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Edward
Outdated tech in 2070.

Obviously the entire matrix network has been redesigned so the old cyber decks will be so much scrap meatal but are they going to rewrite history so things like the vehicle control rig never existed.

If they donít rewrite the history there will still be people out there with old style VCRs and the knowledge to maintain there RCD and old style remote control vehicle modules. Small (and low importance) operators may not want the expense of upgrading to the new slandered, preferring to continue as an island of the old system not being able to interact with the new system properly but not needing wanting to. Also by 2075 I can see this old hardware providing a perverse kind of security for your network, in spite of the fact that it is easy to hack almost nobody has the hardware any more to do it.

How hard do you think it will be to create rules for these legacy systems? Do you think there worth creating?

Edward
Grinder
Who plays riggers anyway? wink.gif Maybe there are some conversion guidelines in the sr4 bbb. I wouldn't start with making my own rules unless i'd read the original ones in the new bbb - if there are any.
Fygg Nuuton
i never liked the VCR anyway
hermit
I play a Rigger, Grinder. They're pretty useful actually, if you play them right. At first, my group groaned I'd be useless, but in time, my heavy firepower has saved their backs more than once (and if it hadn't been for me, we'd all have died in the last run - Red Samurai are damn tough).

It'd be well worth creating, actually. I hope thefre'll be, at the very least, conversion rules that make sense.
Grinder
I never said they're not useful. But rigger3 is a pain in the ass imo. And my group seems to think in a similar way. wink.gif

I don't know how they'll turn out in sr4 when melting with deckers. Maybe they are more playable and get some improved (read: easier) rules for custumize a vehicle.
Edward
I suspect the conversion rules they arte going to put on the website for all characters will include changing to the new system, Removal of the VCR and installation of whatever replaces it and swapping around the necessary skills. A combat rigger really can not afford to be that far behind the SOTA.

I was thinking if I run SR4 I may include a facility still being run using the old system. No mater.

Edward
NightHaunter
I was in a team with 2 of them. With the decker in the matrix and the mage on astral it was just the sam and the worlds supply of drones that went in.
Scary stuff.
But I assume that some VCR's would be operational depending on how the plot goes.
Nikoli
Shoot, My character concept for a sam with drone fire support might be doable in SR4, I'm looking forward more than ever now.
Edward
I just came up with a possible reason why all old style drone networks where decommissioned.

The new wireless matrix interface is going to need a lot of bandwidth; the old frequencies used by riggers may well have been reallocated to the wireless matrix interface. Thus any old style rigger network would be noise on that network and banned. Riggers would be up in arms about the change, no national government could impose that kind of change and retain power (certainly not in a democracy) but the corporate court could.

And I will maintain that in SR3 a drone rigger was worth 3 samys in a fire fight but had some difficulties with sublty

Edward
hermit
Firepower rarely is subtle, but an arachnoid drone in a thin air vent certainly is. Especially when you coat it's feet with gecko tape. Also, scooters and crawlers make excellent disposable recon and suicide attack vessels (one CF surely holds 3 kilos of C-12 ...). And finally, a hovering Condor-II really is helpful when invading a building on the fly.

Grinder, I play much by simplified house rules that essentially treat drones as NPCs (or PCs if fully rigged). Helps a bunch. and vehicle customisation isn't that hard, it just needs a lot of looking up stats, and a few rolls. Like cyberware implantation by M&M rules.
Grinder
No one i know plays be the full rules from rigger3. Doesn't speak for the rules in the book right? wink.gif
mfb
i do, actually. i've even developed more advanced rules (which i was going to submit for SOTA:65, but nooooo....) for closer integration of Matrix, mobile subscriber, and meatworld units.

but i'm crazy. and as much fun as i have with the rules, i want to see them slashed and burnt to make room for better, quicker ones.
Capt. Dave
I use the full rules from R3, and I like 'em. Of course, I'm probably crazy, too.
Grinder
Ok: no sane people are playing riggers with the full ruleset. Or need rules for naval battles in shadowrun. biggrin.gif rotfl.gif
Shadow
QUOTE (Grinder)
No one i know plays be the full rules from rigger3. Doesn't speak for the rules in the book right? wink.gif

Well I didn't use all the rules. but I used the ones that pertained to the characters I was running, and the ones I was playing. I had a wheelman/drone rigger in a game that was pretty useful.

Grendel know's the rules like the back of his hand, and he uses them to great effect.

I never had any naval stuff though. I kind of always thought that crap was an homage to Anime and all there huge Robotech style battles.

They probably wont do it but a lot of guns would be outdated. The Redline while expensive is an excellent alternative to pistols. I don't see why a rifle, smg, and sniper rifle versions would not be available.
Botch
QUOTE (Edward @ Apr 19 2005, 03:55 PM)
I just came up with a possible reason why all old style drone networks where decommissioned.

The new wireless matrix interface is going to need a lot of bandwidth; the old frequencies used by riggers may well have been reallocated to the wireless matrix interface. Thus any old style rigger network would be noise on that network and banned. Riggers would be up in arms about the change, no national government could impose that kind of change and retain power (certainly not in a democracy) but the corporate court could.

And I will maintain that in SR3 a drone rigger was worth 3 samys in a fire fight but had some difficulties with sublty

Edward

Old-style rigs are illegal? Aren't we supposed to be shadowrunners, almost by definition illegal inofthemselves. Cheap scrap equipment that actively interferes with somebody's funky new system, great!

Just how easy are Microsoft finding it to push everybody onto XP and they have a single corp monopoly strangle-hold on international communication.

Just where are supposed to get tens of thousands of highly trained, highly invested personnel from to replace existing riggers? The shear amount of investiture in equipment globally should make it impossible to do a complete swap-out within 5 years without a global catastrophic failure and that would cause more of a change to the game world than I care to imagine.

This is THE BIGGEST CONCERN I have over SR4.

- Why on earth does the DSF spellchecker not have shadowrunners in the spellchecker?
Critias
QUOTE (Edward)
And I will maintain that in SR3 a drone rigger was worth 3 samys in a fire fight but had some difficulties with sublty

Just depends on the 3 sammies. wink.gif
Austere Emancipator
QUOTE (Grinder)
Or need rules for naval battles in shadowrun. biggrin.gif rotfl.gif

A good thing, too, because the naval rules in Rigger 3 (Revised) are pretty screwed.
Nikoli
QUOTE (Botch)
[QUOTE=Edward,Apr 19 2005, 03:55 PM]
- Why on earth does the DSF spellchecker not have shadowrunners in the spellchecker?

I asked that same questions here.
Edward
QUOTE (Critias)
QUOTE (Edward @ Apr 19 2005, 09:55 AM)
And I will maintain that in SR3 a drone rigger was worth 3 samys in a fire fight but had some difficulties with sublty

Just depends on the 3 sammies. wink.gif

Depends a lot more on the drones.

Take a steal lynx increase armour to 12 and mount an LMG with full recoil comp & SL2 integration, pilot 3 and auto soft interpretation (gunnery 3 & clear sight 3 installed). The drone rigger can easily have 3 such drones

Allowable for starting characters if starting vehicles can be customised (I think this is farley standard, the book dose not suggest disallowing it).

The only starting char available weapon that can hurt the drones is a great dragon ATGM and most samys donít carry those. There is no armour available that will allow a Sammy to soak a full auto burst from a LMG and there chances of dodging the 10 round burst coming there way is none and bucklies. There only advantage may be that they have an action to run while the drones lock on.

Later in the game the samys have AV ammunitions for there small arms and hardened military armour.

The drones now have armour 22 drive by wire (improves load and handling to cope with the armour) and APDS (or AV) ammunition for there HMGs.

The result is exactly the same

If he can close to melee wall hacker and similar builds are capable of hurting the drone but the rigger should be able to open up at range in most cases and those are highly specialized builds. My drones are still relatively standard. Especially the starting build

Edward
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