I think it's a little weird, the sequence they're releasing the new books in. Weird from a marketing perspective.
Allegedly, it's going to be SOA and SOLA next, then SC, then SR4. Which, apparently, is a design to make the SO books suffer.
A lot of SR people are going to say, "Why do I want to spend $25 a peice on a pair of books that will almost immediately be made partly obsolete by SC, in a system that is going to change so radically in a few months that who knows if my players and I will want to continue in it?"
Full Version: Sequence of Releases
EDIT: We ain't got no nothing 'gainst no double negatives 'round them here parts. 
Shadows of Xxxx books traditionally have little in the way of crunch (rules stats). Hopefully Fanpro will publish any timeline info between 2065 and 2070 that will affect those areas, and off we go. Look at how old the other Shadow of Xxxx books are and they are generally fine. *shrug* It's advancement of the timeline, not stats, that eventually make them obsolete. So while not optimal, i understand how it would be extremely difficult for Fanpro to alter their development now to move them forward to 2070....and then they'd have to sit on them (actually work on them) till a good time after the SR4 release.
Shadows of Xxxx books traditionally have little in the way of crunch (rules stats). Hopefully Fanpro will publish any timeline info between 2065 and 2070 that will affect those areas, and off we go. Look at how old the other Shadow of Xxxx books are and they are generally fine. *shrug* It's advancement of the timeline, not stats, that eventually make them obsolete. So while not optimal, i understand how it would be extremely difficult for Fanpro to alter their development now to move them forward to 2070....and then they'd have to sit on them (actually work on them) till a good time after the SR4 release.
I belive that the statement: "Any books that are primarily source material will still be useful" from the first installment of the FAQ covers FanPro's vision for how SoA and SoLA will intereact with 4th edition.
| QUOTE (Zen Shooter01 @ Apr 17 2005, 05:06 AM) |
| Allegedly, it's going to be SOA and SOLA next, then SC, then SR4. Which, apparently, is a design to make the SO books suffer. |
Actually the correct release order is Loose Alliances (imminent release), Shadows of Asia, Shadows of Latin America and then System Failure.
| QUOTE |
| A lot of SR people are going to say, "Why do I want to spend $25 a peice on a pair of books that will almost immediately be made partly obsolete by SC, in a system that is going to change so radically in a few months that who knows if my players and I will want to continue in it?" |
Regarding your doubts, as has already been mentioned here, these books will be essentially fluff. In fact 80% of the material in these books will remain relevant in SR4, because they are essentially setting books whose contents has been designed so that it's equally valid whether you are playing 206x, 205x or 2070. No doubt there will be changes, particularly to organizations and countries currently (206x) going through transitions but the vast majority of the material will remain consistent, up to date and relevant.
Much like most of the books since DotSW these will also possess some tidbits that foreshadow System Failure, but they are by no means essential, anymore than say SOTA64 or SoE were.
The main reason these are going ahead is to complete the picture of the Sixth World under SR3 (admittedly a Shadows of Africa might've been nice but we can't have it all) and because their contents (with very few exceptions) will remain valid in 2070 as they are in 206x. They will also provide the most complete picture of the Sixth World to date
FanPro wanted to provide some development and in some cases closure to several current ongoing plots, before SR4 kicks in, and in that regard LA, SoA and SoLA do have a quite a few surprises. Before wrapping up SR3, Loose Alliances (the sourcebook formerly known as Sixthworld.org) gets to detail many of the most important non-corporate and non-underworld players (and now that I think of it some of those too) in the Sixth World. Then Shadows of Asia and Shadows of Latin America in quick sucession, adding to the overall global picture and also building/wrapping/developing existing plotlines
As to their sell points, having read them, I believe that the contents of Loose Alliances and the Shadows of books will speak for themselves. The former is going to be almost as essential as Corp Download and Sprawl Survival Guide for certain aspects of the Sixth World and will not be replaced anytime in the foreseeable future. The latter fill in certain areas of the World (what you're not going to get the books where they finally cover Japan and Amazonia?
) and also continue to develop related metaplots (obvious ones include the PPG, Russia/Poland, Yakut, Japanese Emperor, Tibet, Lung/Ryumyo, Phillipines, Aztechnology, Yucatan and Amazonia...). While some may be recapped in future SR4 products, the vast majority won't. Will SR4's announcement impact out-the-door sales of these books? Undoubtedly. FanPro might take a hit on these but at least its offering closure and an (almost) complete global overview for those player who are reluctant to move on to 2070 will have most of the world to play with. I 'm sure that beyond the hardcore collectors who buy everything (myself included) a lot of people will have doubts about what I'm saying, at least until SR4 comes out. But I'm pretty sure Rob's counting on the fact that those reluctant to buy now will be picking them up later to get the whole picture...
Then there's also the issue of whether or not everybody who buys SR4 jumps to the new ruleset and date immediately or will make the transition slowly in-game.
As I've mentioned elsewhere, we're also discussing the possibility that any setting rules included in these books (and the most recent ones) that aren't included in the new core rulebooks be updated to SR4 via free web supplements on Shadowrun homepage, which I think would solve any remaining issues with buying these books.
I have always wondered whether the SimVirnonment mentioned in SOTA63 already was a foreshadowing ...
I understand that the SHADOWS OF books are going to still be useful in 4th. My point is that a lot of players are wary of 4th edition, and unsure if they'll want to continue in it. Therefore, they will put off buying SOLA and SOA until SR4 comes out. This will cause poor initial sales for the SHADOWS OF books.
By the way, I erroneously refered to SYSTEM FAILURE as SC, thinking the title was SYSTEM CRASH.
By the way, I erroneously refered to SYSTEM FAILURE as SC, thinking the title was SYSTEM CRASH.
Oh, and regarding setting rules getting updated for SR4...one of my favorite sourcebooks is TARGET: WASTELANDS. I definitely want to see those rules updated.
| QUOTE (Zen Shooter01 @ Apr 17 2005, 02:04 PM) |
| I understand that the SHADOWS OF books are going to still be useful in 4th. My point is that a lot of players are wary of 4th edition, and unsure if they'll want to continue in it. Therefore, they will put off buying SOLA and SOA until SR4 comes out. This will cause poor initial sales for the SHADOWS OF books. |
Personally I don't see this specific issue as a problem. From what we've been seeing here on Dumpshock even those people who are adamant about not moving on to SR4 are saying they will continue on playing SR3 and maybe even converting any nice SR4 stuff over. I don't see most people stopping playing although some might put off buying these books until SR4 comes out and reassures them they're usable.
But as I've said above. I think the content of these books speaks for itself. I went through Loose Alliances recently and can honestly say its going to rank up in my Top 5 SR books of all time. Shadows of Asia and Shadows of Latin America have so many surprises, developments and twists they're just cool books to own. I know that won't reassure many people especially coming from one of the authors but I'm pretty sure people who've like the Shadows of series so far are going to appreciate these too.
Too bad they won't be continued with the final installment. Synner, can't you bribe/charm/force Rob to consider this? 
| QUOTE (Zen Shooter01) |
| By the way, I erroneously refered to SYSTEM FAILURE as SC, thinking the title was SYSTEM CRASH. |
IIRC, System Failure is going to basically be a combination of the previously announced Critical Error and System Crash.
Either way I look forward to the plot.
I'll make a deal with the SR development team. It goes like this. I'll buy SoLA and SoA on the condition that they post an errata-style update of the books shortly after the release of SR4.
This can't be too hard, right? If the books are 80% fluff anyways, how hard can it be to update the 20% crunch--things like the nitty gritty of tests for sneaking into Imperial Japan or tangling with free spirits in Amazonia. Let's face it--these rules, though, "minor," are important, and will contribute to folks getting a lot out of the new books (to say nothing of feeling better about shelling out 50 big ones to get them).
That's my offer. I hope if flies.
This can't be too hard, right? If the books are 80% fluff anyways, how hard can it be to update the 20% crunch--things like the nitty gritty of tests for sneaking into Imperial Japan or tangling with free spirits in Amazonia. Let's face it--these rules, though, "minor," are important, and will contribute to folks getting a lot out of the new books (to say nothing of feeling better about shelling out 50 big ones to get them).
That's my offer. I hope if flies.
I don't think they said it was 80% fluff, 20% cruch. It's that 80% is still valid 5 game years later.
Actually from past reference, I'd say the amount of crunch in Shadows of books is closer to 5% than 20%.
The comment regarding what would remain valid was made specifically in response to a question about setting changes making these books obsolete (as opposed to the source/crunch ratio). As I've said before, we are looking into possibly converting the crunchy bits of these books, but nothing's confirmed yet. Part of the problem is that a lot of the rules are environmental and although Matrix and Border stats might work, other stuff like Power sites and unique phenomena would have to wait for any potential changes to come in Street Magic.
The comment regarding what would remain valid was made specifically in response to a question about setting changes making these books obsolete (as opposed to the source/crunch ratio). As I've said before, we are looking into possibly converting the crunchy bits of these books, but nothing's confirmed yet. Part of the problem is that a lot of the rules are environmental and although Matrix and Border stats might work, other stuff like Power sites and unique phenomena would have to wait for any potential changes to come in Street Magic.
I understand that getting location books up to speed might take a little while, as new advanced rules are hammered out (e.g., magic, "hacking," etc.). I'm just saying that the developers have got to look out for their fans. If I know updates are coming (even if it's just to that 5% crunch), I'll feel a lot better.
Obviously, I don't need your name signed in blood on the skin of a redheaded virgin. I'd just like to know that the sentiment of updating material is there, and that interest exists within the developer community.
Obviously, I don't need your name signed in blood on the skin of a redheaded virgin. I'd just like to know that the sentiment of updating material is there, and that interest exists within the developer community.
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