Thus non-awakened characters wouldn't have the same power ceiling they do now (although the new Edge attribute should be able to soak up all the karma they can dump into it).
| QUOTE (Patrick Goodman) |
| Two attributes have been split to form four attributes. |
Well, 3 attributes been splitted in 4 is more like it
.
| QUOTE (Jérémie) | ||
Well, 3 attributes been splitted in 4 is more like it . |
Er...no. Quickness has become Agility and Reaction. Intelligence has become Intuition and Logic. Two have become four. Care to tell me what the third one was?
| QUOTE (Patrick Goodman) | ||||
Er...no. Quickness has become Agility and Reaction. Intelligence has become Intuition and Logic. Two have become four. Care to tell me what the third one was? |
I think he's talking about Reaction, which was a derived "attribute" before.
| QUOTE (blakkie) |
| Yes, this means Sorcery would be linked to Essense and not Int. Although admittedly linking it to a Magic attribute would make more sense. |
Nitpick: Sorcery is linked to Willpower in SR3, not Intelligence.
I think it would be better to use Magic + (apprpriate magic skill) for sorcery, conjuring, and probably enchanting. Otherwise, what's the point of having Magic as a purchasable Attribute?
Dunno. To encourage characters with low-Force spells? To reduce the importance of initiation to the Awakened? To broaden character diversity beyond the current yes/no nature of Awakened characters?
I can see the merits of your argument. My only question is: what would Willpower do if Magic is the linked Attribute?
I can see the merits of your argument. My only question is: what would Willpower do if Magic is the linked Attribute?
About the same as Body does? In SR3, Body is only linked to Athletics. Otherwise it is only used to resist damage and disease. Maybe they'll link a couple of skills to Willpower, and keep it to resist Stun and Mana (or even all?) spells.
Point.
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