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Ancient History
Your average person won't have a lot of cyberware.

That sounds like a profound statement of the blindingly obvious, but consider it for a moment. For an average household, a piece of completely legal cyberware can consume most of the yearly budget, even on an installment plan.

Chipjacks and datajacks, at 1,000 nuyen.gif apiece, might be fairly common among middle-class families (and explain why they're more prone to BTL use and abuse), but a low-income family would struggle to cover the cost of basic replacement cybereyes so that their little girl could see.

Cybereyes are likely the second-most common implant after datajacks with middle-class or higher families. At 5,000 nuyen.gif, cybereyes and a few mods are more or less as affordable as a car.

Cyberears and basic communications gear (Rating 1) are also handy features that your basic middle-class family might find worthwhile.

But consider cyberlimbs. Unless you get a BIG insurance settlement following a horrible accident, buying even the most basic, unadorned, obvious cyberlimb costs 75,000 nuyen.gif -that's three times what basic transplant limb costs to grow and attach.

Unless you're part of a megacorp or national military, a cyberlimb is a sign that you're probably richer than shite, into something illegal, or both.

Bioware is generally too expensive for the general populace, but also more attractive. Aside from cosmetic bioware, you can get very basic upgrades that feel completely natural after installation: basic synthacardium, extended volume, and symbiotes. Maybe not the high-level stuff, but more than enough for Jane Average.

Transplant surgery negates the need for most bioware as well. Why pay out 15,000 nuyen.gif on Synthacardium to strengthen your ailing heart when for the same price you can have a whole new one grown and implanted?

Outside of price, you'll notice that most of the low-end cyberware and implants are totally invisible once the sutures heal. Sure, you can see Little Jimmy's datajack, or the tinted cybereyes, or even the tuffs of hair he had implanted on his ears, but you can't see his synthacardium, fingertip compartment, or the low-light mods or retinal clock he put in. Yeah, Linebacker Timmy has pretty obvious dermal armor (Man, look at him take those hits!) but the boosted reflexes will surprise you (Look at that kid go!)

The most important thing to consider about your average joe with cyberware is that they feel subtly superhuman. Buy your kid a math SPU and watch them speed through their Calculus classes, sure; but take a look at someone living with a spacial recognizer, thermographic vision, or a basic mnemonic enhancer. Shadowrunners take these augmentations for granted, but most of them pull down more in a single job than middle-class families do in a year.
Tal
I read somewhere that cyber-replacement for limbs lost on the job is a common perk for most corps, and that if a corp-rep thinks it'll make you more efficient to have a math SPU, then you'll have one implanted.
blakkie
Your average person won't have a lot of QUALITY cyberware. You are discounting the used market or the sub-SOTA stuff that is 10 years old, or made to a decade old standard.

By 2064 datajacks have been around for 15 years. And they never improve the quality or managed to manufacture them cheaper? Of course, but the book Datajack price is for SOTA. Just like IRL the-PC-you-want has been $3000 for the last 15 years, so has the-Datajack-you-want been nuyen.gif 1000. But IRL there are people that plunk down a 1/10 of $3000 for an outdated but still functioning 5-year old laptop. Why wouldn't similar markets develop in 2060's?
blakkie
QUOTE (Tal)
I read somewhere that cyber-replacement for limbs lost on the job is a common perk for most corps, and that if a corp-rep thinks it'll make you more efficient to have a math SPU, then you'll have one implanted.

But at book prices you have to be a LOT more productive, or be damn expensive labour to make it worthwhile.
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (Tal)
I read somewhere that cyber-replacement for limbs lost on the job is a common perk for most corps

Yeah, but how many people loose limbs in industrial accidents in today's world? It's a somewhat rare occurance, though probably a little more frequent in developing nations where governmental ocupational safety regulations are more lax.

Still, even if you assume that in SR's time, due to megacorporate influence, saftey regulations worldwide were set to match the developing nations' lax ones, I doubt it'd be frequent enough to matter.
ef31415
I would imagine that a lot of corps give out cyber enhancements to their employees -- but the cyber remains corp property and returnable on termination of employment. Kind of gives an extra motivation for company loyalty. I would imagine it costs the corp a lot less than the standard retail, let alone street price.

==Ed
FrostyNSO
QUOTE (RunnerPaul)
Yeah, but how many people loose limbs in industrial accidents in today's world? It's a somewhat rare occurance, though probably a little more frequent in developing nations where governmental ocupational safety regulations are more lax.

Obviously not many incidents in 2060 otherwise there would be a lot of cyber-replacement fingers and thumbs on the market.
Fygg Nuuton
the cost in the book does not reflect the cost for a corp
Cynic project
AH, if you really get down to it, how many gangers are going to have smart gun links? Reflex shite, or decks?
Kagetenshi
A lot of them, they need it to protect their Panther Assault Cannons.

~J
Crimsondude 2.0
QUOTE (Ancient History)
Your average person won't have a lot of cyberware.

That sounds like a profound statement of the blindingly obvious, but consider it for a moment. For an average household, a piece of completely legal cyberware can consume most of the yearly budget, even on an installment plan.

Well, this actually came up the other day when I took a look at the description of MBW again and called major bullshit.

Fly-by-Wires doesn't work in any way like MBW does. If MBW actually was based on the technology of FBW, then it would be most useful and appropriate for people who are walking tanks because it would require separate computers for each limb (plus the head and torso) keeping them in "spaz" mode while the main computer in the brain was the central hub making sure that each of the limbs didn't do the walking equivalent of "flying apart." For people without cyberlimbs, the essence cost might be somewhere near as hellacious as it is for MBW, but... There is no logical reason whatsoever for it to keep the brain in a constant seizure mode (or for it to not be turned on and off, for that matter). What it should do is interfere with the neural connections between the limbs and the brain, and be used in civilian capacities (i.e., the very low-essence version that provides no benefits) to compensate for someone who has suffered a catastrophic spinal injury. Kind of like the French device and technology in prototype mode I happened to catch on a rerun of Ripley's last night, coincidentally.

I agree that the prices for cyberlimbs and a great deal of cyber is just for "game balance" purposes, which is why Wired Reflexes still has the same essence and price costs as it did over a decade ago IRL.

Cyberlimbs always seemed to me to be, by the '50s even, the 'ghetto' method of replacing limb capability if you lost your arm. After that (or even the mid-2040s when SR officially mapped out the entire genome and its functions) if you lost a limb, then cloned was the way to go, if for no other reason than because most people probably don't want a chunk of metal, plastic, and myomers where their arm used to be. Cyberlimbs should be cheap and abundant on poor trash (and runners. Same diff). Cloned limbs should be expensive (like biotech... It's just better.)

But I don't write the rules or create the setting. If I did, though, "street" would have a hell of a different meaning than it ever did.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (RunnerPaul)
QUOTE (Tal @ Apr 16 2005, 02:04 PM)
I read somewhere that cyber-replacement for limbs lost on the job is a common perk for most corps

Yeah, but how many people loose limbs in industrial accidents in today's world? It's a somewhat rare occurance, though probably a little more frequent in developing nations where governmental ocupational safety regulations are more lax.

Still, even if you assume that in SR's time, due to megacorporate influence, saftey regulations worldwide were set to match the developing nations' lax ones, I doubt it'd be frequent enough to matter.

Factory accident's aren't common but it is fairly common for workers to intentionally shave off pieces of their fingers to get the workers compensation bonuses.

Cyber-limbs are more expensive than cloned limbs, but a fingertip compartment is probably cheaper than a cloned fingertip.
Kagetenshi
Speaking as someone who has had more than his share of moderately (but temporarily) debilitating hand injuries, that's some serious dedication to not doing their job.

Though to be fair, their recreation probably involves a lot less typing than mine does.

~J
Swing Kid
The modern counterparts to cyberware generally cost more (comparitively) than the Cyberware listed in the books. In alot of cases, insurances cover the costs when a patient's health requires the surgery. Granted, they generally don't cover the costs for enhancement surgery (not that there are alot of options there)

Just a few from the net:
Heart Transplant - $311,000
Bone Marrow Transplant - $150,000 to $250,000
Hip Replacement - $10,000
Knee Replacement Surgery - $10,000

I had optic nerver surgery over 10 years ago that cost my insurance company $23,000. I'll bet that a number of others on this forum have had expensive surgeries that are comparitive to the costs of enhancement surgery in 2070. The point is good however that these surgeries are easier (financially) on those with money, at least here in the US.

Maybe since it is now the UCAS, Canadian health care took over...
FrostyNSO
I wonder if that means Canadian taxes took over too?
Kagetenshi
Can't be, there's no way the Shadowrun world would move in a positive direction on either of those issues.

~J
FrostyNSO
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Can't be, there's no way the Shadowrun world would move in a positive direction on either of those issues.

~J

LMAO grinbig.gif
frostPDP
Well, the point about SOTA is right. What is SOTA? I presume its the latest, greatest stuff, so in my viewpoint Deltaware is SOTA.

Old IPODS carried, what, 5 GB? Now they carry how much, 20? 50? Yet they take up more (or less) space, no?

So yeah, what I would do is for civilians, first of all have the cyberlimb strength be less than above-average. So a person with a cyberarm might have a 2 or 3 as opposed to 4.

Also, it might have less room for extras or stress points. I would say that the book cyberware in 2060 is just guidelineish, and that most people aren't getting themselves 100,000 nuyen (AKA military grade) synthetic cyberlimbs.

Then again I think price-wise the cyberlimb one is more a game balance issue than a relatively sane price. Its like the notion a ganger would have anything more than 1 datajack, just one, and a cheap used one that that - Unreal, but fun. My advice is just goof the rules a bit, use the book price as player-character street indexed and all price. Unlike a car, which might cost 20,000, a cyberlimb isn't 5 times more expensive to produce en masse when the technology is clearly being developed -today-.
Vuron
Modern surgery costs can be pretty insane but if your PC comes from a background with actual medical insurance I figure you might see people from SIN holding backgrounds having some basic cyberware.

Also look at stuff like payment plans for cyber replacement surgeries you can see people doing payment plans for thier datajacks etc like parens do with braces.

Further look at what people are willing to spend on plastic surgery today.
Crimsondude 2.0
QUOTE (frostPDP)
Old IPODS carried, what, 5 GB? Now they carry how much, 20? 50? Yet they take up more (or less) space, no?

Before they unveiled the 5th gen iPods, it was 40. Now, it's 30.

The 60 GB is 50% thicker and heavier (weighs as much as my 15 does with the skin on it).

But your point is well taken. It's more apt to discuss this in terms of not the iPods themselves, but rather the HDDs that you store information on. IIRC, there is a 120GB model the same size as the one the 60GB iPod uses.

But I digress... A lot!
Edward
Replacement cyber or biowear parts are probably covered under some form of medical insurance. Dock wagon products as listed donít do it but corporate types probably have medical insurance closer to what we have today. You pay your premiums (or your employer dose as I believe is more common in America) every year and when you need to go to hospital the insurance compony picks up the bill (possibly with a co-payment) middle class families can probably afford insurance that will cover corrective cyber or biowear (new eyes for there blind child, new heart if it is needed) but nothing more than that.

,middle clas would not be able to afford (or justify) much in the way of augmentation ware. A data jack is all I would expect them to get. A middle class family would start saving for there Childs data jack shortly after birth in much the same way many families put away for a childís tertiary education from the time they are still a baby. (I know not everybody dose this but those that donít wont get data jacks as soon).

This is why my rich kid mage with loads of educational and cosmetic wear (just under 1 essence lost) came from a decidedly rich family.

Edward
Eyeless Blond
Even families that have Low lifestyles should be able to afford a datajack, even an alphaware one, pretty easily. I know people that regularly drop $1k at casinos or on their dogs or cars every couple of weeks (while living in a tiny ramshackle apartment; go figure); it wouldn't take much to get their kid a datajack for their birthday or something.

Now, a Mnemonic Enhancer, or a Math SPU; *those* would require a bit of saving. I could see families that place a big emphasis on their childrens' education getting stuff like that just before high school, particularly the Asian families around here that sink tens of thousands a year into private schools, tutors, etc. Things like a Cerebral Booster or an Encephalon are in most cases to Essence-hungry and expensive for most middle-class families, though.

Cosmetic bioware, well, other people have already said how much people are willing to pay for breast augmentation and nosejobs these days. Things'll be even worse in the 2060s, where going under the knife for sugmentations is not only socially acceptable and encouraged but easy, quick, and relatively painless.

And cyberlimbs are ridiculously expensive; the worst part being that the price doesn't even include the operation or the post-op expenses, as per M&M. For the price of a single cyberlimb you can clone both your arms, have them transplanted, e healed up completely in a hospital, then go on a nice long Hawaian cruise while you're recovering. nyahnyah.gif No medical insurance is going to overlook this difference in expense.
Penta
Question....The DJ may be 1k...How much is the surgery cost?
blakkie
QUOTE (Penta)
Question....The DJ may be 1k...How much is the surgery cost?

By book installation is included.
Edward
Before you can have a data jack installed you will need the following

Medical profile 20nuyen * medicine skill
Surgical planing 100nuyen per mega pulse
Implant surgery 40nuyen * biotech skill

Assuming they go to a average private provider the average skill will be 7 and prices will be normalised for that value.

The surgery plan will be 144MP (could somebody with errata available check that for me the plan should not be the most expensive part of the surgery by an order of magnitude nor should it be the same wether you get a data jack or a VCR installed)

So medical profile 140nuyen
Surgical plan 14,400nuyen
Implant surgery 180nuyen

The target number for this surgery is 4 in a clinic, 3 if it is conducted in a hospital skipping the plan is only +1 to the TN so if conducted in a hospital the chance of success is still high especially if we bring in a magical doctor with biotech 4 to assist (cost 660 nuyen) and bring the target number down by 2. (you might think that is cheep for a magical doctor but remember, he probably dose 10 of these procedures every day). -1 to TN for an assisting doctor that is not awakened (cost 160nuyen)

Lastly remember that some of the negative options matter a lot less to a middle class person than a shadow runner.

Essence cost increase. With a data jack that is .005 more essence lost, what dose it mater to somebody that is never going to push the limit,

fragility, how often do you make stress tests on a data jack if your not a runner

sensitive, only comes up when you test for cyber wear stress, how often is that to a middle class person.

So if the surgeon only gets one or 2 successes the patent will probably not know of the laps. (remember it takes 3 successes to avoid a negative option).

Finally. The net cost will probably be 1500 including the implant itself and the needed medical procedures. You can spend a lot more but it is probably not needed.

Edward
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Speaking as someone who has had more than his share of moderately (but temporarily) debilitating hand injuries, that's some serious dedication to not doing their job.

Though to be fair, their recreation probably involves a lot less typing than mine does.

~J

Nope, just some dedication to getting extra money.
My father used to work at a tire factory. People were employed to shave off excess rubber from the tires. These tires were spinning at high speeds in order to kade the job more efficient. All you had to do was hold the blade in place and the machines would do all of the work.
However, if the blade was held at the wrong angle it would be snagged and dragged along with the rotating tire, often slicing right through the wroker's finger.

The company policy was that workers got the rest of the day off and $500 for ever lost joint. It was a quick was to make extra cash around christmas, but they were always back at work the next day.

I'm not sure, but I believe they eventually automatated the process.

SR Megacorps are probably have similar policies.
Cakeman
QUOTE

Cybereyes are likely the second-most common implant after datajacks with middle-class or higher families. At 5,000 , cybereyes and a few mods are more or less as affordable as a car.


I don't know... the rules and novels make a big deal about the mental impact of cyberware. Now this is subjective, but think... eyes? Replace my own?

I think that cyber that add functions are more likely to be popular then those that replace, and then I do mean that cybereyes replaces normal eyes no matter what nifty plugins you install alongside them. Sure, that new phone? Goes into my head. That builtin mp3-player/headware memory+speakers? Into my head. Gouge out my own eyes and replace them with metal? Hmm... chop of my arm and replace it with chrome? Nah... not unless I have to.

But I do think chipjacks and datajacks will be the most common ones. Chipjacks... mmm... cyber.gif
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